Green Lantern reboot ideas.

I also think a big problem was Hal was just an unlikeable character. He was so poorly written. For example, his stunt whilst testing the drones cost a load of people their jobs. Then he beats them up? Well he probably killed them seeing as he punched them through solid brick walls lol. How can anyone root for a guy like that?
 
One of the more subtle issues I'd like to see addressed with a Green Lantern reboot would be the handling of the power ring and its energies and constructs. The GL movie had a lot of CGI, but a lot of it got wasted on the constructs, which kind of looked cheap and unimaginative and didn't seem to derive from the ring all that much. The Justice League cartoon got plenty of flack for relatively unimaginative uses of the ring at first, but there's something to be said for establishing the ring's raw power and capabilities before throwing constructs out.

To me, the constructs should be more imaginative and exaggerated. Not just realistic jets and machine guns, but ludicrous 80's style weaponry and sleek air power. Not just a small sword fight, throw a sword the size of a carrier at someone, make a giant spiked fist that looks like something out of Super Smash Brothers, get into a kamehameha-galic gun beam war. Just do stuff that makes the audience think, "What would I create out of the ring?"

And I'm for a brighter green flame design and greater though give to how Lanterns build their constructs, like how Stewart builds different components then puts them together, Kyle's are always changing since he's an artist, Guy's have cartoonish proportions and a general look like a Heavy Metal cover. Y'know, make the audience grin during the building process as well.
 
I also think a big problem was Hal was just an unlikeable character. He was so poorly written. For example, his stunt whilst testing the drones cost a load of people their jobs. Then he beats them up? Well he probably killed them seeing as he punched them through solid brick walls lol. How can anyone root for a guy like that?

It was his job to win the dogfight. What Ferris Air wanted him to do was akin to putting a star running back into the game and telling him not to score. He was doing what he was trained to do. Moreover, he got attacked 3-on-1. How could anyone not defend themselves against such ruthless cowards?

It was a much bigger issue to see Hal quit the Corps. "Quit" shouldn't be in a GL's vocabulary.
 
Stalling out planes is what he was trained to do?? If so, how come he panicked? He didn't defend himself against the "cowardly" drones, he just tried to take them out with him. He was just a jerk, not much more to it.
 
The point is, the drones weren't actually faulty. Hal made them do something they weren't designed to do. It was no fault of the designers/workers. He cost them their jobs just so he could show off. Who wouldn't be pissed off if some big shot *****e bag got you fired through no fault of your own?
 
Stalling out planes is what he was trained to do?? If so, how come he panicked? He didn't defend himself against the "cowardly" drones, he just tried to take them out with him. He was just a jerk, not much more to it.

I think the scene is trying to portray a "cruel to be kind" scenario. The contractors put a ceiling on combat, but Hal is of the mind that there is no ceiling on combat.

He beat the drones and the reason he didn't recover from the stall was the flashback to his father. Another sufficiently capable pilot would have recovered. So in his mind, he was showing how to improve the drones.
 
I also think a big problem was Hal was just an unlikeable character. He was so poorly written. For example, his stunt whilst testing the drones cost a load of people their jobs. Then he beats them up? Well he probably killed them seeing as he punched them through solid brick walls lol. How can anyone root for a guy like that?

The whole point is that Hal starts out as a less than stellar person and grows into a more responsible one. You're supposed to like him for his quality attributes (bravery, idealism, etc) and recognize that he has flaws.

People seem to have an issue with that in the film, but not in the comics.

It's kind of odd.
 
The Hal in the film was NOT the Hal in the comics, though. The key difference is when Hal in the comics was faced with the question of whether or not he would accept this new power/duty, his response was, without hesitation, "absolutely." Whereas in the film, he was like, "you've got the wrong guy!" His entire arc was the age-old "reluctant hero" arc. Hal Jordan has many flaws, but a reluctant hero he is not. That's like his core attribute. As Kurt Busiek once said, Hal's the guy who jumps off a cliff and then figures out how not to die on the way down. He does not hesitate before jumping and say, "I don't know if I can do this."
 
Last edited:
I don't really think "wasn't the Hal from the comics" is a particularly valid argument anymore. You can say that about darn near any superhero film in one respect or another.

