The Last Jedi General Episode VIII News/Speculation/SPOILER Thread - - - - Part 13

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[markjoedelonge]

100% agreed. I really hope it goes this direction. My fear is that it won't because I am not as high on JJ Abrams overall as I am Johnson, but I am hoping he runs with that idea. I just don't want the saga to end on a meaningless saber duel between good and evil. I just want more out of my Star Wars.

Shush now, I want my damn lightsaber duel! It's Star Wars!

 

[Spider-Fan]

And yet I can't see how they can avoid it. I said this a while back, but TLJ ends in a way that makes sense for the conclusion of a trilogy, not as the middle chapter, and yet it is the middle chapter. The issue is there's no easy place to go from here one way or the other. If Rey is this powerful now and Kylo is no longer a challenge, and she knows her parents are nobody, what's the underlying character journey we're working with for episode 9? What's the challenge for Rey now that all her questions have been answered? They condensed a trilogy's worth of character arc into two films.

I disagree entirely. TLJ raised some questions about the force and the goals of the old Jedi order. I think it set-up Episode IX wonderfully for a grand conclusion, should Abrams have to creativity to keep taking the story bold directions.

Which poses an interesting question - do you think there's still room for Kylo to come back after this point? After TFA I would have still said yes, long a road as it may have been, but it sort of seemed from this that even Leia's close to giving up on him by now.

Kylo sure seems all-in on the conquerer lifestyle now, not like he didn't have a couple of big moments in the second and third acts to reconsider.

Which sort of gets us to like...Rey's probably going to have to fight him in some way shape or form. Not entirely sure Kylo's going to die, but you'd think an actual throwdown almost has to happen, given where we are.

EDIT: I don't know that Kylo's "no longer a challenge", JMC. They seemed basically equals in the throne room, maybe even with Kylo edging her out a little.

I am sure a fight will happen. I just want the fights to have layers, to have meaning. The duels in the OT were more than good vs evil fights. That is my point. I want Rey vs Kylo to MEAN something. Not just be like the PT, where it basically was "Hey, I am a Jedi. You're a Sith. We fight!" I am just less invested than that. There is less character struggle.

 

[jmc]

EDIT: I don't know that Kylo's "no longer a challenge", JMC. They seemed basically equals in the throne room, maybe even with Kylo edging her out a little in terms of taking on the guards. And all we really know about their natural abilities is they're both big deals. Rey being a bigger deal? Doesn't seem that's been established, they seem like equal mirror-images of each other so far.

But that's still problematic. A hero should never be the equal of the villain. It always should be the hero rising to the occasion to take out the bad guy. That's what makes the victory sweet. There's has to be an imbalance and advantage towards the bad guys in a story.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Shush now, I want my damn lightsaber duel! It's Star Wars!

LOL! Like I said in my above post, it's not that it cannot end with a saber fight, it just cannot be some simple good vs evil scenario. That's too easy for me and I am just not as invested. The OT saber fights between Luke and Vader had layers and other dimensions. It wasn't just "I'm a Jedi, and you're a Sith. Fight night!"

But that's still problematic. A hero should never be the equal of the villain. It always should be the hero rising to the occasion to take out the bad guy. That's what makes the victory sweet. There's has to be an imbalance and advantage towards the bad guys in a story.

I don't think that is true. The hero and villain can be equal opposites.

 

[Aximili86]

Why the hell not? Obi was presented as basically equals with Maul in I, mirror-images, apprentices one light and one dark.

Obi and Anakin in III, despite differences of experience the fight's pretty much even-footed until the end.

As for an imbalance necessary betweens Ben and Rey...Ben's the Supreme Leader Emperor Emo-God of a couple-dozen-capital-ship-strong Space-ISIS now. Rey's...Rey, with a shattered & unfunded ragtag group of nobodies and supposedly no more possible help from Luke.

I'd say, yeah, Ben's got the upper hand as TLJ ends. Who knows? It might not even be a "duel". Dishonorable and self-serving as Ben is, he might confront her with a 20 strong elite stormtrooper flank and a couple of chicken walkers or something. That'd be new. But yeah, nobody likes new anymore, let's start a petition against different.

 

[FunkMiller]

But that's still problematic. A hero should never be the equal of the villain. It always should be the hero rising to the occasion to take out the bad guy. That's what makes the victory sweet. There's has to be an imbalance and advantage towards the bad guys in a story.

Rey is with a couple of hundred rebels.

Kylo has the entire First Order.

I’d say they’re not equal.

EDIT - my man Aximili86 beat me to it t:

 

[Consona]

So they destroyed Vader with prequels. Luke with TLJ. Now Han Solo is next in line...

