F'dup Chapters in American History(The Trump Years) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[Marvolo]

And in other racist news, Sessions is making it official that asylum seekers will be separate from their kids, because asylum seekers who likely don't know US law, will be arrested and charged with a federal crime, even if they are eventually granted asylum.

Seeking a asylum isnt a felony. What can they be charged with?

 

[Sithborg]

Seeking a asylum isnt a felony. What can they be charged with?

Illegal entry.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Has it occurred to anyone to just try to fix Mexico?

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Why "Be Better" when you can Be Best! Because best is, uh... better than better.

Its one louder iow.

 

[Sithborg]

Has it occurred to anyone to just try to fix Mexico?

I would wager that asylum seekers aren't from Mexico.

 

[samsnee]

So New York attorney general Schneiderman, who was investigating the current President’s dealings, looks like another sleazebag who assaulted women. In theory this shouldn’t hinder an unrelated investigation but it’s not good optics.

 

[Marvolo]

Illegal entry.

Why would it matter how they got into the country if they go to the authorities and seek asylum? By seeking asylum they are formally declaring their presence to the authorities. At that point, how they got into the country should be irrelevant.

 

[Sithborg]

Why would it matter how they got into the country if they go to the authorities and seek asylum? By seeking asylum they are formally declaring their presence to the authorities. At that point, how they got into the country should be irrelevant.

Racism.

 

[Raiden]

Melania Trump copies ‘Be Best’ anti-cyberbullying guidelines from booklet released by Obama’s FTC

oops

Maybe she can make her chubby hubby read it; he can learn a thing or two.

 

[chamber-music]

It's a generational divide, imo. The ones that want to go to Iran were around for the Iran hostage crisis. They are also the generation that didn't actually go into Iraq and Afghanistan.

@#$# boomers.

Most Iranians born after the revolution don't even have hostile feelings to the west. Most of them want good relations with the west which is why they elected the current Iranian president Hassan Rouhani who ran on a platform of better relations with the west and was an ally of the Green movement/Persian Spring.

All this regime change talk is dangerous. We do not want Iran to turn into another Syria or Iraq.

If you want to change Iran then we should be backing the reformers who have the support of most of Iran's young population.

Iran's old ruling theocracy want the deal to fail. They want it to fail to prove the U.S and the west can't be trusted or aren't willing to look for a peaceful solution.

 

[SSAV]

Most Iranians born after the revolution don't even have hostile feelings to the west. Most of them want good relations with the west which is why they elected the current Iranian president Hassan Rouhani who ran on a platform of better relations with the west and was an ally of the Green movement/Persian Spring.

All this regime change talk is dangerous. We do not want Iran to turn into another Syria or Iraq.

If you want to change Iran then we should be backing the reformers who have the support of most of Iran's young population.

Iran's old ruling theocracy want the deal to fail. They want it to fail to prove the U.S and the west can't be trusted or aren't willing to look for a peaceful solution.

Not to mention US already tried regime change in Iran once; that is what got them the Islamic revolution (in place of the democratically elected near-secular government they had earlier). That was for oil.

What makes them think it would be better with a few soldiers and nuclear weapons in toe? On the other hand, if they do this, at some point in time, they can proudly declare that they destroyed the entire Middle East and the cultural homeland of most of world's ancient civilisations. Go US!

[About the Islamic thing; Iran doesn't even follow the majority Islamic faith; they are Shias while the majority are Sunnis. And, they also have a fatwa against suicide killing unlike Saudi Arabia. So, I am not sure why they would be stand in in the West's mind for Islamic culture. The Iranian culture is not just Islamic or Arabic culture but also Persian. There are significant cultural and theological differences. Not to mention that Iran is also the home of ancient Zoroastran faith as well as the more recent Bahai faith.]

 

[Doug_Moore]

President Trump withdrawing from the Iran deal.

 

[Aximili86]

Omgz nukes'll be flying off the chain soon, whoa man. Etc.

 

[Dr Lee]

Any US deal is now moot...if Trump is dumping one on whim, then how can anyone else expect theirs to last?

 

[DeadPresident]

Doesn't really seem like it's on a whim as much as it's a continuation of him trying to undo whatever Obama did, but it will make other heads of state more skeptical about the amount of trust they can put in any claim Trump makes.

 

[Dr Lee]

or any Obama (or earlier) deals...

 

[Aximili86]

Trust, though? Trump's never been for the Iran nuke deal. Think what you want of it, but he's been pretty consistent on the issue since fairly early way back in the campaign, there's no real trust that's been breached. Deal was with a different leader, it's not like it went through some affirmation vote in Congress or whatever.

