F'dup Chapters in American History(The Trump Years) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[Aximili86]

History is repeating. Within 20 years. If you think "regime change" means anything except war, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Err. It can happen through war. It just won't with Iran. Iran can fight back, we're not going to pre-emptively go in there and "bloody nose" them like with Saddam whose conventional military was pretty feeble.

Israel would though, should Iran throw a tantrum and pursue the nuke program anyway because of their deal getting shredded. And they'd do it early, they've pulled this stuff before.

 

[Sithborg]

Israel and Saudi Arabia, who have Trump eating out of the palms of their hands, are really, really eager for war with Iran. And then you add in Bolton the warmonger and Pompeo, the recipe is there for disaster. Do not ignore it.

 

[Aximili86]

If war with Iran happens, it'll be because Khamenei decides "**** it, I want the bomb" in the face of this.

He won't, though.

Also, Pompeo's been a big deal in diplomacy on the NK side. Who's ignoring what now?

 

[Sithborg]

If war with Iran happens, it'll be because Khamenei decides "**** it, I want the bomb" in the face of this.

He won't, though.

And Iraq had WMDs.

 

[chamber-music]

Iranian president said if the other partners on the deal are willing to stick with it then so will iran. The EU is committed to the deal. Not sure if trump is crazy enough to start a beef with the EU over this.

 

[Sithborg]

If war with Iran happens, it'll be because Khamenei decides "**** it, I want the bomb" in the face of this.

He won't, though.

Also, Pompeo's been a big deal in diplomacy on the NK side. Who's ignoring what now?

And now, is there any reason for NK to trust us in any potential deal?

 

[Aximili86]

And Iraq had WMDs.

They did. Just not nukes. But this has been over a million times.

As for NK, they're dealing with a non-lame-duck president, of course there's reason to think it'll last for the foreseeable next-few-years. Let's be honest, anyone knew if Trump got in he'd scrap this. They just couldn't wrap their head around him actually winning and didn't think it'd be something they'd have to face. That's sort of their problem at a certain point, not his.

And Chamber, good for the EU if they want to stick to it, it's their prerogative the same way scrapping it is Trump's. *Shrugs* No ill-will there, if they can make it work they can make it work, go for it.

 

[chamber-music]

I find it hilarious how they complain about the evil Iranian regime while rolling out red carpets for the Saudis who are pretty much bombing Yemen to the stone age and blocking access to aid for civilians.

Plus the 9/11 attack was done mostly Saudis.

 

[Dr Lee]

Iranian president said if the other partners on the deal are willing to stick with it then so will iran. The EU is committed to the deal. Not sure if trump is crazy enough to start a beef with the EU over this.

Yes he is... though the EU are a bunch of idiots... so they'll back down sooner or later

 

[Aximili86]

I find it hilarious how they complain about the evil Iranian regime while rolling out red carpets for the Saudis who are pretty much bombing Yemen to the stone age and blocking access to aid for civilians.

Plus the 9/11 attack was done mostly Saudis.

Rogue religious-zealot Saudis, not "sent by the government" Saudis like the Iranian killings of U.S. soldiers through proxies. Apples & oranges, but you know this.

As for Yemen, yeah, 'cause those Houthis are such stand-up innocent guys.

 

[redhawk23]

America is ceding it's role as a world leader. Other countries will he more than happy to fill that vacuum.

 

[redhawk23]

They did. Just not nukes. But this has been over a million times.

As for NK, they're dealing with a non-lame-duck president, of course there's reason to think it'll last for the foreseeable next-few-years. Let's be honest, anyone knew if Trump got in he'd scrap this. They just couldn't wrap their head around him actually winning and didn't think it'd be something they'd have to face. That's sort of their problem at a certain point, not his.

And Chamber, good for the EU if they want to stick to it, it's their prerogative the same way scrapping it is Trump's. *Shrugs* No ill-will there, if they can make it work they can make it work, go for it.

If every other country in the deal wants to continue on while the US attempts a return to sanctions , that either puts the US in a position of being completely ineffective or at odds with all of those other countries. We don't win anything from this.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I find it hilarious how they complain about the evil Iranian regime while rolling out red carpets for the Saudis who are pretty much bombing Yemen to the stone age and blocking access to aid for civilians.

Plus the 9/11 attack was done mostly Saudis.

But we do business with the Saudis, so its all good. All the "terror-funding" fear-mongering is pure BS, smoke and mirrors, and our relations with the Saudis proves it.

