From THE CHAMPIONS to THE ORDER

[Dread]

Can this book be any better? I'm floored by what Fraction and Kitson are doing here. This is hands down, Marvel's best team book in years.

Agreed. It is the RUNAWAYS of 2007. Only, as you once said, better than RUNAWAYS was by issue #6. It is one of my faves from Marvel these days. I will be pissed to see it go.

 

[PhotoJones]

Hopefully it doesn't go anywhere. If I'm not mistaken, it's sales are better than Runaways were. And this has Kitson's name attatched which should get the benefit of any doubts.

 

[Dread]

Hopefully it doesn't go anywhere. If I'm not mistaken, it's sales are better than Runaways were. And this has Kitson's name attatched which should get the benefit of any doubts.

I haven't seen any hard numbers for November, but it should still be in the 30k range, which, yes, is better than RUNAWAYS usually was. The concern is keeping sales steady so it lasts. What gets books cancelled isn't always low sales, but sales that continue to drop every issue by, say, 5% or more every issue. If a book can maintain a stable audience, and remain in the Top 95 or so, it usually lasts, at least past a year.

 

[PhotoJones]

Kitson's exclusive, isn't he? He should stab Buckley in the neck with a sharpened pencil if the thought even escapes Buckley's mind to cancel this book.

 

[Dread]

Kitson's exclusive, isn't he? He should stab Buckley in the neck with a sharpened pencil if the thought even escapes Buckley's mind to cancel this book.

If it comes to that, so be it.

 

[PhotoJones]

I should stop. This topic just makes me angry.

 

[Dread]

I should stop. This topic just makes me angry.

Why? Because it is about a book that is great and we love, but we have to rely on the ficke direct market sales to keep it around?

I understand.

 

[PhotoJones]

It makes me truely dispise the idiots who haven't even thought of giving this book a try for whatever reason. People are stupid. People are sheep. Sometimes it's harder to accept that then others.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Is it literally moving to a point where the profit margin isn't that large?

 

[PhotoJones]

I don't know. I don't pay attention to the numbers anymore.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Do we have the numbers from November in at all? o.o

 

[PhotoJones]

Ask Dread. He's the number cruncher.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

It was sort of a general question. And I sorta just assumed Dread would chime in, happily, to give me the numbers. Doesn't he normally do that?

 

[Dread]

I usually just read THE BEAT or other sites to get the hard numbers on sales figures.

What I can say is that November's issue slid about ten slots further down the Top 100 or more, which always means some sort of drop. Books usually have their best sales at issue #1 and then bleed readers until they find a stable audience or just drop readers into oblivion and then are cancelled. IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN is the most recent example of a good book dying this way at Marvel.

 

[PhotoJones]

How are The Order's sales compared to Ant-Man's?

 

[Dread]

How are The Order's sales compared to Ant-Man's?

Oh, MUCH better.

IRRDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #1 debuted at 29k, which is a VERY low number for a first issue. In contrast, THE ORDER #1 debuted around 57k or so, within the Top 45.

By the time ANT-MAN ended, it was around 16-15k, at #142 or so of the Top 200.

THE ORDER #2 sold at 40k, a 30% drop from the debut issue. #3 in Sept. sold at #66 of the Top 100 and at around 33k, suffering an additional 15.7% drop.

In November, THE ORDER #4 sold at around #78 of the Top 100. As I said in another post, while spots can fluctuate on the Top 100 depending on how many big sellers are at the start (IRON FIST has held steady around 33-34k for a few issues now, but moves up and down the Top 100 a few slots), but THE ORDER fell about 12 slots, which implies some sort of additional sales skid. How much I don't know yet, a hard figure from Paul O'Brien hasn't been posted at THE BEAT yet, where I get my info.

So, the short answer is THE ORDER is doing a lot better than ANT-MAN was. At issue #3 and possibly #4, it sold as well if not better than ANT-MAN #1 at it's peak. ANT-MAN also had event tie-in's that failed to save it. THE ORDER has held steady under it's own steam, save a connection with NAMOR's now ended mini.

But, let's focus on the positive. Supernaut = Bad Ass. Armor, guns, rock, it doesn't matter.

 

[PhotoJones]

Yes, Milo is a badass.

 

[Dread]

I am still curious as to why the other members of The Order got actual super-powers with their nanobot-infusion thingies while Milo just became the pilot of the Supernaut armor. Is it because due to his prior service record, Stark wants to possibly keep Milo in the Initiative beyond a year? Or did Milo simply get some sort of infusion that allows him (and perhaps only him) to operate the Supernaut armor?

