Justice League Gal Gadot IS Wonder Woman - Part 1

[souperman]

>"unrealistic comic books" and "real life movies"
>Movie shows a man that can magically fly and giant humanoid insects

Pick one.

Also, making a Superman and WW analogy with Iron Man and BW? In what alternate reality does that even make sense?

First. Irony.

Second, the analogy makes perfect sense. In an all out fight -
Superman>WonderWoman. Ironman >BW.

Simple logic.

 

[Flemm]

Well, sorry it didn't work for you. Worked for me and seems about right as depicted.

The problem is that some comic fans are fine with their favorite character being portrayed as vastly powerful at the expense of other characters, or even at the expense of the overall story.

But that is not good for the franchise as a whole, nor is it really even good for the individual character in question.

Superman had some positive moments in this movie, but that was mostly when he finally got to show a little personality and a sense of humor. Beating up the Justice League for no reason, and then stomping on a comically weak villain... that doesn't really do any favors for Superman, and it completely ruins the whole premise of the movie, which is a team movie.

I don't really expect fans to necessarily look at the bigger picture, but the studio and film-makers really have to.

There's a reason why this universe is a disaster for the most part. I'm not really sure how they can expect anyone to care about any of the minor characters in this movie, since the movie itself doesn't even seem to feel that they are important.

Meanwhile, I'm also not sure what type of story they could possibly tell with this version of Superman that anyone would care about. They almost have to completely revamp the character (yet again).

Wonder Woman at least has her own movie established, but creating a sequel in this "continuity" is going to be difficult. I think Patty will have to ignore it for the most part, perhaps entirely.

 

[The Guard]

I thought Diana was pretty much note perfect. I was glad to see them settle the “walked away from mankind” thing.

 

[anti_alto]

I thought Diana was pretty much note perfect. I was glad to see them settle the “walked away from mankind” thing.

You did? I can tell you it's very, very, very far removed from Marston's vision, diametrically opposite in many ways. Zack struck all the wrong notes for me. Take my head canon and flip it upside down, that's Zack's take on Wonder Woman

 

[souperman]

You did? I can tell you it's very, very, very far removed from Marston's vision, diametrically opposite in many ways. Zack struck all the wrong notes for me. Take my head canon and flip it upside down, that's Zack's take on Wonder Woman

What about Jenkins...(if I spelled it right) ?

Same vision.

 

[Wanda Detroit]

Some Superman fans are on another dimension of delusional. “Unrealistic comics” because the writer dared write that Superman gets his butt whooped by Wonder Woman? Bruh! You actually have to know what she can do and has done throughout her 75 years of comic history to even start a conversation about comparing her to Superman. Guess what? He started off just lifting cars, being fast as a locomotive, and leaping tall buildings. Writers evolve these characters as they wish. Wonder Woman has had her transformations as well. None of them can be dismissed because you don’t agree that she can’t bang her bracelets against his ears and blow out his ear drums. Come on.

Same vision

Where?

 

[anti_alto]

What about Jenkins...(if I spelled it right) ?

Same vision.

Jenkins talks a very good game, it's obvious that she knows her stuff but she WAS operating within the confines of the Snyderverse and there's only so much you can do with that stuff. Still, she made a surprisingly good Wonder Woman movie

 

[The Guard]

You did? I can tell you it's very, very, very far removed from Marston's vision, diametrically opposite in many ways. Zack struck all the wrong notes for me. Take my head canon and flip it upside down, that's Zack's take on Wonder Woman

For this universe and this story, which draws from previous entries in this franchise, absolutely.

 

[kingcharmingman]

The problem is that some comic fans are fine with their favorite character being portrayed as vastly powerful at the expense of other characters, or even at the expense of the overall story.

But that is not good for the franchise as a whole, nor is it really even good for the individual character in question.

Superman had some positive moments in this movie, but that was mostly when he finally got to show a little personality and a sense of humor. Beating up the Justice League for no reason, and then stomping on a comically weak villain... that doesn't really do any favors for Superman, and it completely ruins the whole premise of the movie, which is a team movie.

I don't really expect fans to necessarily look at the bigger picture, but the studio and film-makers really have to.

There's a reason why this universe is a disaster for the most part. I'm not really sure how they can expect anyone to care about any of the minor characters in this movie, since the movie itself doesn't even seem to feel that they are important.

Meanwhile, I'm also not sure what type of story they could possibly tell with this version of Superman that anyone would care about. They almost have to completely revamp the character (yet again).

I agree.

Otoh, if the director really want to highlight Superman over the other member of JL, than they should have promoted Superman aggressively in all marketing & tv spots.

Show a bit trailer how Superman deals with main villain, how Superman so poweful in this movie, then all die-hard superman fans would come to theaters at opening weekend and gave positive word of mouth.

But in marketing, they didnt show Superman except clark kent scene (which in reality was modified), also with the weird superman mouth scandal.

