F'dup Chapters in American History(The Trump Years) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[MaceB]

Also while we had reporters in North Korea.

OMG! I had no idea that that was the case. That's.... that's honestly a new low. Say whatever you've got to say.... but putting innocent Americans at risk? ... Oh man.

 

[Aximili86]

Ehh, I don't know about this move, hard to say on the face of it.

On the one hand, you don't really want to sit down with the guy when the rhetoric's been escalating again and heated words have been exchanged, a little cooling-off period might be to an advantage. But a meeting should definitely happen, at least give Kim a chance to see a little reason and follow through on some dismantling if he's sane enough to do so.

But I guess at least he didn't wipe it totally off the table, the letter says he's still open to meeting (even "I look forward to meeting you") and is fairly deferential & polite with a lot of the language. Even thanks him over the hostage release.

*Shrugs* Hope it happens at some point though. A delay might be warranted here after the last few days, but it'd be a mistake to outright take a meeting off the table. The letter doesn't give that impression though.

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah, really tough for it to happen when one side is acting like a mob protection racket.

That's us by the way.

Letting our allies know about it beforehand would have been the wise thing to do, as well.

 

[MaceB]

Letting our allies know is bare minimum!

 

[Deck Rickard]

Throw these summit coins on top of the pile of Trump stakes and other worthless crap he's slapped his name on.

I seriously wonder if the real reason Trump canceled the meeting is because Kim Jong Un appears slightly taller than him on this coin.

 

[Aximili86]

Yeah, really tough for it to happen when one side is acting like a mob protection racket.

That's us by the way.

Yeah champ, it's all been one-way. NK hasn't been blustering all week personally insulting the Secretary Of State and the Vice President or anything.

That's not to say Trump should have cancelled it (even temporarily), but I can sort of see the logic. It's a bit of a slap on the wrist, delivering on the "I'm willing to walk away if we don't think you're serious on this" stuff. Risky, but ehh, Kim might come around. So long as it's not a "we're not going to meet with you at all, diplomacy done" (which it's not), could prove marginally fruitful.

 

[redhawk23]

Trump wants to blame "angry rhetoric" from Kim Jong Un for the reason for the cancellation but even if N. Korea expressed anger, it would only be in response to the tone Trump and co. have taken. As soon as the summit was announced, Trump wanted to take a victory lap, assuming that he would get whatever he wants out of the deal. Others like Pence and John Bolton have been outright hostile toward N. Korea in the press. Bolton went as fart to say that the U.S. was seeking a "Libya solution" to North Korea. You know Libya, where the leader was depose and killed and we've left it wide open as a failed state ever since. Yeah, real friendly tone coming to the table. Just the best diplomacy. Pence deserves any insult thrown his way. He's an awful representative.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yeah champ, it's all been one-way. NK hasn't been blustering all week personally insulting the Secretary Of State and the Vice President or anything.

That's not to say Trump should have cancelled it (even temporarily), but I can sort of see the logic. It's a bit of a slap on the wrist, delivering on the "I'm willing to walk away if we don't think you're serious on this" stuff. Risky, but ehh, Kim might come around. So long as it's not a "we're not going to meet with you at all, diplomacy done" (which it's not), could prove marginally fruitful.

You're like our very own Devin Nunes.

 

[Limonade]

Yeah champ, it's all been one-way. NK hasn't been blustering all week personally insulting the Secretary Of State and the Vice President or anything.

That's not to say Trump should have cancelled it (even temporarily), but I can sort of see the logic. It's a bit of a slap on the wrist, delivering on the "I'm willing to walk away if we don't think you're serious on this" stuff. Risky, but ehh, Kim might come around. So long as it's not a "we're not going to meet with you at all, diplomacy done" (which it's not), could prove marginally fruitful.

If Bolton and Pence just shut their trap and acted like diplomats for once... maybe the meeting could have been saved. Really... it's like NK isn't paranoid already. And even if the result ended up being the same... at least we would have came out better than the NK. Now? It's obvious that both sides are to blame.

