Green Lantern reboot ideas.

Okay, that's a bit more specific. Thanks for that. Allow me to respond.

My main point, is that a poor GL movie (let's put performance at the box office, and critical reception aside), but a movie that isn't that great,
lowers the public perception of GL as a superhero.

Sure, if you're a fan, you just slap your forehead and go back to reading your comic. Fair enough. I bought "Rebirth" long after the GL film came out, (after not really having read GL since the 80's). But, does it help to attract new fans ? No.

Think beyond the comic book fan-base, and look at the character in the public consciousness. Movies are now the biggest form of expression in the superhero genre, as they reach the biggest audience. So a poor film alienates part of that much larger audience -particularly if it kills off possibility of sequels.

Just how much damage the GL movie did, who can say. You're probably right, not a huge amount - but that's to to the established comic-reading fan-base.
But, as it doesn't promote the character or raise his profile, it's not helping at all - and probably put off some potential readers.

As such, it damages the brand, because it ******s its growth. Comic books need new readers as well as fans to sustain them.

Think of it this way. After the Dark Knight came out Batman sales surged, particularly graphic novels. A whole new audience was introduced to Batman - there are still people whose whole conception of the character is based on the 1966 tv show, sadly.
A good GL film might have done great things for GL, but.......

While I do believe that GL was an inferior film to Thor or Iron Man, that's not the point. The point is that Iron Man wasn't one of Marvel's top characters (well, not at least on a par with Xmen or Spider-Man), yet a highly successful movie franchise have catapulted him into the forefront of public consciousness. A good GL film could have done that for the character too.

The sad thing, is that the GL could have been as good as Thor/Iron Man or even better, given the amazing mythology of the character and his rogues gallery. If you enjoyed it, more power to you, and you won, because you probably didn't feel ripped off by it. I didn't think it was very good, and much as I wish they didn't, the critics and paying audience agreed.

Anyway, that's my take on it, if you disagree I respect your opinion.

I'd sit here and continually argue, but there's really no point/ For the most part, you're kinda right. The movie didn't do Hal any favours. On the hand, the supposed damage I still feel believe ranges from non-existent to barely noticeable.

And dude....I hated that movie:cwink:.
 
^So you don't think people who hear about a new GL movie will recall that the last one was not good?

Do you think this is true for any other characters? That audiences would be interested in a Catwoman reboot? A the Last Airbender reboot? Marvel can't even get Incredible Hulk 2 going, and that was a pretty good film. You believe the natural reaction people have is: "Oh, yeah, that weak movie franchise?" What else would mention of Green Lantern possibly trigger in the non-comic fan? I can't think of anything else someone without an agenda would think, can you?

Plus they can beat Marvel to the punch by having a minority led superhero film first before Black Panther.

I thought about that. I don't think that'd be a good motivation, but it'd be a heckuva bonus. DC should lead in *something*.

Great poster !

You're turning me into a believer. Maybe Stewart as the main character, would work, with Hal and others showing up for cameos/supporting roles ?

Maybe Stewart has to rescue Jordan, who's fallen into Sinestro, or some other bad guy's clutches, while on a mission, or something like that.

Elba has got to headline some kind of superhero film soon, he's just magnificent. Who else could say " Today we are CANCELLING the apocalypse!" and have the audience cheer (most actors would inspire laughter).

Okay, I could see this, but I still reckon you need to throw in Hal, somewhere and definitely Guy, for comic relief.

I think vs Sinestro Corps with a captured Hal could be interesting too. I don't think you should put a bunch of other lanterns in the first film though. There are other comic relief characters that aren't asking to steal the spotlight from the main. Especially if they're going to be lanterns. It would be weird if the rings just happen to choose these four american guys who all know each other and live in the same city.

I'd love to live in a world where John Stewart is famous, but that simply isn't the case. DC has never shown much interest in letting the world at large know about any titular Lantern other than Hal Jordan. Even in the JL 'toon, John was just there without much commentary on how and why he got his ring.

A character's motivation is absolutely essential to selling him/her as a character. Superman has the destruction of his planet. Spider-man has the death of his uncle. What's John have? Almost nothing, just like Kyle and Guy. Poor John isn't even on the cover of the TPB with his own origin tale in it. If John is the GL in JLA, the GA sheeple will just look at him and go, "Huh?"