Hal did "jump in" during GREEN LANTERN, though. Several times, in fact.

But they have to show character growth and development, and in order to do that, you have to start somewhere and solidify the character's flaws, conflicts, etc. Structurally and dramatically.

It seems kind of silly to say "well he's this brave, courageous , generally decent guy, oh, except he has no sense of responsibility for some reason". That doesn't really compute. That makes for a fairly lame character arc, from "Already kind of a hero" to "an actual hero". That's not terribly interesting in terms of conflict.

The point of the film (and in the comics, really) is that he found something constructive to DO with his ability to overcome fear that bettered him as a person.

Hal in the comics has had self doubt. He's run away from things before. He just didn't do it in the same order. Getting a power ring shouldn't automatically make someone accept responsibility.

And I've seen Hal question the ring and his right to it several times over the years in the comics. They just had him do it early on. Which makes perfect sense.
 
Last edited:
Stalling out planes is what he was trained to do?? If so, how come he panicked? He didn't defend himself against the "cowardly" drones, he just tried to take them out with him. He was just a jerk, not much more to it.

Yes, he was trained to win at all costs. He used an unorthodox method and it worked. If you remember, Ferris acknowledged that the drone improvements did indeed get made, proving Hal right.

But you're right in the assertion that Hal had some jerk tendencies. Each Green Lantern did, with Guy being such a jerk that even the other GL's didn't like him. Arrogance seems to come with having the willpower to get the ring.


The point is, the drones weren't actually faulty. Hal made them do something they weren't designed to do. It was no fault of the designers/workers. He cost them their jobs just so he could show off. Who wouldn't be pissed off if some big shot *****e bag got you fired through no fault of your own?

I'd be angry at my boss for setting up that kind of scenario with so much riding on it. However, that is still no excuse for getting all liquored up and attacking a guy 3-on-1. Bob Banks and his troglodyte buddies got what they deserved.

The Hal in the film was NOT the Hal in the comics, though. The key difference is when Hal in the comics was faced with the question of whether or not he would accept this new power/duty, his response was, without hesitation, "absolutely." Whereas in the film, he was like, "you've got the wrong guy!" His entire arc was the age-old "reluctant hero" arc. Hal Jordan has many flaws, but a reluctant hero he is not. That's like his core attribute. As Kurt Busiek once said, Hal's the guy who jumps off a cliff and then figures out how not to die on the way down. He does not hesitate before jumping and say, "I don't know if I can do this."

That's the exact point where the film lost steam. I believe it was Secret Origin where Sinestro and Hal meet for the first time and Sinestro says something like, "You shouldn't challenge those who are more powerful than you." To which Hal responds, "That's not going to work for me." Jordan is a lot of things, not all of them pleasant, but he's never been tentative.
 
They got punched through solid brick walls. They are probably dead.
 
I don't really think "wasn't the Hal from the comics" is a particularly valid argument anymore. You can say that about darn near any superhero film in one respect or another.

Hal did "jump in" during GREEN LANTERN, though. Several times, in fact.

But they have to show character growth and development, and in order to do that, you have to start somewhere and solidify the character's flaws, conflicts, etc. Structurally and dramatically.

It seems kind of silly to say "well he's this brave, courageous , generally decent guy, oh, except he has no sense of responsibility for some reason". That doesn't really compute. That makes for a fairly lame character arc, from "Already kind of a hero" to "an actual hero". That's not terribly interesting in terms of conflict.

The point of the film (and in the comics, really) is that he found something constructive to DO with his ability to overcome fear that bettered him as a person.

Hal in the comics has had self doubt. He's run away from things before. He just didn't do it in the same order. Getting a power ring shouldn't automatically make someone accept responsibility.

And I've seen Hal question the ring and his right to it several times over the years in the comics. They just had him do it early on. Which makes perfect sense.
The problem isn't that they changed Hal from the comics, the problem is that the person they changed him into sucked, and was a primary reason critics accused the movie of having a bland and weak main character. He WAS bland and weak. And it just so happens that he wouldn't have been so if they'd kept his character closer to the comics and didn't go with the "reluctant-hero-by-numbers" character arc.

