F'dup Chapters in American History(The Trump Years) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[Reaver027]

Is the current plan of the US goverment to get the western alliance to its breaking point?
Because if that is the plan it might work.

 

[chaseter]

I don’t think my question was answered...

 

[Sithborg]

I don’t think my question was answered...

Because is dehumanizes them. And in a way to justify treating them horrifically.

Also, you just have to look at who said it.

 

[chamber-music]

Is the current plan of the US goverment to get the western alliance to its breaking point?
Because if that is the plan it might work.

It's Putin's plan and Trump seems all to happy to go along with it.

Trump's whole political platform is built on his belief the entire world is taking advantage/laughing at America and that Trump is a tough guy that will strong arm the rest of the world into doing what he wants.

 

[Dr Lee]

Question: how is it racist to call violent gang members, animals? Geniuine question. Call them **** faces for all I care.

he wasn't talking about the Gang members when he first used the term...the correction only came because the media made a rightful stink about it...

 

[Sithborg]

Well, this certainly explains how Broidy got caught up with Cohen...

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/the-princes-the-president-and-the-fortune-seekers

 

[chaseter]

Because is dehumanizes them. And in a way to justify treating them horrifically.

Also, you just have to look at who said it.

I don’t care about the dehumanization of people that willingly rape and murder others. They aren’t human. The human experience doesn’t include ending the life or innocence of other humans. Someone who willingly murders or rapes does not deserve a second chance in society. They deserve prison until time takes their life away.

My question was how the term is racist...

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I don’t care about the dehumanization of people that willingly rape and murder others. They aren’t human. The human experience doesn’t include ending the life or innocence of other humans. Someone who willingly murders or rapes does not deserve a second chance in society. They deserve prison until time takes their life away.

My question was how the term is racist...

Isn't Trump accused of rape?

The term animals itself isn't racist. The context is though. The idea of making harsh actions justified against anyone. Not taking into account...like American policy in Latin America that increases the violence? Fast and Furious anyone?


How people end up in gangs and such isn't some cut and dry affair. And not everyone in a gang is the stuff you see on tv. Some just are low-level punks who push the drugs on the street (some under threat of being killed themselves). But again, they're just animals so who cares.

 

[TheBat812]

I don’t care about the dehumanization of people that willingly rape and murder others. They aren’t human. The human experience doesn’t include ending the life or innocence of other humans. Someone who willingly murders or rapes does not deserve a second chance in society. They deserve prison until time takes their life away.

My question was how the term is racist...

Humans DO rape and murder, far more than actual animals, lol.


The term is racist based on historical context. Westerners used to refer to people of color across the world as 'animals' because they didn't believe in Christ and because their cultures were deemed more 'primitive' than the Western culture of the time (ironically, as Westerners murdered and plundered these people's societies). That terminology of minimizing another person's human value by calling them 'animals' is a hold over from that, and so absolutely has racist implications embedded in it. Whether it's being currently used that way doesn't take it's racial history away.

(For the record, it appears to be a clear dog whistle. Notice he hasn't called any of the white school shooters 'animals', but only in the context of describing non-whites. He then further tries to lump in immigrants in general with these literal gangters, as if all immigrants are equally horrible foreigners. That too many Americans are either ignorant of this history, or unwilling to face it, is sad in itself)

 

[Donner]

If you keep calling criminals animals and treating them as such in the prison system, the crime rates will never go down. This is basic stuff. The countries that treat their prisoners with respect and human dignity experience far lower recidivism rates. Common sense.

 

[Aximili86]

It is not pointless. When you dehumanize someone, you can justify a LOT more atrocities against them.

Wait, what? Deporting a foreign national who's sliced & diced someone with a machete or raped a teenager is an "atrocity" against them now?

Last I heard, the Trumpies aren't talking about shoving them in internment camps in the middle of the desert or whatever. He's talking about severe jail terms and deportation.

This is the hilarious part these days, the other side hates this ****ing guy so intensely they find themselves in a position where they're defending vicious gang members & friggin' Kim Jong Un and such, just purely out of reflex. Yeah, sorry - you commit a crime like those documented by these guys, and you're part of a nationally-listed criminal gang (Obama's admin put them on the list, by the way, not the current tools), you're outta here. If the guy in the Big Chair wants to call you an animal on your way out, whatever. You raped a kid, **** you. Animal.

Of course, the same thing goes for U.S. nationals who commit the same crimes. Only difference being we throw them in jail rather than send them home, given they're home already and unfortunately get to stay.

 

[Sithborg]

That is exactly what Joe Arpaio did.

Look, I am not defending violent criminals. They do the crimes, they should go to prison. And if those crimes were committed on US soil, then they go to jail then deported.