Speaking of which, the suit was frozen up right there for the M.A.N. from S.H.A.D.O.W. to take. Bummer.

 

[PhotoJones]

I don't know. That's a good question. You do get to have some say in your powers, right? I guess there's a possibility that Milo didn't want the use of his legs again. I couldn't imagine why, other than the fact that he probably wouldn't want to go through losing them again after a year's time.

 

[Dread]

That's true, although in the first issue he DID say he was "looking forward to walking again".

In selecting powers, sometimes there is some attempt to play to a person's strengths or desires. For instance, Aralune's powers revolve around becoming whatever she wants to be, which is supposed to help her adjust as she's spent much of her life being controlled by the desires of others (especially her father). Maybe the armor keeps Milo feeling like a soldier, who are trained to rely on their skills and use of machines to achieve things, not getting super-powers.

Milo's still cool and all, I was just curious. The next issue will perhaps see what happens to the armor, because it would be stupid for the M.A.N. to just leave it after he ordered his men to kill the two on sight anyway. But if somehow only Milo can operate it, then it would make sense to just leave it.

 

[Dread]

Some concrete sales news, from Paul O'Brien's sales report on THE BEAT about Nov. 2007.

http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/...month-to-month-sales-november-2007/#more-4324

THE ORDER #4, which had run late, sold 29k and at #78 of the Top 100. That was down 12% from issue #3, which sold at 33k. I feared another drop in sales of 10% or more, and it occured.

The only positive news is that the rate of decline per issue is lessoning; issue #2 had a 30% drop from the debut issue, and the 3rd issue fell 15.7% from that. So that means the bleeding of sales from the 57k debut is slowing mildly, but it may not slow down enough to prevent this book from dying at issue #12. Hopefully shipping two issues in December will help reverse this trend, or at least slow it.

My diagnosis? Enjoy the **** out of this book now, because it may very likely be out of the Top 90-100 by issue #9 or #10, and will be cancelled. Which is a damn shame because it has some of the best new characters in years and the best team book in years. And with a number like 29k, throwing in a random Skrull encounter later on, as some have suggested, really won't delay the inevitable. Hopefully Fraction, Kitson & co. can get in as much story as possible while they can. I mean, the MOON KNIGHT ANNUAL outsold this.

Damn.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

But the Moon Knight annual was funny.

 

[Dread]

HEROES FOR HIRE #15, the LAST issue, outsold THE ORDER. That's terrible, man.

Oh, well. The lesson here is that the direct market just doesn't support new characters. It doesn't matter if said characters are good, bad, or generic. It just doesn't support them.

At the very least, THE ORDER is outselling BLACK PANTHER, MS. MARVEL, SHE-HULK, SPIDER-GIRL, and X-MEN: FIRST CLASS. But all of those titles have lasted beyond a year, and some of them as many as 3.

 

[PhotoJones]

The Order is also the best book of those five. They better not stick around if this gets the can.

 

[Dread]

The Order is also the best book of those five. They better not stick around if this gets the can.

Hell, The Order is a better book than a ****load that FAR outsell it.

SHE-HULK has been a niche book for a while, and has PAD on it. BLACK PANTHER has Hudlin on it, who for some reason matters around Marvel. Brian Reed is trying to rise through Marvel so MS. MARVEL is safe for the short term. SPIDER-GIRL has always defied the odds of survival, and the digests are selling well.

Life unfortunately isn't fair.

THE ORDER is a brand new franchise and it would be worth being hesitant to axe it so quickly for the longevity of the medium. The fact that neither Marvel or DC seem to be able to successfully launch brand new characters is a dilemma across the market. But, if Marvel thought long term, they wouldn't be doing OMD.

I enjoy XM:FC, but I always have wondered why it seemed destined for ongoing status when far better mini's haven't. I guess I can presume Marvel sees it as an offshoot MARVEL ADVENTURES book, and by those standards, it is their best selling.

THE ORDER is still selling twice as well as THE LONERS did. Although THE LONERS finished at #160-something of the Top 200, and any chance of seeing a sequal relies not on sales but Ceb's pull as a former editor. Lord knows they keep giving him FAIRY TALE mini's that sink into sales oblivion. And they keep pushing out SHANNA mini's that offer nothing but cheesecake that sells oh so poorly. So by THOSE standards, yes, THE ORDER better stick around.

But, I am cynical. I'll enjoy it while I can. RUNAWAYS held on with sales around 24-25k for years, but if THE ORDER has another 10% drop the next two issues, it won't even be selling on THAT level. "The Initiative" banner has been losing strength over time, and this unfortunately may be the first casualty.