Hal could have easily had a character arc without being a reluctant, whiny hero who doubts himself at every turn.
 
The whole point is that Hal starts out as a less than stellar person and grows into a more responsible one. You're supposed to like him for his quality attributes (bravery, idealism, etc) and recognize that he has flaws.

People seem to have an issue with that in the film, but not in the comics.

It's kind of odd.

The reason is because his quality attributes were shown inconsistently (sometimes he's brave sometimes he's not... is it Tuesday?) and his flaws had pretty tragic consequences.

The point is, the drones weren't actually faulty. Hal made them do something they weren't designed to do. It was no fault of the designers/workers. He cost them their jobs just so he could show off. Who wouldn't be pissed off if some big shot *****e bag got you fired through no fault of your own?

Boom.

I think the scene is trying to portray a "cruel to be kind" scenario. The contractors put a ceiling on combat, but Hal is of the mind that there is no ceiling on combat.

He beat the drones and the reason he didn't recover from the stall was the flashback to his father. Another sufficiently capable pilot would have recovered. So in his mind, he was showing how to improve the drones.

The reason it failed is because that was clearly not the goal of the test, and they asked him to stop when he began to be cruel to be kind. Also, Hal may have improved the drones, but it didn't help anyone, company still laid off a bunch of people, and the drones didn't need any extra altitude to help him against Parallax. It was an utterly selfish bad call, the way the movie portrayed it.

The Hal in the film was NOT the Hal in the comics, though. The key difference is when Hal in the comics was faced with the question of whether or not he would accept this new power/duty, his response was, without hesitation, "absolutely." Whereas in the film, he was like, "you've got the wrong guy!" His entire arc was the age-old "reluctant hero" arc. Hal Jordan has many flaws, but a reluctant hero he is not. That's like his core attribute. As Kurt Busiek once said, Hal's the guy who jumps off a cliff and then figures out how not to die on the way down. He does not hesitate before jumping and say, "I don't know if I can do this."

Exactly! The film started in this vein with him being a pilot, even though that's his greatest fear, cool... but then it paralyzes him? Okay... then later, confronted by fear, he mopes around his apartment and needs a pep talk!? That's not just an unlikeable character, that's a badly written one.

But they have to show character growth and development, and in order to do that, you have to start somewhere and solidify the character's flaws, conflicts, etc. Structurally and dramatically.

It seems kind of silly to say "well he's this brave, courageous , generally decent guy, oh, except he has no sense of responsibility for some reason". That doesn't really compute. That makes for a fairly lame character arc, from "Already kind of a hero" to "an actual hero". That's not terribly interesting in terms of conflict.

The point of the film (and in the comics, really) is that he found something constructive to DO with his ability to overcome fear that bettered him as a person.

Hal in the comics has had self doubt. He's run away from things before. He just didn't do it in the same order. Getting a power ring shouldn't automatically make someone accept responsibility.

And I've seen Hal question the ring and his right to it several times over the years in the comics. They just had him do it early on. Which makes perfect sense.

How MovieHal expresses his self doubt is inconsistent, and the character he starts as, before he grows, is not likeable. When other superheroes start out, they are quickly likeable, even with their flaws. Their positive qualities are consistent and compelling. This was not true of Green Lantern, his positive qualities were inconsistent and not compelling. The plane scene is a great example of showing how Hal is an impetuous out of the box thinker, but in order to do so, he betrays the woman who cares about him, messes up his employer, defies orders and produces nothing of any use to anyone. Everyone's life is worse off because Hal is an out of the box thinker here, and no one's life is better off.

Yes, he was trained to win at all costs. He used an unorthodox method and it worked. If you remember, Ferris acknowledged that the drone improvements did indeed get made, proving Hal right.

But you're right in the assertion that Hal had some jerk tendencies. Each Green Lantern did, with Guy being such a jerk that even the other GL's didn't like him. Arrogance seems to come with having the willpower to get the ring.

So, when faced with air force pilot training (which apparently is win at all costs) and direct orders from his bosses (show off the product, stop flying so high), Hal is the type of guy who will do whatever he wants, regardless of what job he's been assigned, regardless of who will get hurt in the process, regardless of how important it is to everyone else, Hal was TRAINED, by the MILITARY to DEFY ORDERS and WIN no matter what? Is that what you're telling me?

