Godzilla (2014) - - Part 11

[Leenie]

I hope people aren't having meltdowns over the critics. The critics have been overall positive AND it's Certified Fresh on RT. This isn't at all like the TASM2 threads.

I have a lot of friends who are seeing it tonight (unfortunately I can't), one of them being one of the biggest Godzilla fans I know. I'll be curious to see what they'll think!

 

[Uncle Radiation]

See in several other iterations, Godzilla fights other monsters but is only the lesser of humanity's problems, he is indifferent rather than malevolent.

There's different ways to play that story.

I know, and there are also ones (mainly from the 60s) in which Godzilla is basically a superhero and protector of humanity.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

WHAT. THE. ****.
Are...

are you serious?

 

[redhawk23]

You see it as a joke, I see it as smart & unexpected, it's a very clear & conscious choice by Edwards here that won't please everyone.

For Godzilla not being a factor, what?

Spoiler

he's the only one who can stop the MUTOS and he's always in the background, hell, the opening credits are about him as well. You're not gonna agree obviously, but to me, Edwards just handled it flawlessly, building the movie around the MUTOS first, the MUTOS being directly connected to Godzilla, but it definitely helps a huge deal to read the prequel comics directly tied to it: Godzilla Awakening, it centers around Godzilla, the nuke, the MUTOS appearing (not the same ones) and the MUTOS being ancient predators & enemies of Godzilla, which is touched upon in the movie but not as much, and basically, Godzilla only cares about them, he has to annihilate them. Godzilla's introduction scene during the wave is so brilliant in that way, the savior has come.

For the comics, I'll anticipate the "you shouldn't need to read a prequel comics to know what's going on" by saying it just feels really like the way to get the full experience. Edwards goes against the grain, any other director would have shown that first fight, he goes for the ballsy move and holds it in, some will love it, others won't. That will be the main thing talked about I think.

The crowd I was with laughed. It definitely comes off as a joke.
Its a self conscious fake-out that is just a really odd choice at that moment. Its a choice, one that squanders the impact of that great reveal and roar, and valid grounds for criticism.

Just because a move is "ballsy" doesn't mean its a good choice. Really, why have the first fight at all? It does absolutely nothing to effect the rest of the film. There are no consequences for either Godzilla or the MUTO or really the human characters. Its just a weird little side quest to Hawaii that ammounts to nothing, not even a decent fight. It could have been used to set up the MUTO's a legtimate threat to Godzilla or what have you.

The problem is not only do they completely cut away from the first fight, they cut away from most of the second as well.

 

[Uncle Radiation]

prior to that most of Godzilla's appearances are fake out introductions or him falling over.

Did your audience laugh when [BLACKOUT]Godzilla swatted the first monster into the skyscraper and it fell on him?[/BLACKOUT]

It was a bit slapstick.

 

[Tim_Riggins]

I don't wanna say, but overall, Godzilla movies have had very little actual Godzilla action in them, Godzilla's there for an easy 20 min in this one, but I can understand that some are frustrated.

Edwards explains it very plainly:

“I get strangely more excited about, What if we didn’t do this? That would be rebellious, that would be different,” he said.

"If this was the first-ever Godzilla movie or monster movie or blockbuster set in a city that might be destroyed using CGI, we would have probably just gone for it in the way that everything else does,” he admits. “But you’ve seen that so many times over the last few years. It’s the default third act of all these movies, and that worked against us.”

“You get battle fatigue quite quickly when you have these fight sequences at the end of the movie,” he said. “And you can easily peak and then hit a plateau and then there’s nowhere else to go.”


It obviously doesn't work for some people, but I don't know, we've seen so many movies lately full, full of action to the point where like Gareth says, it just becomes the norm or what is expected.

For the MUTOS, they're a cool concept that allow to bring in Godzilla and a rivalry, Godzilla being nature's weapon (sort of) to restore balance. I don't think you can just have a movie of Godzilla showing up, wrecking **** (not on purpose obviously, he's been a benevolent figure for a while now) with no antagonist, and nothing around it.

That's the challenge, it may be a Godzilla movie, but it still needs a story surrounding it, that makes sense and is not a retread of that horrendous 98 Zilla.

About Godzilla not being the focus, I'm sure if he was there right from the start in the movie, or for like the majority of the movie, it would just be uneventful & some people would just complain as well, it's 100 times more exciting & rewarding (at least for me, but also from a filmmaking point of view) to have your monster off camera or in the background, a phantom presence, only showing bits of it, building up & building up, but I guess that's the problem here for some, that they feel like it doesn't build up to much.

In your opinion, those who feel that way, what should Edwards have done differently?


