Fant4stic "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

[Kelly]

Y'know, I am really getting tired of this "It's 2013 now" nonsense. That is not an answer to the questions being asked here, people. You are simply telling people what year is on the current calendar. Let's look at a different example here:

"Why hello there, sir, would you like a stick of this tasty Big Red chewing gum?"
"It's 2013 now!"
"Um... about that chewing gum..."

Stating the year doesn't serve as an answer to every question. Sure, that chewing gum example might seem odd, but look at it this way. That ridiculous response of "It's 2013 now" does not answer that question. It doesn't even make anything resembling sense. If people are discussing the fact that an adaptation of a comic with a family theme would logically discuss the family bonds between characters, therefore making a change in the racial makeup of the family something that, again would only be natural to actually bring up in any decent story about family, you cannot say "It's 2013" as a response. Not a response that makes any sense anyway. If anything, trying to handwave things like that is exactly why this type of casting could be terrible. If the politically correct way to address this sort of change is to go so far as to not acknowledge it at all in a story adapted from a series that is part of a universe that has frequently touched on a wide variety of social topics, this so-called politically correct take sucks. Handwaving the relationship is disingenuous. Having a mixed family and making a good story about that is one thing. Having a mixed family and suggesting that Marvel's First Family shouldn't even acknowledge that in their story is crazy. I can absolutely see the argument to make a change. I can't agree with making a change and refusing to actually develop an interesting story with that, though.

What???

 

[Project862006]

i think he may be drunk lol

 

[Eddie]

Sorry for not making my post more clear. It was meant to be a response about the "It's 2013" comment some people (even MBJ himself) have made lately. Some people seem to feel that a change in race wouldn't require an in-script explanation, going as far as suggesting that the topic wouldn't even have a reason to come up. They then say "It's 2013" as though it answers everything. Again, even the actor in question did this in his recent interview. Apologies again for being unclear.

 

[Kelly]

Sorry for not making my post more clear. It was meant to be a response about the "It's 2013" comment some people (even MBJ himself) have made lately. Some people seem to feel that a change in race wouldn't require an in-script explanation, going as far as suggesting that the topic wouldn't even have a reason to come up. They then say "It's 2013" as though it answers everything. Again, even the actor in question did this in his recent interview. Apologies again for being unclear.

OK, I gotcha, I thought you may be talking about keeping the source material exactly as is, as in.....1960's, fighting communism, etc.

 

[Eddie]

OK, I gotcha, I thought you may be talking about keeping the source material exactly as is, as in.....1960's, fighting communism, etc.

Nah. 60's Marvel needs fairly hefty adaptation in modern cinema. The underlying themes still ring true, though. Any good FF origin should be about family, regardless of other changes.

 

[Kelly]

Nah. 60's Marvel needs fairly hefty adaptation in modern cinema. The underlying themes still ring true, though. Any good FF origin should be about family, regardless of other changes.

I certainly agree with that...

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I don't think Jordan means it didn't need to be explained. He never said that in his interview.

What I think he means by "It's 2013" is that African Americans now have more opportunities now than they have in the past (it's not like options like Mixed families or adoption were always an option nor was the potential for him or someonelike him in this role was always possible) and race shouldn't be a huge issue.

I don't understand how people could interpret that otherwise.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Am i the only person who's ever seen a family where maybe one or two members of the family members appeared to be of a different race and not thinking that was the biggest mystery on earth for how this came to be?

My point of letting the audience figure it out themselves has nothing to do with it being a mystery but the opposite i.e there are a lot of blended-families these days and it's not shocking to encounter a family made up of different looking races.

If they would want to explain it they can but it's not a requisite.

I'd say there would definitely have to be clarification of some sort because it could be either adoption or mixed families. Depending on which one, the audience's perception will be different with the three options (adoption, mixed family, or not explaining) and I believe not explaining it could have a negative effect on the perception of the two characters.

If it goes unexplained that's a big character detail that's being left out.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Who was changed in Spawn?