How is this administration going to get anything done when they show little tact in talking with the press and the public. It just... ugh!

 

[MaceB]

How is this administration going to get anything done when they show little tact in talking with the press and the public. It just... ugh!

Also, how will they get anything done if they run from every fight? Trump campaigned as a fighter... but he seems to want to choose his own battles, and they're always the petty ones. At the first sign of difficulty, he bolts.

Maybe this wouldn't be such a big deal if the Trump administration hadn't already taken a victory lap... minted coin and all. Without North Korea peace talks... Trump is basically back to being an ineffectual president. He put a lot of his chips on this one.

Now...I do think Aximili is right that NK will come back. This just sounds like Trump negotiation style to me.... always gotta be on top. The second that NK put doubt on the process and Trump realized he had no leverage... he jumped ship. Because big boy has to be on top... can't be embarrassed... best to just call if off so you can say it was your choice. But Kim wants an agreement, or it seems like he does. All he has to do is go to the President and say he still wants to do it, and I'm sure Trump will agree. With Trump, it's all about ego.

 

[galmorzu]

Trump campaigned as a fighter... but he seems to want to choose his own battles, and they're always the petty ones. At the first sign of difficulty, he bolts.

Isn't that how bullies work?

 

[Limonade]

Isn't that how bullies work?

lol. Pretty much.

 

[Fading]

You were saying, Cap'n Smug?

On a personal level, the hypocrisy annoys me. A month ago you were asking a mod to ban someone for making a similar comment to you.

Anyway, this extreme defense of Trump in every area is the type of behavior that worries me. Not just from the quoted price range, but just in general.

They keep the argument centered on what Trump did/didn't mean. Meanwhile, where's the argument of whether a PRESIDENT SHOULD say it?

Should a president call Mexican immigrants rapists, and murderers? Should he insult physical appearance? Should he call for people to be shot (Bergdahl)? Should he even call people animals?

At the end of the day a president should be above that type of rhetoric. Trump has lowered the bar so low he's normalized the Jerry Springer side show in the White House.

YOU can be OK with calling people animals, insulting their appearance, call for shots to the head, asking for bullets dipped in pigs blood. A president shouldn't.

A president isn't just supposed to play tough cop, especially in the way he is. A president also is supposed to bring people together, and set an example. Even if he didn't mean it, even if it wasn't a dog whistle, some will take it that way.

By always making it the other, he emboldens the racists. I have my very strong opinion on whether Trump is racist or not. However I feel though, that doesn't go into the argument of whether it's ok for a sitting US president to continuously say these things. Even if his followers eat it up.

 

[Aximili86]

It's not defending Trump per se, man, I didn't vote for the guy. And disagree with this move on the summit about 80%. Just think it's fair to acknowledge the letter was pretty civil compared to the usual Trumpisms, he says he hopes they can work it out and meet in future, thanks him for releasing the hostages, and highlights how he wants to avoid any deterioration into conflict.

This wasn't a big "**** you, no deal will be done", people can disagree with the move and still see that. For all we know they'll reschedule for August or September or something, everyone'll keep their polite faces on next time around and it'll happen.

Might not, too, sure. But it's not like the door's been closed off.

 

[Sithborg]

With Bolton calling the shots, good luck with that.

 

[Limonade]

It's not defending Trump per se, man, I didn't vote for the guy. And disagree with this move on the summit about 80%. Just think it's fair to acknowledge the letter was pretty civil compared to the usual Trumpisms, he says he hopes they can work it out and meet in future, thanks him for releasing the hostages, and highlights how he wants to avoid any deterioration into conflict.

This wasn't a big "**** you, no deal will be done", people can disagree with the move and still see that. For all we know they'll reschedule for August or September or something, everyone'll keep their polite faces on next time around and it'll happen.

Might not, too, sure. But it's not like the door's been closed off.