However, there is a difference between the language used to denounce specific acts, and used to describe a generic "other". Make no mistake, to Trump and Miller, MS-13 = Mexican. Again, the rhetoric used by the White House is the rhetoric you see in authoritarian countries. Denounce "the other". And it is having an effect. Trump is causing people to fear immigrants, legal or otherwise. Even Bush did his best to fight islamophobia post-9/11.

No one is saying that they shouldn't enforce the laws with violent criminals. But the rhetoric is very, very dangerous.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

The President should choose his or her words more carefully. It's like when George W. Bush said he was going to a launch a crusade. They wisely moved away from that type of language because all it does is fuel a clash of civilizations or races and ethnic groups.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Mein Gott.

If this doesn't belong in this thread I don't know what does:

https://***********/JohnCornyn/status/998870161049481218

A psychopath who harasses a girl for months is entitled to mass murder because she won't give it up?! The father who couldn't even lock up his own guns and is not culpable and defends this POS as a "good boy"? A US Senator retweets this victim shaming? WTF!

Don't even get me started on how a black man holding a cell phone in his grandmother's backyard is shot 20 times but these pieces of human trash who lay waste to the innocent lives of children are miraculously captured alive? (Hmmm I wonder what could be the difference?) WTF!

 

[Aximili86]

Look, I am not defending violent criminals. They do the crimes, they should go to prison. And if those crimes were committed on US soil, then they go to jail then deported.

Which is precisely what's happening with these MS-13 guys.

However, there is a difference between the language used to denounce specific acts, and used to describe a generic "other".

Well, sure. But the "generic" in this case is foreigner who's part of a criminally-listed group, committing violent crime. That's "other", that's "square peg in a round hole".

Make no mistake, to Trump and Miller, MS-13 = Mexican.

Bull****.

Again, the rhetoric used by the White House is the rhetoric you see in authoritarian countries.

Totally. Only in authoritarian countries it's directed at innocent Jewish bankers/storeowners, politically-opposed dissidents, or people of a different color or creed in general.

Not, you know, "tattoo-sporting officially-group-aligned machete-fetishists". It's narrow enough here to not be an issue, anyone not deranged over the outcome of the election can see he was talking about the specific gang members, not brown people as a whole.

But the rhetoric is very, very dangerous.

Sure, but by today's standards any opposing rhetoric on any issue is deemed "dangerous". Starts to lose meaning after a while. It is what it is, everyone's an a$$hole now, the whole game is dirty. We deserve better, only...yeah, no we don't, the whole country's complicit in the guttertrash. Tea Party's a bunch of Nazis, the President wants to bone his daughter, Obama's a Kenyan Muslim sleeper-agent.

All the rhetoric's out of line these days. At least this animal crack was shot at violent & organized blade-wielding teen-rapists who, you know, objectively deserve it. **** 'em. Trump's a jackass, but he's not wrong on this one.

 

[Teelie]

Mein Gott.

If this doesn't belong in this thread I don't know what does:

https://***********/JohnCornyn/status/998870161049481218

A psychopath who harasses a girl for months is entitled to mass murder because she won't give it up?! The father who couldn't even lock up his own guns and is not culpable and defends this POS as a "good boy"? A US Senator retweets this victim shaming? WTF!

Don't even get me started on how a black man holding a cell phone in his grandmother's backyard is shot 20 times but these pieces of human trash who lay waste to the innocent lives of children are miraculously captured alive? (Hmmm I wonder what could be the difference?) WTF!

Really too early to know if the kid was bullied at school. If he was then this is an unfortunate outcome from a prevelance of letting kids bully one another combined with a loose access to firearms. "Kids will be kids." "A little teasing never hurt anyone." "He needs to toughen up." "I grew up with it and I came out of it just fine." All excuses to justify a society that really does not respect the individual or teaches that actions have consequences. Especially when you give the victim of bullying access to the worst recourse.


Either way this kid was not "a good kid" when he was harassing this girl for months beforehand then took out his emotional frustration in the most horrendous way possible.


This issue goes deeper and wider than loose gun culture but gun culture enabled it. Trying to deny that is why the problem persists. Denial that a problem even exists with the current gun laws is the crutch that keeps this from falling over on itself. After Sandy Hook. After Orlando. After Las Vegas and Stoneman. After this latest massacre and a hundred before it. Nothing will change because those who fear their guns being taken away from paranoia and propaganda won't let anything change.


Society is clearly divided on what to do with guns. They can't and won't be banned but the far right attitude of least regulation they can buy from politicians is clearly making it worse.

 

[MaceB]

Bull****.