 

[chamber-music]

Trump keeps talking about how the Obama deal gave Iran money like it was cash from the American tax payer. It was Iran's own money that was frozen in sanctions. The united states didn't pay Iran like trump tries to make it sound.

 

[Aximili86]

But we do business with the Saudis, so its all good. All the "terror-funding" fear-mongering is pure BS, smoke and mirrors, and our relations with the Saudis proves it.

The U.S. does business with Iran too, what's your point? Yes, the lion's share of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi. They were Bin Laden crony extremists, they weren't sent to do it by King Fahd. The Iranians killing U.S. troops in Iraq and elsewhere were organized & affirmed by the Ayatollah & Co through their major proxies. It's not the same thing.

 

[chamber-music]

Rogue religious-zealot Saudis, not "sent by the government" Saudis like the Iranian killings of U.S. soldiers through proxies. Apples & oranges, but you know this.

As for Yemen, yeah, 'cause those Houthis are such stand-up innocent guys.

The religious zealots exist because Saudia Arabia has been promoting and exporting wahhabism for decades. It is Saudi state sponsored Islamic fundamentalism that inspired the likes of al Qaeda.

 

[Aximili86]

You...do realize Osama loathed the Saudi Royalty as much as he did the west, right? Accusing them of becoming too western, modern, material, and even supporting U.S. assets at work against Saddam through the 90s?

Let's not act like these two elements were in cahoots together to surreptitiously **** over the U.S.

Yep, the ruling Saudis are involved in some pretty shady ****. They're not "Israel? KABOOM!" Admiral-General Aladeen like Khamenei though. They're not actively killing U.S. troops, or intentionally ****ing us over internationally. They just have next-to-no respect for human rights more generally, but that's like a third of the world. Wouldn't be a UN if that were the accepted threshold for cut-offs.

 

[SV Fan]

Trump keeps talking about how the Obama deal gave Iran money like it was cash from the American tax payer. It was Iran's own money that was frozen in sanctions. The united states didn't pay Iran like trump tries to make it sound.

Republicans know their base is to stupid to realize this. I wish they would be called out on it more

 

[redhawk23]

John Kerry put out a statement. Honestly the day after the election I paused and thought 'Damn how must Kerry be feeling right now."

Whatever problems it might have had, the Iran deal was a goddamn diplomatic achievement and one that was hard fought. For Kerry it could have been a lasting legacy at the end of a long career of leadership.

https://mobile.***********/JohnKerry/status/993932444859600900/photo/1
https://mobile.***********/JohnKerry/status/993932444859600900/photo/1
With Trump seeking to do nothing more than just reading the actions of the Obama administration that mean reneging on partnerships and deals that were made in good faith and engaged with the rest if the world. It means doing little but ceding American leadership and isolating us from our own allies and destroying progress with our enemies. As we very seen with her Paris climate accords, the Pacific trading deal and now this, other countries are more than happy to just let us cut ourselves out of the loop.

If Itand decides to carry on in the deal with the EU and others that will just mean those other countries get to enjoy being able to normalized relations and having a whole other country available for trade and commerce.

 

[samsnee]

The word of the United States is only as good as its last President.

 

[Tempus Fugit]

This (backing out of the Iran deal) is what the disintegration of U.S. foreign diplomatic credibility looks like.

Fortunately, with the continued backing of England, France, Germany, Russia & China it's unlikely that any serious changes will happen with regards to the rest of the world, but the act of backing out of the Iran nuclear deal is just another in a long line of examples of the gross incompetence of the current administration.

Still, Trump wants a war, or at least the threat of a war. It makes for good T.V. ratings I suppose.

 

[MaceB]

If the US reinstates sanctions, I imagine Iran will start back up immediatly. We’ve given up the high ground. Why wouldn’t they?

 

[samsnee]

Obama was called a dictator but a dictator wouldn’t have made his legacy so vulnerable.

 

[MaceB]

Obama was called a dictator but a dictator wouldn’t have made his legacy so vulnerable.

Great point! As far as dictators go, Obama’s did a terrible job.

 

[Tempus Fugit]

If the US reinstates sanctions, I imagine Iran will start back up immediatly. We’ve given up the high ground. Why wouldn’t they?

Maybe/Maybe not, remember that the U.S. was only one player in the deal and the other nations involved have no interest in backing out.

In my opinion it's more likely that they'll see the U.S. withdraw as an opportunity to cash in and invest without a rich competitor getting in their way.