As you mentioned, John did very well in the ensemble JLA toon without a big origin, so there's no chance of the GA sheeple going huh when they didn't before. There's not a lot of "poor John" to be had.

On motivation, remember not every hero has family member death as the source of their superheroics. Flash, Wonder Woman, Hulk and Thor come to mind immediately. For John, his motivations are pretty prolifically explored in Green Lantern: Mosaic. I haven't read it in a while, but I remember a quest for atonement/penance, which seems to be a very consistent theme for John Stewart in comics. There was some incredible philosophy in there too, self exploration and redefining himself - typical superhero stuff. There was a metaphor for gaining control/mastery of himself by mastering this mosaic environment, him being a mosaic of a man. For an origin film, I'd dumb it down a bit and start with the financial problems from unemployment from basically not knowing how to market himself (meta FTW!) and the guilty conscience from Marine service.

Now if DC isn't interested in doing something that has a lot of promise because they want to push Hal from a personal/political standpoint, that's another thing entirely.

That's exactly what concerns me. The JLA film shouldn't take the GL movie into account at all. Even had it been better, it's yesterday's news because it's not connected via a shared universe. Jordan is bigger than that one incarnation, so using him won't scare anyone away.

However, should WB decide that John be used, he should be given extra screen time for his origin and some other releases prior to the JLA movie. Introducing him as "Here's another Green Lantern because we're nervous about the other one" is a disservice to John, Hal, and the Green Lantern mythos as a whole.

At all? Like they can cast Ryan Reynolds and just put him in a different costume? They need to differentiate or GA sheeple will think they're connected, since, they're the same guy.

The goal for a reboot of a failed property should be to show very quickly and easily this is not like the old one. This is why such an endeavor is rarely taken up, as there are naturally a lot of parallels with reboots. Great when rebooting beloved properties, not so much otherwise. Fortunately for Green Lantern, there's a suuuper easy guaranteed way to do this.

Hal Jordan is not bigger than that incarnation to the tens of millions of people who only know him from that incarnation. How could he be? That's all they know.
 
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As you mentioned, John did very well in the ensemble JLA toon without a big origin, so there's no chance of the GA sheeple going huh when they didn't before. There's not a lot of "poor John" to be had.

On motivation, remember not every hero has family member death as the source of their superheroics. Flash, Wonder Woman, Hulk and Thor come to mind immediately.

At all? Like they can cast Ryan Reynolds and just put him in a different costume? They need to differentiate or GA sheeple will think they're connected, since, they're the same guy.


Hal Jordan is not bigger than that incarnation to the tens of millions of people who only know him from that incarnation. How could he be? That's all they know.

Characters like Hulk have an origin that has been done in non-print forms over and over, as has Flash. Likewise, we've seen Abin Sur passing the ring to Hal Jordan over and over. Yes, he's bigger than the GL movie. That scene is iconic, even to the most casual comic book fan. To date, John has nothing like that. These New 52 animated movies would be a perfect opportunity to do that, but so far DC is still giving us Hal, Hal, and more Hal.

If there is a GL reboot, it will spring from the JLA movie. There is no need to address the Reynolds version at all.
 
A Catwoman reboot could be successful now actually, The Dark Knight Rises made it possible, The Avengers also have the Hulk character new life for a possible new film
 
A Catwoman reboot could be successful now actually, The Dark Knight Rises made it possible, The Avengers also have the Hulk character new life for a possible new film

Which is about what Green Lantern would need to get a second chance, now: a major, well-received performance in a billion dollar hit.
 
^So you don't think people who hear about a new GL movie will recall that the last one was not good?

Do you think this is true for any other characters? That audiences would be interested in a Catwoman reboot? A the Last Airbender reboot? Marvel can't even get Incredible Hulk 2 going, and that was a pretty good film. You believe the natural reaction people have is: "Oh, yeah, that weak movie franchise?" What else would mention of Green Lantern possibly trigger in the non-comic fan? I can't think of anything else someone without an agenda would think, can you?


Green lantern was a bad movie, and I hate it, but its no where near the epic fail of Catwoman or The Last Airbender. It was just bad. If another green lantern movie comes out and gets great reviews, I see no reason why people won't go to watch it. Funny you mention Incredible Hulk. That movie was successful even though it came out after the first one blew-proving my point.