And about your audience's reactions, if they really reacted like this to those scenes, I don't know what to tell you, we don't have the same perception at all. That scene Uncle talks about was on the contrary a pretty dramatic scene for me without any question

 

[Leenie]

WHAT. THE. ****.
Are...

are you serious?

Armond White is one interesting individual, I'll give him that.

I remember when he gave Scott Pilgrim vs The World a rave review, and Edgar Wright flaunted it all over social media. I would have done the same thing, haha.

 

[redhawk23]

They all cheered at that point.

 

[Liam_H]

Oh yeah I forgot about that moment, felt overly dramatic with the music and stuff. My audience did laugh quite a bit.

 

[redhawk23]

Again Edwards may have an intent, but it ultimately wastes a scene, the section of the film not ammounting to anything. It doesn't move the story along and doesnt deliver on any promise.

 

[Uncle Radiation]

Very first shot of the movie - did anyone think it was a Jurassic Park homage?

 

[Tim_Riggins]

@Uncle: it felt very Jurassic Parkish, and Spielberg is one of Edwards' favorite directors, so yeah.

 

[redhawk23]

I don't wanna say, but overall, Godzilla movies have had very little actual Godzilla action in them, Godzilla's there for an easy 20 min in this one, but I can understand that some are frustrated.

Edwards explains it very plainly:

“I get strangely more excited about, What if we didn’t do this? That would be rebellious, that would be different,” he said.

"If this was the first-ever Godzilla movie or monster movie or blockbuster set in a city that might be destroyed using CGI, we would have probably just gone for it in the way that everything else does,” he admits. “But you’ve seen that so many times over the last few years. It’s the default third act of all these movies, and that worked against us.”

“You get battle fatigue quite quickly when you have these fight sequences at the end of the movie,” he said. “And you can easily peak and then hit a plateau and then there’s nowhere else to go.”


It obviously doesn't work for some people, but I don't know, we've seen so many movies lately full, full of action to the point where like Gareth says, it just becomes the norm or what is expected.

For the MUTOS, they're a cool concept that allow to bring in Godzilla and a rivalry, Godzilla being nature's weapon (sort of) to restore balance. I don't think you can just have a movie of Godzilla showing up, wrecking **** (not on purpose obviously, he's been a benevolent figure for a while now) with no antagonist, and nothing around it.

That's the challenge, it may be a Godzilla movie, but it still needs a story surrounding it, that makes sense and is not a retread of that horrendous 98 Zilla.

About Godzilla not being the focus, I'm sure if he was there right from the start in the movie, or for like the majority of the movie, it would just be uneventful, it's 100 times more exciting & rewarding (at least for me, but also from a filmmaking point of view) to have your monster off camera or in the background, a phantom presence, only showing bits of it, building up & building up, but I guess that's the problem here for some, that they feel like it doesn't build up to much.

In your opinion, those who feel that way, what should Edwards have done differently?

Its not about Godzilla literally being on screen, but a matter that he's not even particularly relevant for much of the film. Everything in Jaws, the dynamics of the human characters, the conflicting interests of safety and tourism etc, revolve around the shark. The same is not the same here with Godzilla. I'd be fine with Godzilla as a "phantom presence" instead he simply isn't present at all for the majority of the film, and then even when he is on screen, he doesn't do much.

Also as far as Godzilla being a restorative agent, its not as if humans themselves aren't a a major threat to nature- this has pretty much been a central theme of the franchise.

If you're worried about fight sequences becoming repetitive then design other kinds of sequences, which they succeed in doing with the MUTOS.

And as for Godzilla, being a hero: That's certainly the case in the film but that was absolutely not the way Edwards and other discussed him prior, nor was it the way the film was marketed, which indicated a return to the root of the character. It really makes me question what their intents were.

 

[Tim_Riggins]

We'll just agree to disagree on this, this is just going to go around in circles.

 

[Uncle Radiation]

I don't wanna say, but overall, Godzilla movies have had very little actual Godzilla action in them, Godzilla's there for an easy 20 min in this one, but I can understand that some are frustrated.

Edwards explains it very plainly:

“I get strangely more excited about, What if we didn’t do this? That would be rebellious, that would be different,” he said.

"If this was the first-ever Godzilla movie or monster movie or blockbuster set in a city that might be destroyed using CGI, we would have probably just gone for it in the way that everything else does,” he admits. “But you’ve seen that so many times over the last few years. It’s the default third act of all these movies, and that worked against us.”

“You get battle fatigue quite quickly when you have these fight sequences at the end of the movie,” he said. “And you can easily peak and then hit a plateau and then there’s nowhere else to go.”


It obviously doesn't work for some people, but I don't know, we've seen so many movies lately full, full of action to the point where like Gareth says, it just becomes the norm or what is expected.

