Grant Morrison: I still don't get it

[The BatDude]

Or Leo simply uses glasses and has hair, how about that? With Morrison telling newsarama that Leo is Leo, among with Dwayne Mcduffie not approving the fan theory while he did the script for the movie version when will you guys simply accept that not all fan theories are correct regarding Morrison's work?

Its just a cool way to look at All Star. Nothing is set in stone. Grant likes leaving his work open ended so the fans can decide what they want and he decides what he wants. Look at the Filth, to us its a story of Greg Feely getting hired by the Hand to fight viruses and keep the Status Q in check but to Grant it's a personal story and the same goes for Flex. Isn't that what the ultimate Superman story is all about? The freedom of redemption and all that good stuff.

Next thing you're gonna tell me is that Batman is Orion lol.

Spoiler

and Darkseid is Dr Hurt

 

[Drz]

But we already know Dr. Hurt is a character corrupted by Darkseid, not Darkseid himself.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

An art teacher once told me that art is never totally defined by its creator. Once it's been created, its definition and meaning are as much in the hands of its viewers (or, in this case, readers) as the creator's. The creator's intent is only part of the full content of the work.

So basically, if you don't believe Leo is Lex, you're saying All-Star Superman isn't really art.

(I'm kidding about that last part. I should hope that's obvious, but you never know...)

 

[Tron Bonne]

Or Leo simply uses glasses and has hair, how about that? With Morrison telling newsarama that Leo is Leo, among with Dwayne Mcduffie not approving the fan theory while he did the script for the movie version when will you guys simply accept that not all fan theories are correct regarding Morrison's work?

You keep referencing Morrison as saying this, when he never says anything to disprove the theory and you totally ignore the very end of what he says of that interview. Here's a better idea, why don't you take all of these things that's been pointed out and prove how they do not work in the least in the text to disprove it. If the theory is totally bogus, and there's no warrant to it at all, it really shouldn't be all that difficult to diffuse with some applied looks to the text, right?

EDIT: And if we are going to submit ourselves as slaves to intentional fallacy, the fact that he puts all these little things in here to arrive shows something all in itself. So, pretty much until he comes right and says, 'Oh, yeah, Leo isn't Lex, that's crazy, all that stuff's just big coincidences, kind of neat how life works out like that!' then you can't ignore what the author puts into the text, as much as you can read into his interview where he does not say that.

And I'm not even trying to get you to go 'Ah-ha, it must be, my God', but I don't see how you can't acknowledge something is at least there to make some ambiguity. It's not as if someone is saying Superman is really Batman and pointing to a black shadow and his eyes narrowing as proof or something. There's all kinds of little hints and things to make this parallel and it works for the thematic of the book well.

 

[The BatDude]

Grant Morrison-I had the idea to develop an approach to comic narrative that would actually benefit from becoming entangled in internet fan speculation, gossip and research... It’s proven very popular and will probably become commonplace. TV shows like Lost and movies like Donnie Darko generated the same kind of extra-narrative participation, if I dare call it that!

I’ve always liked to leave resonant spaces, gaps and hints in stories, where readers can do their own work and find clues or insert their own wild and often brilliant theories. I’m often trying to create a kind of fuzzy quantum uncertainty or narrative equivalent of a Rorschach Blot Test effect, which invites interpretation. Lazier readers hate when I do this but fortunately they seem to be in the minority.

Here's the interview

So Lex and Leo

 

[Mr. Earle]

and Darkseid is Dr Hurt

Since the New Gods are platonic ideas of real world things, then it makes sense that every bad guy = Darkseid, and every man who stands up to evil = Orion, or maybe Batman.

Just like the god killing bullet is the template for every bullet ever made.

Here's the interview

I’ve always liked to leave resonant spaces, gaps and hints in stories, where readers can do their own work and find clues or insert their own wild and often brilliant theories. I’m often trying to create a kind of fuzzy quantum uncertainty or narrative equivalent of a Rorschach Blot Test effect, which invites interpretation. Lazier readers hate when I do this but fortunately they seem to be in the minority.

 

[Drz]

So Lex and Leo

That proves nothing, because then 1 would assume Morrison was aware of this or the intention he set for Leo. It's kinda like how he openly admitted he didn't realize the themes of Batman and Robin arcs, or the Batman and Robin #3 arc. These things just happen at times.

Lex won't be Leo in the upcoming movie either and once again Morrison in the interview doesn't directly state that Leo was Lex, yet he was more than open to state Hurt was the devil.

 

[yenaled]

I like the Leo = Lex idea.

Doesn't particularly matter if it was intended or not.

 

[The BatDude]

That proves nothing, because then 1 would assume Morrison was aware of this or the intention he set for Leo. It's kinda like how he openly admitted he didn't realize the themes of Batman and Robin arcs, or the Batman and Robin #3 arc. These things just happen at times.

