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Guggenheim to explain Logan's Healing

FadingCB said:
Honestly I wouldn't since we have tons of others going atm lol and it'll prob turn into a 40 page denial fest like the Hulk one on both sides, and not to derail but I disagree. DD wore himself out hitting on Kingpin in their first fight, he couldn't damage him and instead hurt himself in the process and Kingpin one hit KO'd him. I don't see how kicking adamantium with full force wouldn't hurt him more than hitting Kingpin (I know he's muscle and not fat). Not to count Wolverine's trained in every MA like Batman even if it doesn't show in comics more recently, count in his healing factor, and him being a metahuman in everything from agility to strength (900 pounds to caps' 800), and his heightened senses and he SHOULD be too much for DD IMO. Just as Spiderman should be too much for DD too. DD's beaten both tho, and while I like DD I don't think he should be knocking out guys who go toe to toe with Hulk, and I don't think he should be able to defeat Ultron which he's done also. Not a bash on DD, just my opinion.
This is a bad post. You see, your argument about hitting adamantium--it just doesn't hold water. Nobody else hurts their hand when they punch him, why should DD? At least, I never see anyone remark how their hand hurts after they hit him. And again, DD can hit muscle with precision, he wouldn't even have to hit Wolverine's precious dog-face.:o DD is way over his amateur hour Kingpin performance, as he just mercilessly beat the guy half to death a little while ago when he declared himself the new Kingpin. Also I'm not sure that Wolverine's stronger than Captain America.:huh: But that heightened senses thing, man, that really screws over DD. If only DD had some sort of heightened senses, he could compete with Wolverine. But, seeing as he doesn't, I guess you win the argument.
 
Genesis 1.0 said:
As I recollect you seem to have an interesting view of things that are 'okay' and 'interesting' when it comes to Wolverine, a character that you obviously don't have anything against.

As to what past writers have been able to do without powering him up, something you think of as a cop out do you justify DD and the Hand beating Wolverine as 'interesting' writing under an artist?
the hand never beat wolverine and im quite sure dd never did either.if ur talkin about the whole "enemy of the state" thing it wasnt the hand, but the gorgon who beat him( hes one bad mutha) and the whole fight between wolverine and dd during that series was a plot to distrat him and lure out elektra.who they wanted
 
roach said:
Newsarama......
So – back in Wolverine #43, the second issue of Marc Guggenheim and Humberto Ramos’ run, the titular hero of the title was burned down to his adamantium skeleton by Nitro, the same villain who, when it all comes down to it, is kinda responsible for this Civil War thing going on.

Of course, the issue before that, Wolverine survived a plane crash that killed everyone else aboard. Of course Guggenheim’s no sadist – he doesn’t have a jones for trying to kill Wolverine, he’s just following in the tradition laid down by dozens of writers before him – stab, shoot, dismember, burn, blow up, grind, or vaporize Wolverine, and he’ll come back. Sure – there are issues among fans in regards to how badly you can hurt Wolverine and still have him come back, but safe to say, at least for the past decade or so, the constraints have been pulled off, and as long as you’ve got one cell left, you can bet that Wolverine will return.

But – if Wolverine’s body is virtually destroyed…where does his mind go? Where does his soul go? Does he even know? Does he even care?

Guggenheim cares – and this week’s Wolverine #48 is his place to play around with the questions. We caught up with the writer to talk about the issue, the character, his upcoming Marvel Comics Presents run…which isn’t happening just as planned…and more.

Newsarama: So basically, with #48…you burned Wolverine up early on in your run, and now you have to explain how he's still alive and kicking. Does that about sum up the larger editorial mission of #48?