No, sir. Movie Hal was a grade A *****e, of Guy-like proportions, unlike John, Kyle or Comic Hal. Hal was right that the drones had a ceiling, but that 'rightness' benefited who? The company he set up for bankruptcy? Those improvements will never see daylight. There's no upside to this flaw, on any level, so it's not appreciable.
 
So, when faced with air force pilot training (which apparently is win at all costs) and direct orders from his bosses (show off the product, stop flying so high), Hal is the type of guy who will do whatever he wants, regardless of what job he's been assigned, regardless of who will get hurt in the process, regardless of how important it is to everyone else, Hal was TRAINED, by the MILITARY to DEFY ORDERS and WIN no matter what? Is that what you're telling me?

No, sir. Movie Hal was a grade A *****e, of Guy-like proportions, unlike John, Kyle or Comic Hal. Hal was right that the drones had a ceiling, but that 'rightness' benefited who? The company he set up for bankruptcy? Those improvements will never see daylight. There's no upside to this flaw, on any level, so it's not appreciable.

Yes, he was trained to win the dogfight; he was trained to use his talent. Carol had doubts about him in the exercise. It wasn't Jordan's fault that he was doing what he was programmed to do. If there is a scapegoat (which there shouldn't be, since it was stated that Hal had improved the design) it was Carl Ferris. It was ultimately his decision to use Jordan.

And while there are aspects of movie Hal that didn't jive with his comic origins, his cockiness and recklessness was straight from the comic. In his first few issues in Vol. 2 (somewhere around 1960) he used his ring to create a giant monster just to avoid a romantic advance from Carol. He eventually stopped the monster before it did any real damage, but young Hal wasn't the avatar of a hero. That took time.
 
Hal Jordan being unlikable before he become a GL is a part of his character, so if he is shown as irresponsible, *****e, arrogant then they are portraying him as he should be portrayed before he gets the ring.

That is how it is in the source material, if people (moviegoers) find it difficult to accept such a man becoming a selfless- fearless superhero then it's their problem.

A reboot is not going to solve the issue of how Hal Jordan behaves before becoming a GL, in fact his origin as shown in earlier books (Emerald Dawn), Hal was shown as drunk jerk who runs his car over some of his friend killing them.

Edit: People want Hal to behave like Peter Parker or Clark Kent, which is just wrong.
 
Yes, he was trained to win the dogfight; he was trained to use his talent. Carol had doubts about him in the exercise. It wasn't Jordan's fault that he was doing what he was programmed to do. If there is a scapegoat (which there shouldn't be, since it was stated that Hal had improved the design) it was Carl Ferris. It was ultimately his decision to use Jordan.

And while there are aspects of movie Hal that didn't jive with his comic origins, his cockiness and recklessness was straight from the comic. In his first few issues in Vol. 2 (somewhere around 1960) he used his ring to create a giant monster just to avoid a romantic advance from Carol. He eventually stopped the monster before it did any real damage, but young Hal wasn't the avatar of a hero. That took time.

Yeah, sorry, pilots aren't trained to stall their planes. That was the point, that he did things he wasn't trained to do, even when told not to do those things. If Carl Ferris is at fault for relying on Hal Jordan to do what he's asked by his boss, then Carl Ferris is at fault for hiring Jordan. If we are blaming Carl for hiring Jordan because he doesn't do what his boss asks him to do, then we are confirming that he is an insufferable person who should not be employed, and that anyone who sees value in him, supports him and believes in him is at fault.

His cockiness and recklessness was inconsistent at best. He got paralyzed in his first fight and needed a pep talk in the end. So it wasn't straight from the comic, that was the problem. Not much of a redeeming quality when it only shows up for about five minutes of the film, and destroys people's lives who are never remembered again.

Hal Jordan being unlikable before he become a GL is a part of his character, so if he is shown as irresponsible, *****e, arrogant then they are portraying him as he should be portrayed before he gets the ring.

That is how it is in the source material, if people (moviegoers) find it difficult to accept such a man becoming a selfless- fearless superhero then it's their problem.