You can bet your ass if there was a carry-over deal Bush made in '07 that Obama fundamentally wasn't a good idea, he'd scrap it first opportunity once president too. Bush with Clinton, Clinton with Bush Sr., how it goes.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Omgz nukes'll be flying off the chain soon, whoa man. Etc.

It is a blow to U.S. credibility which has taken a lot of dings due to conservative policy already. Also you act as though Trump doesn't have advisors around him that have not been regime change hawks.

At this stage though I don't expect anything but strawmen from the other side though.

 

[DeadPresident]

Dings that the US can't really afford at present. I'm not 100% sure I agree with a nuclear Iran but considering the volatility in the region just messing with things for the sake of ideological pandering doesn't seem particularly prudent.

Also, statistically speaking most of Trump's decisions are either A) stupid or B) self-serving - so it's reasonable to err on the side of it being a bad idea.

 

[Aximili86]

It is a blow to U.S. credibility which has taken a lot of dings due to conservative policy already. Also you act as though Trump doesn't have advisors around him that have not been regime change hawks.

At this stage though I don't expect anything but strawmen from the other side though.

Regime change in Iran is a good thing.

It won't happen because of this though. They'll throw a hissy-fit, realize they can't really do anything about it, but better abide by the 'don't pursue nukes' stuff anyway because you've got Trump & Netanyahu as a double-act rather than Obama & Netanyahu at each other's throats.

Rouhani looks like an incompetent due to the deal imploding, probably loses a lot of internal influence with the religious poobahs, hardliner might get positioned in power next time around. Yet said hardliner's still in a bind and won't do anything stupid because they're not completely insane.

And that's all worst-case scenario. Best-case scenario there's some new deal/agreement reached. And the most likely eventuality is something in-between those two things happens, lots of blustery rhetoric & eventual saving face and backing down.

 

[Sithborg]

Regime change in Iran is a good thing.

It won't happen because of this though. They'll throw a hissy-fit, realize they can't really do anything about it, but better abide by the 'don't pursue nukes' stuff anyway because you've got Trump & Netanyahu as a double-act rather than Obama & Netanyahu at each other's throats.

Rouhani looks like an incompetent due to the deal imploding, probably loses a lot of internal influence with the religious poobahs, hardliner might get positioned in power next time around. Yet said hardliner's still in a bind and won't do anything stupid because they're not completely insane.

And that's all worst-case scenario. Best-case scenario there's some new deal/agreement reached. And the most likely eventuality is something in-between those two things happens, lots of blustery rhetoric & eventual saving face and backing down.

You are a god damn idiot if you think that pursuing a war with Iran is a good idea. You have one of the key players in trumping up a reason to go to war with Iraq in an influential position again. And don't tell me I am seeing things, because I remember the lead up to Iraq. Something that should never happen again.

It is pretty clear that Trump is looking for any reason to sabotage the deal. He hired the Weinstein's ex-mossad group to dig up dirt on the negotiators of the deal. I mean, he objected to the sunset date of 2030. I think there is time to renegotiate at that time.

 

[Aximili86]

Who said war? Regime change there isn't going to happen through war, only way it goes down is the regime going a step too far with the public and Average Joes rising up to pull a Gaddafi-thon.

"Idiotic" would be "the deal's scrapped, so...war". That's not how the world works. There are a billion other in-between scenarios here.

 

[chamber-music]

The worst thing is this just empowers irans hardliners which is the opposite of what you want if you are in favour of an eventual regime change.

 

[Sithborg]

Who said war? Regime change there isn't going to happen through war, only way it goes down is the regime going a step too far with the public and Average Joes rising up to pull a Gaddafi-thon.

"Idiotic" would be "the deal's scrapped, so...war". That's not how the world works. There are a billion other in-between scenarios here.

History is repeating. Within 20 years. If you think "regime change" means anything except war, then I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[Aximili86]

Err, not really, Chamber. The Iranian public doesn't go bat**** "We're Not Gonna Take It" on a moderate. Things always get worse domestically before they get better. Rouhani's basically a pawn to the religious guys, he's not the enemy here, guy's harmless enough despite the stupid crap he says weekly. You don't want him and his ilk there long-term still answering to the Ayatollah (or next Ayatollah) though, that's how the brutal theocracy continues well into the future. "Moderate" in there for the international PR, power still in the hands of crazypants "Death To The West!" guy.

It's never coming to nuclear war, though. Israel'd be all over that long before we even had to - Iran's simply not getting to North Korea levels of nuclear capability, not even anything to do with us. Israel & Saudi Arabia just won't stand for it, for their own differing self-interests.