Marc Guggenheim: Not really. Actually, I'm glad you asked the question because it gives me an opportunity to clear up what I've been perceiving as a misunderstanding about the genesis of this issue. For one thing, there was no "editorial mission," as you put it. In fact, I had a totally blank canvas for Issue 48 -- it didn't even have to relate to "Vendetta," my Civil War tie-in story, if I didn't want it to. I really appreciated Wolverine editor Axel Alonso giving me that kind of leeway, because one of the Wolverine runs I took inspiration from was Mark Millar's, and I always loved how he ended his run with the self-contained Holocaust story and wanted to do something similar -- i.e., a powerful, impactful, self-contained issue. Towards that end, I started kicking around an idea that I thought would work as a self-contained story. The idea centered around a question I've had for a number of years: When Wolverine suffers the kind of injury that would conceivably destroy his brain, how does he manage to regenerate from it with his personality and memories intact? I pitched the explanation to Axel for issue #48 and he liked it, but correctly pointed out that there was too much story there for 22 pages. So I suggested revealing the explanation in issue #48, but leaving the explanation's backstory - the explanation for the explanation, if you will - for a future story arc.

Somewhere along the line, it occurred to me that this idea I had for issue #48 could "speak to" the larger "Vendetta" arc. Basically, there were more than a few instances in that arc -- which I was only half-way through writing at that point -- where I'd be giving Wolverine the kind of brain-destroying injuries that I was looking to explain in issue #48, so there was a potential point of connection. From there, I came up with a(nother) crazy idea: Make the plot of issue #48 contemporaneous with the plot of issues #42 through #47; basically, tell the story that was taking place "between the panels" of that issue. Once again, Axel -- who I'm now convinced just likes to play Russian roulette with both of our careers -- gave me his blessing.

NRAMA: And all of that came before the plan to burning him to a crisp?

MG: Right - this was all conceived of before the now-infamous "melting" of Wolverine in issue #43. In fact, when issue #43 damaged the structural integrity of the Internet (or somesuch), I commented to online journalist, Remy Minnick, "Great. Now everyone's going to think I'm doing this story to explain away the controversy."

But here's the funny thing: I never thought burning Wolvie down to his adamantium would be controversial in the first place. It always struck me as just another day at the office for Logan.

NRAMA: Right – there’s precedent for this kind of regeneration…including, among others, that Uncanny X-Men Annual where Wolverine came back from a drop of blood…

MG: Thank you!!! Someone's been listening to me!

NRAMA: But for this one – you burned him pretty conclusively. Without telling the story - what is the anchor for Wolverine in this regeneration? A few cells left alive, somewhere in al of that heat?

MG: There are certainly a few cells left for Wolverine to regenerate from - more than a few, actually. I think that was one of the reasons I didn't think his regeneration in this instance would be so controversial. The other reason is -- as you point out -- there's precedent for this kind of regeneration. In addition to the Claremont/Davis moment, Daniel Way has hit the guy with a nuke, Mark Millar incinerated him in an oven and Grant Morrison and Garth Ennis have also done some equally nasty stuff to him.

NRAMA: As you seem to be wanting to delve more into the metaphysical issues around complete morphological regeneration…where does Wolverine "go" for lack of a better term when this level of destruction occurs? Obviously, it’s hard to have thoughts when you don’t have a brain…

MG: Ah, that would be telling.

NRAMA: When writing comics, writers have always been able to wave their hands a little and invoke "comic book science," but you've got a couple of things working against that here - a sophisticated audience, and you pushed the limit to an extreme condition for Wolverine…

MG: That's the funny thing: Given the source material I mentioned above, it never occurred to me as being all that extreme.

NRAMA: Well, but that said, it seems as if you're going to have to go that extra mile to answer the majority of the questions...is that an accurate way to look at it?

MG: It would be if my intention was to answer those questions. But it really isn't. My only intention was to explain how Wolverine could regenerate from a brain-damaging injury yet still retain his memories and personality.

NRAMA: Base level for Wolverine - he mentioned that, after 500 degrees, you really don't feel the pain anymore, but in terms of reconstruction - how much does it hurt?

MG: Physically... or spiritually?

NRAMA: Er…

MG: That's a rhetorical question, by the way, 'cause I ain't saying.

NRAMA: So - basically, Wolverine can endure this, but isn't about to start doing it for fun on the weekends...get drunk and do a little self-immolation for ya-yas?