With all the prejudiced stuff that Trump has said, I don't know why you'd give him the benefit of the doubt and insert M13 gang members into the quote. We know that Trump has a skewed view of immigrants and illegal immigrants, and tends to lump them all into one "bad hombre" category. He clarified that he was referring to M13 a day after his initial comments, and rolled them back only because they illuminated his true feelings for Americans. Why carry his water by going out of your way to interpret the quote positively?

"We have people coming into the country, or trying to come in — we’re stopping a lot of them — but we’re taking people out of the country, you wouldn’t believe how bad these people are. These aren’t people, these are animals. And we’re taking them out of the country at a level and at a rate that’s never happened before. And because of the weak laws, they come in fast, we get them, we release them, we get them again, we bring them out — it’s crazy. The dumbest laws — as I said before — the dumbest laws on immigration in the world."

 

[moviedoors]

Trump’s history of racism goes back decades. The first time he was ever mentioned in the media was in an article about his discriminatory housing practices. Listen to the two-part Dollop podcast on Trump for the full rundown. The list goes on and on and on. He’s a ****in’ racist.

 

[chaseter]

Isn't Trump accused of rape?

The term animals itself isn't racist. The context is though. The idea of making harsh actions justified against anyone. Not taking into account...like American policy in Latin America that increases the violence? Fast and Furious anyone?


How people end up in gangs and such isn't some cut and dry affair. And not everyone in a gang is the stuff you see on tv. Some just are low-level punks who push the drugs on the street (some under threat of being killed themselves). But again, they're just animals so who cares.

So was Clinton? What does that have to do with my question?

I think there is a lot of reaching going on here. Had he pointed out a specific race...then yes that is racist. Calling gang members animals is not racist and more than that...who cares? If people want to sing kumbaya with murderers and rapists, go ahead. Being in a gang, committing a crime, killing someone not in self defense is a choice. You deserve to pay for that choice. Saying people don’t have a choice is ridiculous. You are taking away responsibility of actions away from an individual and putting it on something or someone else. That’s the problem with society in general...no one wants to take responsibility. You’re an animal, scum, low life, etc if you murder in cold blood.

While I agree that lesser crime individuals that will get out in a few years need help on the inside to hopefully become productive members of society and I’m all for that. I’m not for treating violent offenders with respect and dignity. They don’t deserve it and they don’t deserve to be integrated back into society regardless of the circumstances that surrounded their choice. They are animals and they treated others like animals. They don’t deserve to be called sir or madame and get an equal voice in society anymore. They don’t deserve dignity and respect from anyone. They are locked away for life. Don’t starve them to death or torture them...animals in a zoo can be well taken care of without spending half a million from taxpayers on psychotherapy sessions for a murderer locked away for life. I don’t care about their ‘feelings’. They can be forgiven for their crimes by an individual but that doesn’t mean they get a fresh start in society and treated like a saint.

 

[MaceB]

Calling gang members animals is not racist and more than that...who cares? If people want to sing kumbaya with murderers and rapists, go ahead.

He doesn't mention M13 gang members in the context of the quote though. "We have people coming into the country, or trying to come in." - that's the subject that he's describing as animals.

Yes, he clarified the next day when there was enough outrage... but how has Trump earned the benefit of the doubt? With all of what we've seen and heard, isn't it much easier to take what he said at face value instead of trying to find out what he "might" have meant? I don't know why we have to parse words here to make the quote seem favorable.

 

[Deck Rickard]

So was Clinton? What does that have to do with my question?

Well, for starters, for a guy who finds rape so vile and disgusting, you sure spend a lot of your time here defending a rapist.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Is the current plan of the US goverment to get the western alliance to its breaking point?
Because if that is the plan it might work.

No that, Russia's plan. Trump is just the idiot they are manipulating to get the job done and he doesn't seem to care so long as he and his rich friends/fam get richer while they do so.

 

[Aximili86]

He doesn't mention M13 gang members in the context of the quote though. "We have people coming into the country, or trying to come in." - that's the subject that he's describing as animals.

In the wake of a few heavily-reported & exceedingly-brutal incidents, at a conference where that was specifically the topic of discussion at the time he said it.

Don't do that. You know it's wrong.

 

[FTCBIRDMAN]

This has happened over and over again. It's just like during the campaign when he said the 2nd amendment people need to take care of Clinton. The next day his supporters were doing backflips saying he didn't mean what he said. Why doesn't the guy just say what he means then? He has a good brain and the best words right? He's shown countless times he at the very least has racist tendencies so why is it a stretch believe the words that come out of the man's mouth?

 

[Mike5575]

Question: how is it racist to call violent gang members, animals? Geniuine question. Call them **** faces for all I care.

It's not racist, but is offensive to animals. Look at this elephant peacefully socializing with this man.