Sequels FOX Shared Universe

[Flint Marko]

Mature as ever, MMM. It's undeniable that making $70 million off that box office is pretty pathetic. Sony made a similar amount with ASM 2 and that movie was the nail in the coffin for that franchise.

How could it have been more profitable? The Wolverine and First Class didn't make nearly as much as DoFP. It made exactly as much as Fox wanted it to make and their confidence in the property shows in their future projects.

I can't remember the exact numbers but Marvel made almost triple that amount off similar BO gross with GOTG and/or Cap 2. So where that money went, and why Marvel was able to make so much off a comparable box office gross, is quite astounding. I'm sure there are a lot of factors that go into it, but again, only making that little is certainly disappointing to the bean counters at Fox.

 

[Mad Ones]

Mature as ever. You can continue to berate me for having a different opinion than you, but it's undeniable that making $70 million off that box office is pretty pathetic. Sony made a similar amount with ASM 2 and that movie was the nail in the coffin for that franchise.

Obviously something is missing from your equation since five X-properties are in development post DoFP.

 

[MakeMinesMarvel]

five X-properties are in development post DoFP.

What will the 6th be?

I have a crazy idea that Fox puts their Oscar winners together.

Mystique directed by Alejandro González Iñárritu starring Jennifer Lawrence with a fresh big new contract.

 

[Flint Marko]

Obviously something is missing from your equation since five X-properties are in development post DoFP.

I'm obviously not saying it was failure but you're kidding yourself if you think they were happy about making $70 million. Again, let me remind you that Sony made similar money off of ASM 2 and that killed the franchise.

 

[Eddie]

To be fair, way more than five Spider-Man movies were in development at Sony...

That said, I don't think there's anything inherently negative in saying DoFP didn't have a phenomenal profit margin. It doesn't mean it was a failure. It just means Fox will likely want to find ways to make things more profitable. Restructuring their deal with Marvel is one thing they could do (I'm not even necessarily talking about reversion here, as Sony and Marvel restructured their deal a few years before the BIG deal). Lower budgets for the films is also an option. There are plenty of possibilities, and they're worth discussing if you're going to talk about a shared universe of any sort. The behind the scenes stuff definitely has an impact on the product we get. A huge one.

 

[Flint Marko]

To be fair, way more than five Spider-Man movies were in development at Sony...

That said, I don't think there's anything inherently negative in saying DoFP didn't have a phenomenal profit margin. It doesn't mean it was a failure. It just means Fox will likely want to find ways to make things more profitable. Restructuring their deal with Marvel is one thing they could do (I'm not even necessarily talking about reversion here, as Sony and Marvel restructured their deal a few years before the BIG deal). Lower budgets for the films is also an option. There are plenty of possibilities, and they're worth discussing if you're going to talk about a shared universe of any sort. The behind the scenes stuff definitely has an impact on the product we get. A huge one.

Exactly. That's more or less my point, like it or not Fox needs to do something because this franchise looks like it could be bleeding money if they don't reduce the budgets. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't DOFP one of, if not the, most expensive movies they've ever produced? I'm sure that was the leading factor with the underwhelming profit margin.

 

[Sithborg]

I'm obviously not saying it was failure but you're kidding yourself if you think they were happy about making $70 million. Again, let me remind you that Sony made similar money off of ASM 2 and that killed the franchise.

I actually looked at that article. There is a lot of speculation. A little thing I have been taught in my accounting classes: there are three books, what you show the investors, what you show the government, and the one with the accountant.

The only truth we have is how the studios react to the results. In Sony's case, it is work a deal to use the Marvel Studio brand. In Fox's case, it is to expand their line of X movies. So, what do you think the real truth of the box office is for the two movies?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I can't remember the exact numbers

Here you go (from Deadline):

Rank…Movie…Profit (in millions)
1. Transformers: Age Of Extinction – $250.155
2. American Sniper – $242.58
3. The Lego Movie – $229.008
4. The Hunger Games: Mockingjay Part 1 – $211.609
5. Guardians of the Galaxy – $204.2
6. Maleficent – $190.77
7. Big Hero 6 – $187.339
8. Dawn Of The Planet Of The Apes – $182.179
9. Captain America: The Winter Soldier – $166.224
10. 22 Jump Street – $144.476
11. Neighbors – $136.05
12. Gone Girl – $129.99
13. How to Train Your Dragon 2 – $107.337
14. The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies – $103.379
15. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles – $81.31
16. X-Men: Days Of Future Past – $77.384
17. Divergent – $71.868
18. The Amazing Spider-Man 2 – $70.377
19. Godzilla – $52.477
20. Interstellar – $47.161

 

[Flint Marko]

I actually looked at that article. There is a lot of speculation. A little thing I have been taught in my accounting classes: there are three books, what you show the investors, what you show the government, and the one with the accountant.