Lex won't be Leo in the upcoming movie either and once again Morrison in the interview doesn't directly state that Leo was Lex, yet he was more than open to state Hurt was the devil.

You took my post out of context. My comment was for intended for the pic I posted below. If it is true... It'll be a time paradox. Hence the pic, It all comes together t:

Grant makes his villains really similar. Look at Doom, he's basically Lex

 

[HighFivingMF]

So Doom = Lex?

 

[Cobblepot]

But we already know Dr. Hurt is a character corrupted by Darkseid, not Darkseid himself.

What did I miss!

 

[Mr. Earle]

Batdude, why is it a time paradox? Lex went back in time and became Leo to counter the evil he's done as Lex.

 

[The BatDude]

Batdude, why is it a time paradox? Lex went back in time and became Leo to counter the evil he's done as Lex.

It's been awhile but doesn't Lex have to sabotage Leo's mission to the sun. So if Leo is Lex then he knows Superman has to die for Lex to gain the understanding to redeem himself. So Leo being a trickster, he has to set everything up so everything can fall into places... something he learn from Superman.

Maybe I'm reading way too much into this

So Doom = Lex?

More like Lex = the archetype Morrison likes using for all his villains

 

[Drz]

What did I miss!

Batman #702.

 

[HighFivingMF]

More like Lex = the archetype Morrison likes using for all his villains

So Morrison = Lex?

 

[Mr. Earle]

It's been awhile but doesn't Lex have to sabotage Leo's mission to the sun. So if Leo is Lex then he knows Superman has to die for Lex to gain the understanding to redeem himself. So Leo being a trickster, he has to set everything up so everything can fall into places... something he learn from Superman.

Maybe I'm reading way too much into this

Yeah, maybe. But then again time paradox doesnt matter so much when there is a story to be told. See for example how future Solaris makes the JL of the 21st centure construct him. You cant do that because you have to already exist to...

You know what? Its really complicated and it doesnt matter that much.

More like Lex = the archetype Morrison likes using for all his villains

Not really. The characters dont seem to be the same, but rather the response from the heroes. At some point they (and Morrison) get fed up with villains and their bullcrap.

 

[yenaled]

So Morrison = Lex?

Morrison has been writing himself as Lex and Damian for a while.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Morrison has been writing himself as Lex and Damian for a while.

So Lex = Damian?

 

[yenaled]

Exactly.

 

[Mr. Earle]

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Maybe Leo is Leo and Lex is Lex, but they're opposite versions of each other. Leo is what Lex would be if he were good. Bizzaro Luthor.

 

[The BatDude]

Yeah, maybe. But then again time paradox doesnt matter so much when there is a story to be told. See for example how future Solaris makes the JL of the 21st centure construct him. You cant do that because you have to already exist to...

You know what? Its really complicated and it doesnt matter that much.

Lol it's a head trip thinking about of this.

Not really. The characters dont seem to be the same, but rather the response from the heroes. At some point they (and Morrison) get fed up with villains and their bullcrap.

Yea I see what you mean and you're right the hero is fed up because the villain is acting out selfishly or what have you. Grant likes his character either good or bad, there is no middle in terms of motive and action. No shades of gray.

 

[Watchman]

What I like about Morrison's villians is that he always writes them in a petty light. Morrison's villains while written well and not out of character are not someone to be admire. Lex Luthor while a genius and can command robot suns is a narcissistic *****e with vanity issues. Darkseid can enslave universes and his mere pressence can destroy reality has the attitude and the body of a cranky old man with smoking problems. Magneto...I think I'm done touching that one.

It's funny the one villian that is treated with most humanity is the Joker.

 

[Mr. Earle]

What I like about Morrison's villians is that he always writes them in a petty light. Morrison's villains while written well and not out of character are not someone to be admire. Lex Luthor while a genius and can command robot suns is a narcissistic *****e with vanity issues. Darkseid can enslave universes and his mere pressence can destroy reality has the attitude and the body of a cranky old man with smoking problems. Magneto...I think I'm done touching that one.

It's funny the one villian that is treated with most humanity is the Joker.

You were looking for humanity in the god of evil? As for his body, it was explained in the "seven soldiers of victory" (that's the one isnt it?) that the New Gods had to come to earth and take over human bodies to survive. Its like how Lucifer was possessing that guy in Supernatural and the dude's body couldnt hold Lucifer's essense and was falling apart.

 

[Watchman]

You were looking for humanity in the god of evil? As for his body, it was explained in the "seven soldiers of victory" (that's the one isnt it?) that the New Gods had to come to earth and take over human bodies to survive. Its like how Lucifer was possessing that guy in Supernatural and the dude's body couldnt hold Lucifer's essense and was falling apart.

Darkseid's dad didn't love him enough.

Morrison did describe Darkseid as the mean old guy that destroyed footballs that fell into his lawn. I wish I could find that interview.