MG: I doubt it. In fact, in addition to explaining how Wolverine can retain his personality and memories, I also had a secondary goal. As I mentioned earlier, I didn't think I was doing anything all that different from what other writers have done - the suggestion that I did really came as a big surprise to me. I've read some postings on the Internet observing that Wolverine's healing factor has grown more and more powerful over the past, say, 20 years. I'd have to agree with that assessment. As a writer, you want to put your protagonist in a kind of physical jeopardy, but that has grown harder and harder to do with Wolverine, who appears to be able to heal from anything. So my ulterior motive was to increase the stakes for Wolverine; so that future writers can put him in physical jeopardy and still maintain a degree of suspense. And I wanted to do that without just crippling his healing factor. The solution I hit upon is based on the idea that just because Wolverine can heal from almost any injury, there is a massive cost to doing so.

NRAMA: Fair enough. Along with the exploration of his healing factor and the cost, the solicitation for this issue said that it lays the foundation of the next mystery for Logan - that will continue in the upcoming Marvel Comics Presents. First off - how did you land that gig of writing Wolvie in the new series?

MG: As with most gigs: Marvel asked. As I mentioned, issue #48 tees up another story for Wolverine. At the time, we weren't sure when and where and how that story would get told, but then a few months later, Marvel decided to go ahead with MCP and I was talking with MCP editor Andy Schmidt about doing a serialized story for them and someone -- I forget who -- said, "Well, y'know, there's that Wolverine story you still kinda owe us..." And it came out of that.

NRAMA: And you’re doing the story with Howard Chaykin, no less - he had mentioned earlier to us that he was having a great time on Blade with you, and wanted to do more...guess he wasn't fibbing, huh?

MG: I certainly hope not. Otherwise, he'd have to give me back all the money I've been paying him to say those things.

NRAMA: Format-wise, what are we looking at for you and Howard's Wolverine story? Is it 22 pages in each issue? Less?

MG: Well, that's an interesting question because the format has changed on us somewhat. Consider this your exclusive, because Howard and I will not be doing our Wolverine story within the pages of MCP. Rather, we're going to do the story in the pages of Wolverine-proper, after Jeph Loeb and Simone Bianchi finish up their run. So I'll be returning to the pages of Wolverine after all!

NRAMA: Very cool. But back to the story - tease it man, tease it - what does this upcoming mystery involve - Wolverine's past? Future? Something he though he knew, but doesn't really?

MG: It's very hard to tease that story because it's set up in issue #48 which I'm trying to tease at the moment. In other words, I can't think of a way to tease something off a tease except to say that the story is set up in issue #48... is that a tease?

NRAMA: Er…yeah? Finally - why Wolverine? What's the attraction of the character for you?

MG: I'm a short Canadian. With claws. No seriously, I just find the character very cool. I like his code of honor. I like his sense of humor, his way of looking at the world. He's had a very interesting life and he's one of those rare characters where you actually feel the weight of all those experiences when you're writing him. He's the Marvel Universe's Batman, in my opinion. He's a bit dark, a bit mysterious, a bit tortured and, as you may have heard, he's the best there is at what he does. Plus, like Batman, he really could give a crap about what other people think. I wish I was a little more like that.


Dear God. That sounds absolutely awful. This writer does not get Wolverine at all.
 
Not Jake said:
This is a bad post. You see, your argument about hitting adamantium--it just doesn't hold water. Nobody else hurts their hand when they punch him, why should DD? At least, I never see anyone remark how their hand hurts after they hit him. And again, DD can hit muscle with precision, he wouldn't even have to hit Wolverine's precious dog-face.:o DD is way over his amateur hour Kingpin performance, as he just mercilessly beat the guy half to death a little while ago when he declared himself the new Kingpin. Also I'm not sure that Wolverine's stronger than Captain America.:huh: But that heightened senses thing, man, that really screws over DD. If only DD had some sort of heightened senses, he could compete with Wolverine. But, seeing as he doesn't, I guess you win the argument.
well last time i checked dd couldnt punch thru a brick wall and being adamantium is a lot harder than a brick wall he should feel it if he(only) punches wolverine in the face.but if he kicks him then i could buy him not feeling the pain. and u are wrong when u say no one else hurts there hand when they hit him. anyone without super strength hurts there hand, and also have a hard time lifting him up
 
Horrorfan said:
I think he's right actually.