A reboot is not going to solve the issue of how Hal Jordan behaves before becoming a GL, in fact his origin as shown in earlier books (Emerald Dawn), Hal was shown as drunk jerk who runs his car over some of his friend killing them.

Edit: People want Hal to behave like Peter Parker or Clark Kent, which is just wrong.

You're confused. People want the character to be likeable while being flawed, like Tony Stark, or Jack Sparrow, or any other loveable *****e or any main character from any great movie. He was not. He was an unlikeable *****e, that is the problem. Not that he was flawed, but that his flaws were utterly abhorrent and far outstriped his redeeming qualities, which were inconsistent at best.

So is that clear now? He should have flaws AND be likeable from the outset. This is what good films do, this is what Green Lantern failed to do.
 
Last edited:
You're confused. People want the character to be likeable while being flawed, like Tony Stark, or Jack Sparrow, or any other loveable *****e or any main character from any great movie. He was not. He was an unlikeable *****e, that is the problem. Not that he was flawed, but that his flaws were utterly abhorrent and far outstriped his redeeming qualities, which were inconsistent at best.

So is that clear now? He should have flaws AND be likeable from the outset. This is what good films do, this is what Green Lantern failed to do.

I know that in a movie they have to show his positive side too and make him somewhat likeable.

But my point is... that Hal Jordan is the most unlikeable character who becomes hero afterwards, more then any other hero like Tony Stark or Jack Sparrow.

When the reboot happens.. they will have to show his unlikeable side too, and that is more pronounced compared to any other existing comic book hero out there, which will not help Hal Jordan get general audience approval, even when his "other positive" side is shown to them.
 
Last edited:
There wasn't nearly enough training for Hal in the film. We should have seen him and Sinestro going to an alien planet and doing GL things. Hal learning the ropes while Sinestro does...questional things. A plot could form through that experience.
 
There wasn't nearly enough training for Hal in the film. We should have seen him and Sinestro going to an alien planet and doing GL things. Hal learning the ropes while Sinestro does...questional things. A plot could form through that experience.

The script was a total mess. So was the production design and soundtrack.
 
Problem is, if your supposed likeable *****e (Hal) is less likeable than another likeable *****e who makes money by being a war profiteer of all things (Stark) you're in trouble.

See with Stark we kinda understand and can sympathise with him. He's got his daddy issues, and that aspect is the most consistently well written part of the character imo. The disappointing IM2 even did that really well, the scene where Tony is watching the old films of his dad for example.

With Hal? Well they were going for a similar kind of thing with the father issues. But it was executed soooooo poorly. The whole death scene and flash back was almost comedic in my eyes. Hal has no redeeming qualities at all.
 
I know that in a movie they have to show his positive side too and make him somewhat likeable.

But my point is... that Hal Jordan is the most unlikeable character who becomes hero afterwards, more then any other hero like Tony Stark or Jack Sparrow.

When the reboot happens.. they will have to show his unlikeable side too, and that is more pronounced compared to any other existing comic book hero out there, which will not help Hal Jordan get general audience approval, even when his "other positive" side is shown to them.

Again, you're confusing 'flawed' with 'unlikeable.' They are two different things, especially in storytelling. Hal may be the most flawed hero (he's not even close, but whatever), but if he is also unlikeable, then the audience will not and should not care about him.

His flaws themselves can be likable if they are A) consistently portrayed both to his advantage and disadvantage B) realistic and make sense with his background C) are done artistically well so that the audience feels them. D) Contrasted with strong positive qualities.

These things happen to likeable flawed characters. None of this happened with Hal in Green Lantern.

As for your point, no, Hal Jordan has nothing on Tony Stark, who did everything bad Jordan did and then some, or Jack Sparrow, who is one kicked kitten away from being a villain, heck Han Solo is only in it for the money and the girl until the last two minutes, he only does one good thing the whole first movie. Riddick is by all measures and rationales a villain. This is what movie protagonist *****ebaggery is, and Hal Jordan isn't even in the top five. He may not even be in the top ten, and he lacks much of anything to make him likeable.