The only truth we have is how the studios react to the results. In Sony's case, it is work a deal to use the Marvel Studio brand. In Fox's case, it is to expand their line of X movies. So, what do you think the real truth of the box office is for the two movies?

Again, maybe you aren't hearing me: I'm not saying DOFP was a failure, or that it didn't do a lot to reinvigorate the franchise. I'm saying it didn't make near as healthy of a profit that it could have, and that seems like a pretty reasonable statement wouldn't you agree?
I'm not sure what you're implying about the three books scenario. Are you saying they reported a smaller profit to the public so they would get taxed less? That would be illegal, and I'm sure if they were fudging the numbers in their favor it would not end well for them.

Here you go (from Deadline):

Rank…Movie…Profit (in millions)
1. Transformers: Age Of Extinction – $250.155
2. American Sniper – $242.58
3. The Lego Movie – $229.008
4. The Hunger Games: Mockingjay Part 1 – $211.609
5. Guardians of the Galaxy – $204.2
6. Maleficent – $190.77
7. Big Hero 6 – $187.339
8. Dawn Of The Planet Of The Apes – $182.179
9. Captain America: The Winter Soldier – $166.224
10. 22 Jump Street – $144.476
11. Neighbors – $136.05
12. Gone Girl – $129.99
13. How to Train Your Dragon 2 – $107.337
14. The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies – $103.379
15. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles – $81.31
16. X-Men: Days Of Future Past – $77.384
17. Divergent – $71.868
18. The Amazing Spider-Man 2 – $70.377
19. Godzilla – $52.477
20. Interstellar – $47.161

Thank you
Again, note the fact that with Guardians Marvel made triple the amount of profit that Fox did with DOFP. That's something worth talking about. Again, they either need to rein in the budget (and since they are getting rid of their old cast who all command such big paychecks, that seems more doable) or find a way to bring back the domestic audience to the heights of X3. AoA has the chance to do that, but we'll see.

 

[Eddie]

I actually looked at that article. There is a lot of speculation. A little thing I have been taught in my accounting classes: there are three books, what you show the investors, what you show the government, and the one with the accountant.

The only truth we have is how the studios react to the results. In Sony's case, it is work a deal to use the Marvel Studio brand. In Fox's case, it is to expand their line of X movies. So, what do you think the real truth of the box office is for the two movies?

In Sony's case, we actually DO know how profitable it was, thanks to Katy Perry superfan Kim Jong-Un. It actually did even worse than some reports estimated. It made a profit of around twenty mil, iirc. I have to imagine the DoFP number is accurate enough, if not a little generous. Remember, the vast majority of that big box office take was from other countries that studios don't see all the money from (big box office in China is not the same as big box office in the US, profit-wise). Fox sees no merchandise revenue from X-Men (unlike most blockbusters), and they have to give Marvel a cut.

Edit: Yeah, Deadline was actually off on Spidey. It made less (way less) than that. In their defense, though, they may not have factored in the ludicrous marketing budget or the fact that, unlike with the Raimi films, Sony didn't have the merchandise rights. DoFP was probably more accurate.

 

[MakeMinesMarvel]

A lot of FoX movies in the top 20... FoX sitting pretty.... can we talk about actual movies now? Why do you care how much profit they make? What they eat don't make you ****.

 

[Mad Ones]

I don't think Fox is disappointed though. DoFP was more of an investment. Fox had to put in A LOT of money just to pay off Singer and the returning cast (including the expensive OT cast). Had the movie made no profit I think Fox still would see the value in reinvigorating the franchise (as indicated by green lighting Apocalypse while DoFP was still in production). DoFP happened to return some profit at least, while ensuring that the property will be even more profitable in the future. So I think Fox was quite happy.