At all? Like they can cast Ryan Reynolds and just put him in a different costume? They need to differentiate or GA sheeple will think they're connected, since, they're the same guy.

Then, I don't know....replace Ryan Reynolds:cwink:

The goal for a reboot of a failed property should be to show very quickly and easily this is not like the old one. This is why such an endeavor is rarely taken up, as there are naturally a lot of parallels with reboots. Great when rebooting beloved properties, not so much otherwise. Fortunately for Green Lantern, there's a suuuper easy guaranteed way to do this.

When DC rebooted Superman and Batman, I never saw them replacing them with Conner and Dick respectively to show they were in a different universe. Point is, you don't have to change the characters to show you're in a different universe. Hal can easily be rebooted as well.
 
Which is about what Green Lantern would need to get a second chance, now: a major, well-received performance in a billion dollar hit.

This is about right. Still I hope they set up these characters to spinoff well.

Characters like Hulk have an origin that has been done in non-print forms over and over, as has Flash. Likewise, we've seen Abin Sur passing the ring to Hal Jordan over and over. Yes, he's bigger than the GL movie. That scene is iconic, even to the most casual comic book fan. To date, John has nothing like that. These New 52 animated movies would be a perfect opportunity to do that, but so far DC is still giving us Hal, Hal, and more Hal.

If there is a GL reboot, it will spring from the JLA movie. There is no need to address the Reynolds version at all.

How does casual comics fans liking a scene change the fact that tens of millions of people identify it with swill? Hal Jordan's comic fanbase is not bigger than that, (is GL selling millions and millions of copies each month?) Hal does not have any influence to supercede that impression of the Abin Sur storyline.

So now that you seem to realize you can't argue against the character having profound resonant motivation, you point out that his origin hasn't been adapted often. This is true, but the same can be said for Thor and Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, Zatanna and a host of other great comic book characters that would make for awesome stories. I'm not sure how "Hasn't been done often" makes it any less awesome. Can you explain your point here?

Now if your point is that DC is going to shove Hal down our throats no matter what, then hey, I agree. As long as Johns has something to say about it, Hal is the JLA GL.

Green lantern was a bad movie, and I hate it, but its no where near the epic fail of Catwoman or The Last Airbender. It was just bad. If another green lantern movie comes out and gets great reviews, I see no reason why people won't go to watch it. Funny you mention Incredible Hulk. That movie was successful even though it came out after the first one blew-proving my point.

If that's your point, it's pretty weak. TIH only made a sliver more than Ang Lee's Hulk. That's what happens when people associate things with an older version, you basically cap off your success. Having a better movie doesn't make much difference unless people don't associate it with the previous one. The reason they wouldn't go watch it is the same exact reason they're not going to go see Catwoman 2, they don't want more of something they didn't like.

Then, I don't know....replace Ryan Reynolds:cwink:

Ah, yes, that's how we know Avengers isn't related to TIH... oh, wait... :cwink:

When DC rebooted Superman and Batman, I never saw them replacing them with Conner and Dick respectively to show they were in a different universe. Point is, you don't have to change the characters to show you're in a different universe. Hal can easily be rebooted as well.

One reason you didn't see that is that they weren't trying to revive a dead franchise. Superman and Batman were doing well, so there was no reason to distance themselves from the previous universe, in fact, the more different it was, the more criticism they got.

You *can* distance with the same characters and looks, but it's much more effective to change as much as you can, so that people can tell just by looking at it, or hearing about it that it's not the same guy in a new costume/a recast.
 
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If that's your point, it's pretty weak. TIH only made a sliver more than Ang Lee's Hulk. That's what happens when people associate things with an older version, you basically cap off your success. Having a better movie doesn't make much difference unless people don't associate it with the previous one. The reason they wouldn't go watch it is the same exact reason they're not going to go see Catwoman 2, they don't want more of something they didn't like.

Say whatever you want or spin it however. The movie was a financial success, and got good reviews; even though he last one was terrible.