EDIT: Many fans rag on Emerald Dawn for making Hal too flawed, and that they didn't like him for that, but Emerald Dawn did a much better job of making Hal likeable than the movie did. From the outset, it shows you that his family legacy gives him problems that aren't his fault, things that affect his job, and his family is trying to help, but it ends up hurting him in the long run. That's something nearly all of us have experienced, that instantly clicks. It keeps going instantly exposing him to his weakness and having his father, his daddy issues, haunt him. It is far less concerned with making Hal seem cool than making Hal seem real and understandable. Then, after you have a compelling flawed character, he begins to grow. Awesome.
 
Last edited:
You're confused. People want the character to be likeable while being flawed, like Tony Stark, or Jack Sparrow, or any other loveable *****e or any main character from any great movie. He was not. He was an unlikeable *****e, that is the problem. Not that he was flawed, but that his flaws were utterly abhorrent and far outstriped his redeeming qualities, which were inconsistent at best.

So is that clear now? He should have flaws AND be likeable from the outset. This is what good films do, this is what Green Lantern failed to do.

That certainly was not Tony Stark in Iron Man. He was a pompous, sexist, serial womanizer when we met him. He didn't show his heroic nature until he returned to Afghanistan to save those villagers.

As for Hal, for all of his cockiness, there were plenty of redeeming qualities. From the outset, we saw that despite his womanizing, he truly cared for Carol. He tried to save Abin Sur, nearly broke into tears when he died, then buried him out of respect. He also defended Hector when Senator Hammond was backhandedly humiliating Hector.

I'll agree that Hal had some inconsistencies, but he wasn't irredeemable as you are suggesting. In fact, I would say Hal wasn't quite arrogant enough in the movie. It would have been more in the tradition of the comic to have Tomar and 'Wog have to pull Hal and Sinestro apart during their training rather than seeing Hal become despondent.
 
Stark was a likeable pompous, sexist, serial womanizer though. Proven by the fact that RDJs Stark is pretty much universally loved. RDJ is now a huge star earning 20 million a film.

Reynolds' Hal Jordan? Well let's be honest, it pretty much killed his career before it truly got going.
 
Tony Stark is the textbook definition of likable *****e. To deny that is to overlook 3 billion dollars worth of box office receipts. Clearly he's likable, and has been from the start.
Ryan Reynold's Hal Jordan doesn't even come close. His personality was almost non existent, his backstory uninteresting, his motivations paper thin, the list goes on. If he was "likable" I certainly didn't hear about it from anyone.
 
^Exactly, Flint.

That certainly was not Tony Stark in Iron Man. He was a pompous, sexist, serial womanizer when we met him. He didn't show his heroic nature until he returned to Afghanistan to save those villagers.

As for Hal, for all of his cockiness, there were plenty of redeeming qualities. From the outset, we saw that despite his womanizing, he truly cared for Carol. He tried to save Abin Sur, nearly broke into tears when he died, then buried him out of respect. He also defended Hector when Senator Hammond was backhandedly humiliating Hector.

I'll agree that Hal had some inconsistencies, but he wasn't irredeemable as you are suggesting. In fact, I would say Hal wasn't quite arrogant enough in the movie. It would have been more in the tradition of the comic to have Tomar and 'Wog have to pull Hal and Sinestro apart during their training rather than seeing Hal become despondent.

Actually, our introduction to Tony Stark is him being a cool playful celebrity with some soldiers, and then getting blown up. We already like him, and are rooting for him in his problem when we find out what's wrong with him. They could have started with the award show montage and *****eyness, but they thought it was more important that the audience like the character first. Too bad the GL team didn't take notes on that.

We didn't see that he truly cared for Carol because their first interaction he's mocking her, ignoring her and then betraying her in combat. We didn't see that he was respectful or moved to tears by the suffering of others, because he showed no such attributes to any other person he came across. He did nice things, but he did them at random, which means he's not a nice person, he just happened to do random good things sometimes for bad writing reasons.

And it has nothing to do with him being irredeemable or not, it has to do with whether anyone cares about him being redeemed. But I agree, if Hal had been consistent, it would have been Kilowog seaprating them, it would have been Carol and Tom trying to talk him down than talk him up. The movie would have had a frenetic fast paced act first think later lead and it would have been a better film.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"