So I think people who came to watch JL initially want to watch Batman and Wonder Woman as main heroes (including myself cos those two are my main favorites), but how surprised that Batman was underpowered (and not that level of smart) almost all the time and WW-Aquaman cant even beat main villain together.

The marketing and the content was inconsistent.

Wonder Woman at least has her own movie established, but creating a sequel in this "continuity" is going to be difficult. I think Patty will have to ignore it for the most part, perhaps entirely.

I watched an interview in youtube, when Jenkins filmed WW she hasnt watched BvS, she was given freedom to interpret WW as Snyder also doing JL at the same time.

She said when her vision completed, Snyder accepted it as he himself hasnt dig deep enough to WW story arc.

That's why i guess Gadot said that when they filmed WW, it has slight different course to what presented in BvS. She called it creative difference.

 

[kingcharmingman]

I agree; I can understand why Superman is depicted as the most powerful, by the simple virtue of excelling very wide array of powers that makes him the most versatile of the bunch. He's extremely strong, he can fly, he's very fast, he's got ice breath, heat vision, x-ray vision, super perception, etc. He really is the best all-rounder.

Unfortunately, some of the more rabid fans want him to be a complete god that overwhelm everything physically just for the sake of it, which just reeks of fan wank. Those who justify that by saying that his enemies shouldn't even try to challenge him physically by finding alternate ways to challenge his character and morals conveniently forget that the very same applies to every other members of the League; furthermore, how does that justify why Superman needs to be overwhelmingly more powerful than everyone else? Making him overwhelmingly powerful compared to the rest of the League for the sake of it is frankly unjustifiable.

Diana should have comparable strength and superior combat training, but she lacks most of Superman's powers, i.e. flight, heat vision. Aquaman should also have comparable strength as well as control of the waters, but again he lacks most of Superman's powers. The Flash should be the fastest member of the League, bar none; if Superman can match his speed then it renders the Flash completely redundant. It's the Justice League, not Superman and his helpers.

I also see Superman as the strongest and most versatile in all JL member.
He deserves that spot.

But, bring a small piece of kryptonite and superman will be totally weak.
That's how to underpower him.

I remember in a JL show where WW is the only member without apparent weakness except for her caring for other JL member.
Also, I think the power level of WW keep increasing along the time, writers keep modifying her ability throughout comics.

 

[kingcharmingman]

That's such nonsense. Oh so he couldn't knock her out with one headbutt, oh yeah that makes her look oh so great (sarcasm). He restrained her with one arm, he ragdolled her around, never once did she come across as any kind of challenge to him whatsoever.

Sorry but the idea that they "made her look good" because a freaking headbutt didn't knock her out (a second one did BTW) is laughably absurd. She gave him ZERO trouble in that fight.

Again there's a reason why Marvel doesn't pull crap like this in their films, because they're not stupid and short-sighted.

I think the fight between WW and Superman cant be used as evidence that WW powerless agaisnt Superman,
She said to other JL member to only contain Superman, not to engage in death battle, she didnt even draw her sword while attacking (as opposite to doomsday fight).

But the evidence of the underpowered WW was when she together with Aquaman unable to beat Steppenwolf while Superman did that easily without breaking a sweat.

That was the negative vibe inconsistent with WW other appearances.
She was very menacing in BvS, she was powerful in WW solo movie, but she has hard time dealing with Steppenwolf (which was less frightening than Doomsday).

That also applied to Batman who was very impressive in BvS, but less threatening in JL.

 

[kingcharmingman]

She was right about bringing Supes back but of course Bats had to be right yet again by knowing to call Lois as a fail safe. Another "Batman is constantly prepared" thing.

I think that dynamic was a great one for JL movie,
The different point of view.
Batman was right and WW was also right, but WW did show leadership as she still with the team and protected everyone even though she didnt agree.
Batman otoh would have abandon the team and proceed on his own.

-------

But the idea of batman resurrecting superman in this film left a bad taste in my mouth.
Would batman really did that? Do the same thing as what Luthor did? With risk creating another doomsday? Or is this a reshoot?

I read that initially it was steppenwolf who tried to resurrect superman but batman already prepared failsafe in Lois.

 

[kingcharmingman]

The way I see it...

Superman was a punching bag for the most of MOS, as he got dicked around by the kryptonians. Nobody said anything.

Superman was hammered by Batman as he was holding back and because of kryptonite. And then he was thrown around like a ragdoll by Doomsday after getting hit by a nuke and several kryptonite bombs. WW was the star of that battle. Nobody complained.

In JL, during Superman's resurrection, they finally showed Superman as THE powerhouse. As he should be.

I say its about damn time.

I think it was meant to be that by Snyder.
It was a logical plot, after he was killed he then resurrected all new powerful and hopeful superhero.

But the problem is general audience was not related deeply to this version of man of steel.
In BvS, the stars are Batman and WW.
Also WW solo movie made many new fans of WW.