It's become cool to hate on wolverine, as it always becomes cool to hate popular things once they reach a certain level.


I'm not saying its great that he healed from a skeleton, it does sound lame, but its not as if stupider things haven't happened, and I do think people are over reacting.

I would bet money on people being ok with it if he was someone else.

The incident of Wolvie healing from skeleton was bad enough. It's not just that, but this interview clearly shows the writer does not know how to write Wolverine. He seems to want to involve the paranormal to explain where Wolvie's soul goes when he gets brain damaged. That's just nuts. Every precedent of extreme regeneration this current writer claims is his basis has some sort of explanation or limit. The current writer has taken away all limit, and has pretty much said all Wolverine needs is one cell to heal.

I think it's a pretty big thing to complain about. The editors obviously don't care. So it's up to fans to send them letters and emails.
 
kainedamo said:
The incident of Wolvie healing from skeleton was bad enough. It's not just that, but this interview clearly shows the writer does not know how to write Wolverine. He seems to want to involve the paranormal to explain where Wolvie's soul goes when he gets brain damaged. That's just nuts. Every precedent of extreme regeneration this current writer claims is his basis has some sort of explanation or limit. The current writer has taken away all limit, and has pretty much said all Wolverine needs is one cell to heal.

I think it's a pretty big thing to complain about. The editors obviously don't care. So it's up to fans to send them letters and emails.
well not really hes not doing anything that past writers havent done when wolverine almost died from magneto rippin the adamantium from him his soul almost went to heaven,and when he did die ( when sabertooth,omega red, and ladydeath strike teamed up on him and he did have his healin powers) he went to heaven and saw colossus, and rose who he thought was jean,and rose said good bye james.
 
BrolyKnight said:
well not really hes not doing anything that past writers havent done when wolverine almost died from magneto rippin the adamantium from him his soul almost went to heaven,and when he did die ( when sabertooth,omega red, and ladydeath strike teamed up on him and he did have his healin powers) he went to heaven and saw colossus, and rose who he thought was jean,and rose said good bye james.


And how long was he on a hospital bed recovering from that?:whatever:
 
BrolyKnight said:
well last time i checked dd couldnt punch thru a brick wall and being adamantium is a lot harder than a brick wall he should feel it if he(only) punches wolverine in the face.but if he kicks him then i could buy him not feeling the pain. and u are wrong when u say no one else hurts there hand when they hit him. anyone without super strength hurts there hand, and also have a hard time lifting him up
Ugh, Wolverine can punch through brick walls now?:whatever: Well I'll have to say that DD probably can too as it's a matter of punching through the wall not at it. Martial arts principals, boxing training, etc...he can throw a punch. Back in Born Again he punched through a door...but this may be a case of adamantium and healing factor just letting him bulldoze through the wall, not really a strength thing.
 
Darthphere said:
And how long was he on a hospital bed recovering from that?:whatever:
he was in bed until they entered earths orbit and jean almost flew out of the x-jet when the door flew open and wolverine jumped out of the bed to save her.
 
Hey, when did Wolverine go from having an adamantium-laced skeleton to having a skeleton completely coated in the stuff? Because that is how his skeleton is drawn now, and how he apparently achieves many of his feats. Seriously though I remember reading a handbook as a kid that said his skeleton was only laced with adamantium. Laced isn't coated or made out of. It's laced. Like frosting! Making him, you know, not weigh 300 lbs (since BrolyKnight says people have trouble lifting him) and also making him not so much with the hurting people's fists.
 
Not Jake said:
This is a bad post. You see, your argument about hitting adamantium--it just doesn't hold water. Nobody else hurts their hand when they punch him, why should DD? At least, I never see anyone remark how their hand hurts after they hit him. And again, DD can hit muscle with precision, he wouldn't even have to hit Wolverine's precious dog-face.:o DD is way over his amateur hour Kingpin performance, as he just mercilessly beat the guy half to death a little while ago when he declared himself the new Kingpin. Also I'm not sure that Wolverine's stronger than Captain America.:huh: But that heightened senses thing, man, that really screws over DD. If only DD had some sort of heightened senses, he could compete with Wolverine. But, seeing as he doesn't, I guess you win the argument.

