Killing the Golden Goose -

[Varient]

Interesting Convo in the comic shop this weekend.

The general opinion is that Marvel as a corporation is skimping on the quality and money it could put into it's comic division.

Instead it is Mining 50 plus years of continuity and strip-mining ideas into movie one-shots for immediate money instead of telling complete stories that would take two or three movies to tell.

The source of the characters and ideas they are making their movies from -with few exceptions - has been ignored with a too casual nod toward continuity,.............. Making for stories that more complain about than applaud.

My question here is:

Do you think that Marvel is killing the Goose?

 

[PhotoJones]

Yes, Marvel's certainly holding back money in terms of it's publishing department.[/SARCASM]

They've signed more top shelf exclusive creators then the competition. Like the stories or not, the names sell and Marvel's got the names in spades. That's the opposite of skimping.

 

[Varient]

Yes, Marvel's certainly holding back money in terms of it's publishing department.[/SARCASM]

They've signed more top shelf exclusive creators then the competition. Like the stories or not, the names sell and Marvel's got the names in spades. That's the opposite of skimping.

Yup,.. Whatever you say.

http://www.marvel.com/company/pdfs/Annual Report 2006 3-07.PDF

Yup,.. The annual report here tells a different story with the ones in charge being VERY careful to not even hint at what they are giving their freelance artists and writers but mearly saying that their relationship with their employees "are good".

Signed on,.. But the point of the convo in the shop was about whether they would keep them. They admitted in the same report that their competitors may have "more to offer" then they have.

The bottom line remains that currently Marvel is treating the Comic part of the company worst than the merchandising and movie parts,.. Building a Multimillion dollar studio and making deals with companies like Hasbro while cracking the whip over the comics to make waves however they can - Quality be hanged,.. which explains for me :
The disasembled series
House of M
Son of M
Civil War
The Initiative
The Death of Captain America
And this Messiah mess on the horizon.

Movies are and will continue to be pulled from the comics that were written with more thought and less shock while too much of the current stuff will be written for shock value.


V.

 

[iloveclones]

I have no idea how you came to the conclusions that you did. If you don't like the quality (and I do), I hardly think you made the case that it's because they're doing it on the cheap. Is taking a chance on the Annhilation series (when there was no indication whatsoever that the cosmic/space stuff would sell) cheapening out?
MTU
Ant-Man
Gravity
Thing
Iron Fist
Mary Jane loves Spider-Man.
How many do I have to list that are clearly attempts at building an audience. With absolutely no promise of an immediate return. And many of those had top-notch talents on it!

And some top-tier characters:
DD
Captain America
Hulk
Thor
All great recent runs with top of the line talents.

And people can complain all they want about Spidey or the Avengers. But the numbers don't lie. Those lines were definately reinvigorated by the recent changes in them. And do you think DC wouldn't try to steal Bendis or JMS away in a second if they thought they could? They would be out of their mind not to.

My suggestion would be to not put too much stock in the random *****ings of LCBS personnel. They tend to be a weird, bitter lot. I think Marvel is spreading the green around just fine...

 

[iloveclones]

As far as strip mining for movies, well, that's the bed you jump into where Hollywood is concerned. It's a business. They want ROI right now, not three movies down the road. If they're going to pony up 200 million, they are damn sure going to demand the best stories.

 

[PhotoJones]

Yup,.. Whatever you say.

http://www.marvel.com/company/pdfs/Annual Report 2006 3-07.PDF

Yup,.. The annual report here tells a different story with the ones in charge being VERY careful to not even hint at what they are giving their freelance artists and writers but mearly saying that their relationship with their employees "are good".

Signed on,.. But the point of the convo in the shop was about whether they would keep them. They admitted in the same report that their competitors may have "more to offer" then they have.

The competition is backed by Time Warner. Of course they'd have more to offer in terms of finances and exposure. But even then, Marvel kicks their ass in the publishing world AND on the big screen.

The bottom line remains that currently Marvel is treating the Comic part of the company worst than the merchandising and movie parts,.. Building a Multimillion dollar studio and making deals with companies like Hasbro while cracking the whip over the comics to make waves however they can - Quality be hanged,.. which explains for me :
The disasembled series
House of M
Son of M
Civil War
The Initiative
The Death of Captain America
And this Messiah mess on the horizon.

Are you high? Marvel makes it money in licensing, merchandise and movies, not comics. You're problem is that you're basing quality on whether or not you liked a given story. For you, Civil War sucked, and therefore Marvel must not have put any work into it. Tell that to Steve McNiven and Morry Hollowell.

Hey, I don't like the way Bendis is writing the Avengers these days. I ***** about it from time to time. But that doesn't change the fact that I know his egotistical little self is working his ass off along with Leinil Yu and Dave McCaig to put out the best Avengers comic that they know how to make. If you don't like the current storylines, that's fine. But realize that that has nothing to do with the hard work that goes into making these comics the best that they can be.

I can't believe I had to defend Bendis to prove a point that a six year old could grasp.

 

[The Leaguer]

They've signed more top shelf exclusive creators then the competition.

Extremely incorrect.

 

[PhotoJones]

Extremely incorrect.

No, it's really not. Bendis, Millar and JMS. Those three names alone are licenses to print money.

 

[The Leaguer]

And all three can't write worth crap right now. That's not "top shelf." Money in the bank, maybe, but a completely deficit in regards to quality.

 

[PhotoJones]

I agree that they're extremely overrated and most of what they put out is crap. But their names sell books, and Marvel's putting their money where their mouth is in keeping them. You'd be ******ed to think that DC wouldn't jump at the chance to snatch one of them up. Hell, they're doing it with Millar. And his ideas for the DCU are FAR worse then anything he's thought up for Marvel.