But even his letter is a bit pompous... what's the point of going over the fact that we have better nukes than them and we can wipe them out? I mean it is true... yet, we've heard enough of this rhetoric through the tweets between the two leaders--but doesn't that also give the NK a feeling that letter wasn't a true gesture of generosity?

I mean... it's putting SK in an awkward position with all this going on, at the same time. Our president isn't truly grasping the consequences of it until after he said it. That's not a way to lead.

It's like me saying "I hope you come back to me, even though I can beat that crap out of you to the point of being a vegetable... but thank you for everything you have done for me. xoxoxox"

 

[Aximili86]

But even his letter is a bit pompous... what's the point of going over the fact that we have better nukes than them and we can wipe them out? I mean it is true... yet, we've heard enough of this rhetoric through the tweets between the two leaders--but doesn't that also give the NK a feeling that letter wasn't a true gesture of generosity.

It's like me saying "I hope you come back to me, even though I can beat that crap out of you to the point of being a vegetable... but thank you for everything you have done for me. xoxoxox"

Yeah, I dunno. Reagan kind of did similar stuff with the U.S. technological edge (obviously he was more tactful & professional about it, but by Trump standards this was pretty low-key). Might have an effect though, that whole "think twice" thing in case Kim's been having an inclination of going the other way.

Still seemed more carrot than stick as an overall document though, felt like quibbling over the last week and figuring it's probably not a great time to do it while both a little p*ssed at one another.

Doesn't make it the right move though, absolutely. But with Trump's own personal lack of discipline, might have even been for the best in case he said/did something stupid over in Singapore, or Kim did the same.

 

[Limonade]

Yeah, I dunno. Reagan kind of did similar stuff with the U.S. technological edge (obviously he was more tactful & professional about it, but by Trump standards this was pretty low-key). Might have an effect though, that whole "think twice" thing in case Kim's been having an inclination of going the other way.

Still seemed more carrot than stick as an overall document though, felt like quibbling over the last week and figuring it's probably not a great time to do it while both a little p*ssed at one another.

Doesn't make it the right move though, absolutely. But with Trump's own personal lack of discipline, might have even been for the best in case he said/did something stupid over in Singapore, or Kim did the same.

Oh absolutely, it will have an effect... the question is whether it'll be a good or bad one. As of now, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[chaseter]

No more best hairdo summit. I am displeased.

 

[chamber-music]

With Bolton calling the shots, good luck with that.

Bolton seems like a liability to anything diplomacy related. The guy seems itching to go to war with multiple countries.

 

[squeekness]

I seriously wonder if the real reason Trump canceled the meeting is because Kim Jong Un appears slightly taller than him on this coin.

With this president it's entirely possible.

 

[chaseter]

This is why only those that have served in the military should be a requirement for higher office that oversees military functions.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Roger Stone privately sought information he considered damaging to Hillary Clinton from WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange during the 2016 campaign, according to emails reviewed by WSJ

https://www.wsj.com/articles/roger-...n-clinton-from-assange-emails-show-1527191428

 

[squeekness]

This is why only those that have served in the military should be a requirement for higher office that oversees military functions.

I can't argue with this much. Experience has to count for a lot.

 

[InCali]

This is why only those that have served in the military should be a requirement for higher office that oversees military functions.

I can't argue with this much. Experience has to count for a lot.

Changing the constitution to require military service if you want to hold a public office that oversees military functions is a terrible, ill thought out idea. All adult citizens have, and should have the same rights regardless of whether they have served in the military; including the right to serve in any public office if they choose to run or are appointed. Military service in and of itself does not make one more qualified for this type of office. Restricting these rights needs to be done with extreme care (there are certain qualifications you need to meet to be President for example). Supposing that someone doesn't qualify for service in the military. You would exclude them from certain public service positions based on a handicap? Good luck with that idea. LOL. That's just one obvious example. There are plenty of others.

I have a better idea. If someone doesn't believe in free speech, press, and expression, maybe THEY shouldn't be in this country.