Terry Fitzgerald. African American in the comics, but played by a caucasian on the big screen (D.B.Sweeney)...race portrayal is not imperative to that particular character, but i still wanted to see him brought to life as accurately as possible from the comics...

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

the poll in the homepage says it all. the grand majority are not in favor of Jordan playing Johnny.

i doubt this goes through anyway. seems like more of a ploy to garner some attention.

 

[Human Torch]

I think the front page poll speaks volumes as well.

Re: the "2013" comments,I think the crux of the debate has to do with the fact that in 2013,you just don't ever want to use the phrase "so and so can't do X because he's black".And I agree,in all other areas (be it doctor,lawyer,president-whatever.) saying someone shouldn't get a certain job because of their race shouldn't be tolerated.

The thing is,however,we're not talking about acting ability or skill.The idea (at least from actual purist fans) is that it shouldn't be all that difficult to find an actor possessing some skill and look reasonably like the character was originally designed.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

What if Sue was black but invisible the whole time?

 

[Sawyer]

 

[Spider-Aziz]

What if Sue was black but invisible the whole time?

It won't be an origin film

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

the poll in the homepage says it all. the grand majority are not in favor of Jordan playing Johnny.

i doubt this goes through anyway. seems like more of a ploy to garner some attention.

that's what i was thinking as well. Reaction to this reboot has been lukewarm at best, and Fox knows it. anything to bring some attention to their little project.

 

[Paradox1]

Part of it's 2013 is diversification of the Marvel and DC universe there is not enough black, Latino , Asian , and gay people in major roles such as the big names. It's still a good ole boys club among the bigger names.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

The poll in the homepage is the results of a bunch of angry nerds.

Not the general public.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Here's a serious question, do Johnny and Sue absolutely, positively have to be related? Would that make or break the movie?

 

[bubbadoom]

Here's a serious question, do Johnny and Sue absolutely, positively have to be related? Would that make or break the movie?

Well of course they should be - because that's the way they were created. The entire dynamics of the team - the "family" aspect is based on brother/sister, best friends, husband/wife, etc. You start removing this and they are just any other team like the X-Men or the Avengers.

I guess the bigger question is WHY would you do this - just to explain a casting choice?

 

[Stringer]

Well of course they should be - because that's the way they were created. The entire dynamics of the team - the "family" aspect is based on brother/sister, best friends, husband/wife, etc. You start removing this and they are just any other team like the X-Men or the Avengers.

I guess the bigger question is WHY would you do this - just to explain a casting choice?

Those dynamics can still be exactly the same regardless of race. Ever hear of the term of "brother from another mother"?

 

[cronosred]

Part of it's 2013 is diversification of the Marvel and DC universe there is not enough black, Latino , Asian , and gay people in major roles such as the big names. It's still a good ole boys club among the bigger names.

Don't forget plus sized people, they count just as much.

 

[SuperFerret]

The "it's 2013" argument is dumb because it implies that bigotry has an expiration date and that simply by noting that the "milk" has gone sour makes it go away, and that's simply naive. The date has no bearing on whether or not these things are okay, nor does it have a bearing on whether or not it occurs.

 

[bubbadoom]

Those dynamics can still be exactly the same regardless of race. Ever hear of the term of "brother from another mother"?

I was not speaking of race - the question was do they need to be related - and yes, to be true to the source material [which is what most of us want] they DO need to be related - regardless of their race.

 

[Stringer]

I was not speaking of race - the question was do they need to be related - and yes, to be true to the source material [which is what most of us want] they DO need to be related - regardless of their race.

The word "relation" is just semantics. If they had them as blood siblings in the movie but completely hated each other or had a relationship that is the exact opposite of what it is in the comics, you would hate it. Or would you seriously say "well at least they have the same mother and father."?

 

[bubbadoom]

The word "relation" is just semantics. If they had them as blood siblings in the movie but completely hated each other or had a relationship that is the exact opposite of what it is in the comics, you would hate it. Or would you seriously say "well at least they have the same mother and father."?

I would be opposed to it because it was off model from the comics, yes!