 

[The Leaguer]

What are they doing with Millar?

 

[PhotoJones]

Trying to get him to go exclusive with them after his contract with Marvel is up in mid-2008, if they haven't gotten him already.

 

[The Leaguer]

Marvel has Millar balls-deep down their collective throat, I doubt he's going anywhere.

 

[PhotoJones]

What a surprise, you're wrong again. Millar recently stated that that he's looking forward to leaving Marvel and working for DC. Not ill will or anything like that, but he wants to **** up Superman and stuff.

 

[The Leaguer]

My point is that Marvel would do what they had to to keep him.

 

[PhotoJones]

Uh...Millar doesn't want to be kept. Is today your day to quit thinking?

 

[The Leaguer]

Even if it was, I'd still be hot s***.

 

[PhotoJones]

And there's the confirmation.

 

[The Leaguer]

That I'm hot s***? No one needed confirmation on that.

 

[PhotoJones]

Yes, you are a steaming pile of hot ****.

 

[Varient]

I have no idea how you came to the conclusions that you did. If you don't like the quality (and I do), I hardly think you made the case that it's because they're doing it on the cheap. Is taking a chance on the Annhilation series (when there was no indication whatsoever that the cosmic/space stuff would sell) cheapening out?
MTU
Ant-Man
Gravity
Thing
Iron Fist
Mary Jane loves Spider-Man.
How many do I have to list that are clearly attempts at building an audience. With absolutely no promise of an immediate return. And many of those had top-notch talents on it!

And some top-tier characters:
DD
Captain America
Hulk
Thor
All great recent runs with top of the line talents.

And people can complain all they want about Spidey or the Avengers. But the numbers don't lie. Those lines were definately reinvigorated by the recent changes in them. And do you think DC wouldn't try to steal Bendis or JMS away in a second if they thought they could? They would be out of their mind not to.

My suggestion would be to not put too much stock in the random *****ings of LCBS personnel. They tend to be a weird, bitter lot. I think Marvel is spreading the green around just fine...

I'm honestly just bringing the gist of the convo here.

It started with two of us talking about the Ironman movie and whether they were going to do the second hulk movie rite.

After awhile it was a group of us talking and someone started pointing out what I mentioned earlier,... Of course they started with the late arrival dates and the hit or miss on the major crossovers.

After waiting almost a Year for the conclusion of the Spiderman/Blackcat mini,.... (Geez I forgot - The things people do?),... I had learned to just be patient, (it's not like I'm going anywhere.) - but some of these guys were hot because as military they miss a lot of stuff because the books don't come out on time.
(Always a treat when their wives and girlfriends come in after the guy has been gone for two months and say - "Could I have the Latest Spiderman comic?")

Soon it boiled down my having less and less to defend with and more and more I couldn't dispute.

Bottom line seemed to be that Marvel the company was not trying to build on the comics as much as mine them for money making ideas.

Like for example - how Spiderman three compressed about 30 years of Spiderman continuity (ignoring all the changes to the original story.)

And while I said it was getting better,.. the lack of promoting some characters or books over others,... While going hog - wild over things like Transformers in the Marvel Universe.
On the same subject : This policy of wacking a new book before the readership gets a chance to digest it? Has that changed? I had folk coming in for months after the Thing "Suddenly" ended for them,...


Well,..
This is what I wanted,.. convo on the topic.

I have two weeks before I go back in there.


V.

 

[Varient]

As far as strip mining for movies, well, that's the bed you jump into where Hollywood is concerned. It's a business. They want ROI right now, not three movies down the road. If they're going to pony up 200 million, they are damn sure going to demand the best stories.

I accept that but WISH they would at least have the comic creators have more control over the content - Maybe have them play co-producers or something.

V.

 

[Varient]

DC having more resources? C I 2 I (see eye to eye on this - no argument.)

Are you high? Marvel makes it money in licensing, merchandise and movies, not comics. You're problem is that you're basing quality on whether or not you liked a given story. For you, Civil War sucked, and therefore Marvel must not have put any work into it. Tell that to Steve McNiven and Morry Hollowell. .

No, my problem in this case is how Marvel is seen from the comic fan point of view - I'm not basing the "quality" on whether I liked it or not,..
there is good stuff I don't like but appreciate because of the obvious effort put into it - example : The Punisher.
I have the same problem with him as I do with Batman. Any Normal human who was THAT MUCH Trouble to the criminals whould find his un-super-powered behind ganged up on by supervillians hired to whack him.
Because of this I can't really get into either character,.. but EVERYTIME I read a Punisher comic I recognise the work put into it.
.

Hey, I don't like the way Bendis is writing the Avengers these days. I ***** about it from time to time. But that doesn't change the fact that I know his egotistical little self is working his ass off along with Leinil Yu and Dave McCaig to put out the best Avengers comic that they know how to make. If you don't like the current storylines, that's fine. But realize that that has nothing to do with the hard work that goes into making these comics the best that they can be.

I can't believe I had to defend Bendis to prove a point that a six year old could grasp.

Chill.
I didn't even go into the convo as far as naming writers that came up last weekend - and Artists and Pencillers didn't even get complaint one,.. Even Cho Got cut slack because everyone agreed that he has spent years doing art at a much slower rate .

No,.. the general on that was if Marvel paid more attention to this part they would return some sort of control over the stuff that was easy to pick out.

Like continuity, Power, and character errors.

You made me smile at the thought of YOU defending Bendis - PROPS.

V.

 

[Not Jake]

I think I can speak for everyone when I say:


shut up, Varient.

 

[Varient]

I think I can speak for everyone when I say:


shut up, Varient.

Not funny.

If you can't defend,.. don't detract.

Not even upset,.. this is SOP here.