For the MUTOS, they're a cool concept that allow to bring in Godzilla and a rivalry, Godzilla being nature's weapon (sort of) to restore balance. I don't think you can just have a movie of Godzilla showing up, wrecking **** (not on purpose obviously, he's been a benevolent figure for a while now) with no antagonist, and nothing around it.

That's the challenge, it may be a Godzilla movie, but it still needs a story surrounding it, that makes sense and is not a retread of that horrendous 98 Zilla.

About Godzilla not being the focus, I'm sure if he was there right from the start in the movie, or for like the majority of the movie, it would just be uneventful & some people would just complain as well, it's 100 times more exciting & rewarding (at least for me, but also from a filmmaking point of view) to have your monster off camera or in the background, a phantom presence, only showing bits of it, building up & building up, but I guess that's the problem here for some, that they feel like it doesn't build up to much.

In your opinion, those who feel that way, what should Edwards have done differently?


And about your audience's reactions, if they really reacted like this to those scenes, I don't know what to tell you, we don't have the same perception at all. That scene Uncle talks about was on the contrary a pretty dramatic scene for me without any question

I agree completely with him that if the whole film was monsters fighting, the climax wouldn't be special.

But what he's done is confused not showing something, with something not happening in the story. The audience knows those fights take place, we just barely see them. So the climax is still not special, it's just the only monster fight we see.

The obvious answer, the way it should be, is that Godzilla and the other monsters only meet at the climax anyway. I mean, that's so obvious it's amazing the director/writers didn't think of it.

 

[redhawk23]

Or essentially have Godzilla lose the first fight, which would emphasize the threat posed by MUTOs and make him winning the last fight, and the specific way he wins, even more incredible. There's also the matter that the first fight amounts to nothing. Both monsters just kind of carry on their merry way. You could cut out that whole detour of Hawaii and it wouldn't change anything.

We'll just agree to disagree on this, this is just going to go around in circles.

What, can you only discuss things in an echo chamber?

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Armond White is one interesting individual, I'll give him that.

I remember when he gave Scott Pilgrim vs The World a rave review, and Edgar Wright flaunted it all over social media. I would have done the same thing, haha.

Hell has frozen over now that he liked Godzilla.

 

[Rock Sexton]

This too. Trailers were misleading.

Shocker ... LOL

 

[Tim_Riggins]

The first fight is there because they have to show the fact that Godzilla

Spoiler

is tracking the MUTOS

simple as that, plus that's his big introduction. Plus, we just know that the male MUTO is not a threat on its own.

Anyway, we just have a totally different perception of the entire thing, and mostly that first fight, which I thought was a really bold & badass introduction, very smartly done. At least, I'm glad to see Edwards try something different.

 

[Uncle Radiation]

I love the way the atomic breath, or whatever it was this time, was introduced. Godzilla's tail spikes lighting up in the darkness. Fans knew what was coming, and those who didn't were probably quite shocked.

 

[redhawk23]

The first fight is there because they have to show the fact that Godzilla

Spoiler

is tracking the MUTOS

simple as that, plus that's his big introduction. Plus, we just know that the male MUTO is not a threat on its own.

Anyway, we just have a totally different perception of the entire thing, and mostly that first fight, which I thought was a really bold & badass introduction, very smartly done. At least, I'm glad to see Edwards try something different.

His big introduction....which results in nothing. Seriously that intro was so dam satisyfing, with the roar and the upward pan. The cut though was like a balloon deflating.

"Different" alone doesn't really buy favor when the moment plays so odd and entire crowds laugh at a scene that is apparently not supposed to be a joke.

 

[Liam_H]

Wasn't it suppose to be a joke?

 

[Fedor]

Just saw the movie and I have to say that I am disappointed. Godzilla wasn't relevant at all and he could acctually have been left out of the movie completely. Didn't fell like the movie was about him/her at all. The film was about the mutos, that's it.

Also, there wasn't a single WOW/epic moment whatsoever. I was waiting for it but it never happened. Sure the CGI was great and some scenes where "picture cool" but most of the time it was to dark which annoyed me alot.

Also, the human world and the "kaiju" workd didn't feel connected at all. It was like watching two different movies.

Didn't feel for the characters at all. The movie was just flat out strange.

2/5

 

[Lord]

A shame to see the film being such a disapointment, though i think we can both agree that both this one and the 1998 American Zilla film have had some brilliant marketing.

 

[Dispatch Ninja]

A shame to see the film being such a disapointment, though i think we can both agree that both this one and the 1998 American Zilla film have had some brilliant marketing.

Sounds like you're writing off the film before seeing it? Go watch it first and form your own opinion, obviously it's not a disappointment to everyone.