Ah, yes, that's how we know Avengers isn't related to TIH... oh, wait... :cwink:


Lol. TIH is connected to Avengers, so.............................:woot:

One reason you didn't see that is that they weren't trying to revive a dead franchise. Superman and Batman were doing well, so there was no reason to distance themselves from the previous universe, in fact, the more different it was, the more criticism they got.

You *can* distance with the same characters and looks, but it's much more effective to change as much as you can, so that people can tell just by looking at it, or hearing about it that it's not the same guy in a new costume/a recast.

Your points here are pretty flimsy. MoS is in a different universe from Superman Returns(which sucked, but didn't stop MoS from making millions). MoS2 will be in a different universe from TDKR. Any criticism they've gotten or will get for creating a whole new universe is fictional and imaginary. If DC wants to bring Hal in this universe, they'll just reboot Hal. Any negative connotations that exist with this do not exist.
 
I'd sit here and continually argue, but there's really no point/ For the most part, you're kinda right. The movie didn't do Hal any favours. On the hand, the supposed damage I still feel believe ranges from non-existent to barely noticeable.

And dude....I hated that movie:cwink:.



Well thanks for that, kinda right for the most part is what I was going for.

To really resolve the discussion, you'd need some figures on whether sales
of GL dipped after the film -but then that's only a partial indicator, so probably not conclusive.

Anyway, we seem to agree that the film didn't raise GL's profile in the wider public consciousness, so it didn't help. That's a good place to stop.

No argument though that the GL movie sucked. It was a missed opportunity of galactic proportions. A real shame, because while they didn't totally ignore the source material, they just executed it so poorly that it ended up being a mess.

Let's hope they get it right next time. Cheers.
 
I think there's a difference.

With Batman, Superman, Hulk, etc, they already earned their way into the public consciousness before their *****ty movies came around.

Despite a crappy Hulk movie, a crappy Batman movie, and a crappy Superman movie, GAs still know that these characters are a big deal, are relevant, etc.
Despite Batman & Robin's failure, Batman Begins probably would have made less money if it wasn't Bruce Wayne in the trailers. Same thing if Superman in Man of Steel wasn't Clark Kent.

(another way to think of it: If Batman & Robin was the first debut of Batman to the public, I don't think Batman Begins would have made as much (and I doubt it would have been made at all)).

With Green Lantern, he's never been a part of the public consciousness before GL 2011. His only perception by GAs is negative -- he's a generic superhero with a lame superpower and even lamer supervillains. Nothing will be lost if they don't have cocky test pilot Hal Jordan in the trailers because they've never liked cocky test pilot Hal Jordan (and they may not even recall who he is).

and I say this as a Hal Jordan fan.
 
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Say whatever you want or spin it however. The movie was a financial success, and got good reviews; even though he last one was terrible.

Having a better movie doesn't make much difference. Ang Lee Hulk was a greater financial success than TIH was. Make a better movie did absolutely nothing to make the franchise more successful.

Lol. TIH is connected to Avengers, so.............................:woot:

So then you see how recasting Hal Jordan does nothing to tell audiences it's not connected. Glad we agree.

Your points here are pretty flimsy. MoS is in a different universe from Superman Returns(which sucked, but didn't stop MoS from making millions). MoS2 will be in a different universe from TDKR. Any criticism they've gotten or will get for creating a whole new universe is fictional and imaginary. If DC wants to bring Hal in this universe, they'll just reboot Hal. Any negative connotations that exist with this do not exist.

Do they exist or don't they?

When DC rebooted Superman and Batman (New52) they got plenty of criticisms for changing things from a beloved version of the characters. But that wasn't the point, the point was that there was no change to Superman/Batman because the GA doesn't primarily think of Superman Returns or Batman & Robin when they think of Superman and Batman.

However, when the GA thinks Green Lantern they think "Oh, that dumb Ryan Reynolds movie" and nothing else. That exists. That's in the public consciousness. No amount of comics they've never read will change that or make it go away. You saying that connotations that exist don't exist is contradictory. Putting a newer shinier Hal Jordan on a movie poster *definitely* won't make it go away, neither will another epic trailer with more CGI aliens and more Sinestro and another Abin Sur death and the same classic Oath. Hal Jordan has a marketing problem because Green Lantern is embedded in the public consciousness as mediocre. The word of mouth on an GL film is automatically bad.