Apocalypse is another behemoth, but they are likely not paying any of the OT actors the same amount as DoFP. The newcomers are cheap talent. The solo movies will be cheaper to make, and New Mutants will likely have a smaller budget as well. These smaller budgets, combined with the positive branding of being associated with DoFP/Apocalypse will ensure some favourable returns. Fox should be happy where they are sitting now, compared to five years ago. Not disappointed.

 

[Flint Marko]

A lot of FoX movies in the top 20... FoX sitting pretty....

1. Paramount
2. WB
3. WB
4. Lionsgate
5. Disney
6. Disney
7. Disney
8. Fox
9. Disney
10. Sony
11. Universal
12. Fox
13. Dreamworks
14. WB
15. Paramount, Platinum Dunes, Nickelodean
16. Fox
17. Lionsgate
18. Sony
19. WB
20. WB/Paramount

3 out of 20 isn't "a lot" lol.

 

[Sithborg]

shrug

Again, it is just my perspective, but I looked at the actual deadline article.

Here is the key quote "Here are the costs and revenues as our experts see them:". So they are not actual numbers. And it bugs me that people continue to treat that article as gospel. Well researched, probably. But the truth, not likely.

Was Guardians more profitable than DOFP? Most likely. But it was also a surprise hit. Can't bank on a surprise hit. But, if DOFP had not hit expectations, I doubt Singer would be getting what he needs for Apocalypse or see the expansion of the franchise we are seeing.

 

[MakeMinesMarvel]

3 out of 20 isn't "a lot" lol.

Your such a hater

Dreamworks is owned by Fox first off

5 - WB
4 - Disney
4- FoX
2 - Lionsgate
2 - Sony

So tied for second with mighty Disney is pretty pretty good

 

[Flint Marko]

Your such a hater

Dreamworks is owned by Fox first off

6 - WB
4 - Disney
4- FoX
2 - Lionsgate
2 - Sony

So tied for second with mighty Disney is pretty pretty good

I didn't know Dreamworks was owned by Fox, learn something new every day. Is that a recent thing?

 

[Eddie]

That's pretty swell on Fox' part, letting Disney and Paramount distribute Dreamworks' Ghost in the Shell. Disney should thank them for allowing them to distribute one of their films.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I didn't know Dreamworks was owned by Fox, learn something new every day. Is that a recent thing?

Dreamworks isn't owned by Fox. They just have a five year distribution deal with Fox for their animated division. They are owned by Reliance, most of their films are distributed by Disney, and their offices are at Universal.

 

[MakeMinesMarvel]

All I know is FoX name is on How to Train a Dragon 2 when the movie comes on. FoX is doing well commercially at the box office and critically at the oscars.

Can we please talk about X-Men & Fantastic Four. Everyday y'all derail the thread I know AoU was a disappointment and the bandwagoners jumped ship from that forum in under a month but don't rain on our parade.

 

[Eddie]

Dreamworks isn't owned by Fox. They just have a five year distribution deal with Fox for their animated division. They are owned by Reliance, most of their films are distributed by Disney, and their offices are at Universal.

PSST I think he was being facetious.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

PSST I think he was being facetious.

Sorry.

 

[Eddie]

Sorry.

Aw, I'm just teasing.

Besides, that was a good explanation. Obviously not everyone gets the difference between production and distribution (I didn't know all of the stuff you mentioned).

 

[def28]

All I know is FoX name is on How to Train a Dragon 2 when the movie comes on. FoX is doing well commercially at the box office and critically at the oscars.

Can we please talk about X-Men & Fantastic Four. Everyday y'all derail the thread I know AoU was a disappointment and the bandwagoners jumped ship from that forum in under a month but don't rain on our parade.

Stop the baiting and you'll be more successful with keeping the thread on track. You pull crap like that with X-Men fans too.

 

[MakeMinesMarvel]

You pull crap like that with X-Men fans too.

Only psylocolossus (sp?)

 

[Flint Marko]

PSST I think he was being facetious.

Sorry.

Actually no joke I was being serious, I remember thinking Dreamworks was a subsidiary of some company but I couldn't remember which one.