The way superman was highlighted at the cost of Batman and WW may disappoint many fans of those two, it resulted in current unperforming box office number...

 

[valmont]

Gal Gadot leads IMDB's list of top stars of 2017 t:

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/gal-gadot-imdb-list-top-stars-2017-1202633093/#article-comments

 

[The Guard]

But the evidence of the underpowered WW was when she together with Aquaman unable to beat Steppenwolf while Superman did that easily without breaking a sweat.]

Sure, Superman beat Steppenwolf handily...after an initial attack against Steppenwolf, and after Diana and Arthur continued to pummel Steppenwolf for a while.

It's not like Superman came into the fight when Steppenwolf was fresh.

Steppenwolf being difficult to defeat doesn't make Diana look bad...it makes Steppenwolf look more capable.

 

[valmont]

One thing that is missing from the film: Diana shows no concern for her Amazon sisters, she knows that a lot of them died during SW attacks, but at the end of the film, she doesn't seem worried about that.
I know...not enough time...but I hope they address it in WW2.

 

[Greenlite]

One thing that is missing from the film: Diana shows no concern for her Amazon sisters, she knows that a lot of them died during SW attacks, but at the end of the film, she doesn't seem worried about that.
I know...not enough time...but I hope they address it in WW2.

She was p*ssed when SW provoked her about the blood of her sisters...but any more concerns probably got cut due to the 2 hr mandate

 

[Micromind]

She was p*ssed when SW provoked her about the blood of her sisters...but any more concerns probably got cut due to the 2 hr mandate

Yes, but they purposefully downplayed that lest it should get turned into a personal revenge story for WW, which is not what her character should stand for.

 

[Web-Head]

 

[Loki882]

Sure, Superman beat Steppenwolf handily...after an initial attack against Steppenwolf, and after Diana and Arthur continued to pummel Steppenwolf for a while.

It's not like Superman came into the fight when Steppenwolf was fresh.

Steppenwolf being difficult to defeat doesn't make Diana look bad...it makes Steppenwolf look more capable.

Not when Superman treats him like a punk while making quips about it. Steppenwolf cannot even land a single blow on Superman.

It makes Wonder Woman AND Aquaman look terrible. Diana and Arthur together where barely keeping up with him, whereas Clark took him down laughably easily.

 

[Micromind]

Not when Superman treats him like a punk while making quips about it. Steppenwolf cannot even land a single blow on Superman.

It makes Wonder Woman AND Aquaman look terrible. Diana and Arthur together where barely keeping up with him, whereas Clark took him down laughably easily.

Not a great way to promote the super hero of your next movie (Aquaman) or the superhero of best received DC movie which will soon get a sequel (WW 2).

 

[Flemm]

I know...not enough time...but I hope they address it in WW2.

I don't know lol... The last thing I would want for the sequel would be time spent on references to ugly yellowish gray animated action figure guy, aka leading candidate for Worst Villain Ever at the upcoming Laughing Stock of the Industry awards show.

Not a great way to promote the super hero of your next movie (Aquaman) or the superhero of best received DC movie which will soon get a sequel (WW 2).

Very true. It's worse for Aquaman, in a sense, because he's not really established yet. Other than the actor's physique, maybe, there's really nothing in this movie that would get anyone excited for his solo movie.

That's not how it's supposed to work.

But that's the sort of problem they have created for themselves. The extended universe is getting to the point where it is dragging down the individual characters.

Somebody has to fix Batman. The Aquaman movie will need to *really* be good for anyone to care at all. Patty will need to make people forget all the mediocre-to-awful extended universe crap for the sequel.

And Flashpoint strikes me as totally unrealistic at this point.

 

[metaphysician]

Flashpoint is just generally a poor idea. It depends on the audience caring about Barry Allen, and about the people whose world and personality just got rewritten. Bluntly, neither is true. The general audience doesn't particularly care about Ezra Miller, and feels similar or worse to the larger setting.

Trying to use Flashpoint would just be flushing *another* movie down the drain, because it is the wrong story to use to try and establish characters and endear the audience to them. Its a character we don't really know or care about, trying to fix things we don't really know or care about, and screwing things up for the world we don't really know or care about. Well, except for Wonder Woman, who hey! We get to see transformed into a warmongering atrocity!

 

[Web-Head]

I agree. Flashpoint is a bad idea, especially with how poor JL did at the box office.

 

[DeadPresident]

Flashpoint being successful doesn't depend on the audience caring about Miller, that's a fairly asinine viewpoint.

Flashpoint's success would depend on the film makers and creatives getting the audience to care about Barry's character in the initial setup to the point where the audience is invested in him resolving the incident with his mother in one way or another. The animated movie does a good job of this and I'm sure it isn't alchemical magic to replicate something similar in live action.

That said, Miller's Flash in JL didn't have the personality or depth that I think his character would need to pull off the arc in Flashpoint properly - so if they did do it and wanted that atmosphere and character arc it would require a pretty big tonal shift from what he exhibited in JL.