Now if you're saying that they can make Hal Jordan so gosh-darn show-stealing awesome in JLA that audiences will love Hal, you might be on to something... still doesn't bode well for a GL film, as it hasn't done anything for Hulk as of yet, but hey, we can dream.

But if your'e saying all of a sudden human brains don't associate things anymore, because... reasons? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.
 
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You even have some of the GA that think of GL as John Stewart from the JL/JLU cartoon. I feel that anything can be possible at this point really because most likely they're going to be rebooting GL where it's going to be set in the same universe as MoS. Also, recasting Hal would be a better plan along with introducing John Stewart to the big screen as it would differentiate from the Ryan Reynolds version. You just got to have the right people, a very well thought-out script, and a plot to make it all happen. It could really change people's outlook on GL as it did for Superman in MoS (sort of).
 
Hopefully Snyder will be the one to debut GL in this new shared universe, and hopefully he'll do for GL what he did for Superman and Faora -- turn them into complete badasses that everybody wants to see more of.

If he can do that, I don't think it'll matter too much which GL he uses (though I think he'll have an easier time accomplishing this with John).

Hopefully he can do this for WW, Flash, and Aquaman as well.
 
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Having a better movie doesn't make much difference. Ang Lee Hulk was a greater financial success than TIH was. Make a better movie did absolutely nothing to make the franchise more successful.

This is wrong. Check your facts.

So then you see how recasting Hal Jordan does nothing to tell audiences it's not connected. Glad we agree..

What??? That only worked for Hulk because TIH and Avengers were in the same universe. The two cases aren't similar because the point of recasting wasn't to establish the fact they were in different universes. It was done because Norton couldn't return. They can simply do for Hal what they're doing for Batman if rebooting is an option for GL.

Do they exist or don't they?

When DC rebooted Superman and Batman (New52) they got plenty of criticisms for changing things from a beloved version of the characters. But that wasn't the point, the point was that there was no change to Superman/Batman because the GA doesn't primarily think of Superman Returns or Batman & Robin when they think of Superman and Batman.

However, when the GA thinks Green Lantern they think "Oh, that dumb Ryan Reynolds movie" and nothing else. That exists. That's in the public consciousness. No amount of comics they've never read will change that or make it go away. You saying that connotations that exist don't exist is contradictory. Putting a newer shinier Hal Jordan on a movie poster *definitely* won't make it go away, neither will another epic trailer with more CGI aliens and more Sinestro and another Abin Sur death and the same classic Oath. Hal Jordan has a marketing problem because Green Lantern is embedded in the public consciousness as mediocre. The word of mouth on an GL film is automatically bad.

Now if you're saying that they can make Hal Jordan so gosh-darn show-stealing awesome in JLA that audiences will love Hal, you might be on to something... still doesn't bode well for a GL film, as it hasn't done anything for Hulk as of yet, but hey, we can dream.

But if your'e saying all of a sudden human brains don't associate things anymore, because... reasons? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

Lol. I said they were no negative connotations with rebooting Hal. I never said Green lantern was loved by all or remembered fondly.
 
Either way, I'm very sure Snyder or whoever ends up directing will make GL more likable to the GA. Like you said, people want to see more out of the characters like Superman and Faora.
 
OMG! O_O

DENZEL WASHINGTON as John Stewart/GREEN LANTERN in Batman Vs Superman Movie - 2015?!
 
Although I highly doubt this is true, I'd be down.

60 year old John Stewart?!

Sure, why not. It's Denzel.
 
This is wrong. Check your facts.

You may be thinking of this:

Hulk
Budget - 137M
Box Office - 245M
Profit - 108M

TIH
Budget - 150M
Box Office - 263M
Profit - 113M

In which it seems that TIH was a teeny tiny bit more profitable. This should show you that making a much better movie will not get significantly better results if there's a mediocre movie that people primarily associate with the character, and that's for a character that has had many adaptations and appearances through the years. This is a clear demonstration of the mediocre movie still being in the audiences consciousness and limiting how the better movie is perceived. How else can you explain TIH not whooping Hulk at the box office?