 

[markjoedelonge]

So they destroyed Vader with prequels. Luke with TLJ. Now Han Solo is next in line...

Han Solo's dead.

 

[Aximili86]

God, what I wouldn't give at this point for a little more elaboration from George, something to the effect of "they didn't destroy Luke, and this isn't Star Wars In Name Only."

We all know the same old peeps would keep it up ad nauseum, though. Innerwebz, you're a fun bunch.

 

[Lilbaz]

Why the hell not? Obi was presented as basically equals with Maul in I, mirror-images, apprentices one light and one dark.

Obi and Anakin in III, despite differences of experience the fight's pretty much even-footed until the end.

As for an imbalance necessary betweens Ben and Rey...Ben's the Supreme Leader Emperor Emo-God of a couple-dozen-capital-ship-strong Space-ISIS now. Rey's...Rey, with a shattered & unfunded ragtag group of nobodies and supposedly no more possible help from Luke.

I'd say, yeah, Ben's got the upper hand as TLJ ends. Who knows? It might not even be a "duel". Dishonorable and self-serving as Ben is, he might confront her with a 20 strong elite stormtrooper flank and a couple of chicken walkers or something. That'd be new. But yeah, nobody likes new anymore, let's start a petition against different.

Or maybe the knoghts of ren might realise they are meant to be in these films and turn up saying sorry boss we were just obliterating any knowledge of snokes backstory.

 

[Aximili86]

The Knights of Ren likely aren't even force users. None of them have sabers in the TFA flashback, and there's that stuff in the supplementary books about young Ben hooking up with a street gang sometime prior to Snoke.

They could just be the street gang, a bunch of ne'er-do-well pirate types who Kylo inspires into the Vader worshippers, copying his look and all.

 

[Consona]

Han Solo's dead.

Wait until May 25, 2018. Then he'll be truly dead.

 

[Aximili86]

You're a cutie, Consona. Nice to see open-minded people still exist.

 

[Consona]

You're a cutie, Consona. Nice to see open-minded people still exist.

Just an 18 years long experience.

 

[Mjölnir]

God, what I wouldn't give at this point for a little more elaboration from George, something to the effect of "they didn't destroy Luke, and this isn't Star Wars In Name Only."

We all know the same old peeps would keep it up ad nauseum, though. Innerwebz, you're a fun bunch.

Given Lucas "enhancements" of the original trilogy, and what he did with the prequels, it's well established that quite a lot of fans don't agree with him on what it means to destroy Star Wars things.

 

[Timebomb]

So they destroyed Vader with prequels. Luke with TLJ. Now Han Solo is next in line...

Still not sure how they destroyed Luke. I thought this movie solidified him as a hero. A hero with flaws but a hero nonetheless.

 

[Spider-Fan]

God, what I wouldn't give at this point for a little more elaboration from George, something to the effect of "they didn't destroy Luke, and this isn't Star Wars In Name Only."

We all know the same old peeps would keep it up ad nauseum, though. Innerwebz, you're a fun bunch.

It would hold no meaning for me. This same guy added so much garbage to the OT that I won't buy the blu ray, and his prequels are awful.

 

[Timebomb]

Let’s keep George away from these films.

 

[Timebomb]

Luke did say that Kylo and a couple of other students destroyed the academy. Maybe those other students are out there somewhere.

 

[Mjölnir]

Still not sure how they destroyed Luke. I thought this movie solidified him as a hero. A hero with flaws but a hero nonetheless.

I'm curious as to how Luke wasn't solidified as a hero many times over already in the OT? It's really only in TLJ that we see him act in a way that would be directly non-heroic.

 

[Brian Braddock]

'Re-solidified' is probably a better term.

 

[darthcoolness3]

Luke did say that Kylo and a couple of other students destroyed the academy. Maybe those other students are out there somewhere.

what if the other students were Snoke's Praetorian Guards that Kylo Ren defeated with Rey?

 

[Orba]

Given Lucas "enhancements" of the original trilogy, and what he did with the prequels, it's well established that quite a lot of fans don't agree with him on what it means to destroy Star Wars things.

The other day I saw someone point out something about George's Vision for the Star Wars. The big "I am your Father" reveal in ESB is one of the biggest shock twists in film history, but it is only a twist because ESB came out before before the PT. People watching the series for the first time are watching them Ep 1-9 (which is the way we should be watching them if we believe in George's Vision) and when they get to the ESB reveal they are probably asking why it took so long for Luke to find out since the audience has known it since Ep 3, the same with Leia being Luke's sister.