What you may not know is that adjusted for inflation, the take for Hulk (2003) is 136M, and the take for Hulk (2008) is 122M which makes Ang Lee's Hulk the most profitable. So in this case, making a better movie didn't even prevent the profitability from going down. So what basis do you have for thinking making a good movie would cause people to forget the mediocre one for Green Lantern? Wishful thinking? Because I have an example of the opposite.

What??? That only worked for Hulk because TIH and Avengers were in the same universe. The two cases aren't similar because the point of recasting wasn't to establish the fact they were in different universes. It was done because Norton couldn't return. They can simply do for Hal what they're doing for Batman if rebooting is an option for GL.

Either recasting establishes different universes or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways.

And what they're doing for Batman is riding on the success of the previous trilogy, so no, they can't do that for Green Lantern.

Lol. I said they were no negative connotations with rebooting Hal. I never said Green lantern was loved by all or remembered fondly.

But you seem to be in denial that GL is remembered negatively. You believe if GL had been a hit he'd be remembered fondly. Since GL was mediocre, does the memory of the movie magically disappear? That's why I don't get your point. If popular movies make a franchise/idea more popular then unpopular movies make it less popular. There's no magical rule that makes movies only have positive effects or none at all.


Okay, that's ridiculous... but I can'd deny that it would be awesome. It also bodes well for the whole thing, since I can't remember Denzel being in a bad movie. I also can't remember him being a supporting cast member either. :(
 
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Now if you're saying that they can make Hal Jordan so gosh-darn show-stealing awesome in JLA that audiences will love Hal, you might be on to something... still doesn't bode well for a GL film, as it hasn't done anything for Hulk as of yet, but hey, we can dream.

And that is with the Hulk having nowhere near the failure attached to him that Green Lantern does. He merely had two movies that were disappointing, but still turned a profit. Green Lantern has one of the biggest money losing disasters of all cinema.
 
This is wrong. Check your facts.

Ang Lee Hulk: 245M gross, 137M budget. Made 1.78x its budget.

TIH: 263M gross, 150M budget. Made 1.75x its budget.

So actually, no. The first Hulk movie *was* more successful, albeit by an admittedly small margin.
 
Also, I really think it needs to be repeated:

Green Lantern was not mediocre. It is not remembered as mediocre. It was a complete disaster that reviewed terribly and grossed terribly. Its impression is not "mediocre" its impression is "bomb".
 
Okay, that's ridiculous... but I can'd deny that it would be awesome. It also bodes well for the whole thing, since I can't remember Denzel being in a bad movie. I also can't remember him being a supporting cast member either. :(

I think he would do it if it also meant a solo project. He also has directing experience as well. In fact, Denzel in this film as Green Lantern guarantees that a new Green Lantern movie may be in the works.

Denzel was a supporting cast member early on in his career. Him as John Stewart pretty much guarantees that there will be a new Green Lantern movie and that they will have beaten Marvel to the punch when it comes to a minority led superhero movie.
 
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How does casual comics fans liking a scene change the fact that tens of millions of people identify it with swill? Hal Jordan's comic fanbase is not bigger than that, (is GL selling millions and millions of copies each month?) Hal does not have any influence to supercede that impression of the Abin Sur storyline.

So now that you seem to realize you can't argue against the character having profound resonant motivation, you point out that his origin hasn't been adapted often. .

Why a GL gets his power is essential. It's not an accident; he/she is chosen because of how he/she handled the events of her life. Actually, it's that way for all Lanterns. Even the JL 'toon barely touched on John's life as a marine, which is why it can't be counted upon to resonate with the non-reading sheeple.

And no comic is selling millions per month, but even a Kyle Rayner fan like myself has to admit that the 6-title Lanternverse that DC has built came because Hal Jordan came back in Rebirth. Check the numbers before Hal came back. DC panicked because GL was in a nosedive ten years ago.
 
GL has always been one of my favorites. I tend to lean towards Hal as my favorite (probably because he's had the most & interesting stories) but I think John Stewart in the film would be cool to see. I can see Denzel pulling off John Stewart, I mean I know his age seems to be a big factor, but the great thing about GL is Hal, Guy, or Kyle could take Stewart's place after awhile. Just say he's busy with intergalactic business, y'know?

I'd prefer Idris Elba as Stewart, but hey... I'd just be happy to see GL on the big screen, hopefully done better this time.
 

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