Actually it does hold water, read I believe it's Wolverine vs. Sabertooth's first fight. I have the comic myself and reading it now. Sabertooth hits Wolverine in the face and breaks his hand, Sabertooth has mild superstrength at that. Then Wolverine makes a comment that Sabertooth never was too bright, and Sabertooth holds his hand for a bit. So if Sabertooth can break his hand hitting Wolverine, not sure why DD with normal durability couldn't. Think hitting steel with all your force and couple that with a mass larger than yours keeping it in place. He'll push Wolverine back, but has no enhanced durability to speak of.

As for Wolverine stronger than Cap America, I've seen him listed as meta human several times. Meaning just slightly stronger than the strongest human, slightly faster and all that, but not by much. Cap. America is listed as 800 pound strength, and Wolverine as 900 by multiple sources I've read, if someone has a manual or link handy go ahead lol.
 
Not Jake said:
Ugh, Wolverine can punch through brick walls now?:whatever: Well I'll have to say that DD probably can too as it's a matter of punching through the wall not at it. Martial arts principals, boxing training, etc...he can throw a punch. Back in Born Again he punched through a door...but this may be a case of adamantium and healing factor just letting him bulldoze through the wall, not really a strength thing.
well wolverine is stronger than DD but i see where ur gettin at with the martial art thing but dd shouldnt, and cant puncg thru a brick wall,yea and wolverine knowin he could heal from anythin and he has unbreakable bones gives him a edge mentally.
 
Not Jake said:
Hey, when did Wolverine go from having an adamantium-laced skeleton to having a skeleton completely coated in the stuff? Because that is how his skeleton is drawn now, and how he apparently achieves many of his feats. Seriously though I remember reading a handbook as a kid that said his skeleton was only laced with adamantium. Laced isn't coated or made out of. It's laced. Like frosting! Making him, you know, not weigh 300 lbs (since BrolyKnight says people have trouble lifting him) and also making him not so much with the hurting people's fists.
i think u misunderstood what they meant by laced. yes his entire skeleton in covered in it.
 
Darthphere said:
And how long was he on a hospital bed recovering from that?:whatever:


DP is right. When Sabretooth and the rest teamed up on Wolvie, it took Wolvie awhile to heal. And that was just a recent issue, too!
 
kainedamo said:
DP is right. When Sabretooth and the rest teamed up on Wolvie, it took Wolvie awhile to heal. And that was just a recent issue, too!
dp was talkin about the magneto rippin his metal out, and when they teamed up on him he didnt have any of his powers, the powers came back after he died so we really cant say how long it woulda took to heal
 
FadingCB said:
Actually it does hold water, read I believe it's Wolverine vs. Sabertooth's first fight. I have the comic myself and reading it now. Sabertooth hits Wolverine in the face and breaks his hand, Sabertooth has mild superstrength at that. Then Wolverine makes a comment that Sabertooth never was too bright, and Sabertooth holds his hand for a bit. So if Sabertooth can break his hand hitting Wolverine, not sure why DD with normal durability couldn't. Think hitting steel with all your force and couple that with a mass larger than yours keeping it in place. He'll push Wolverine back, but has no enhanced durability to speak of.

As for Wolverine stronger than Cap America, I've seen him listed as meta human several times. Meaning just slightly stronger than the strongest human, slightly faster and all that, but not by much. Cap. America is listed as 800 pound strength, and Wolverine as 900 by multiple sources I've read, if someone has a manual or link handy go ahead lol.

K got my comics mixed up, own both that I'm linking but mixed up the titles heh. This is what comic I thought it was in, which is in the Morlock tunnels and called "Wolverine vs. Sabertooth round 1" (BTW as I keep saying, no scanner atm so sry for using a webcam) -
Photo038.jpg


This is the actual comic it was in -

Photo039.jpg


Here's Sabertooth punching Wolverine -

Photo041.jpg


and here's him saying it broke his hand -

Photo042.jpg


Which this is around the same time period he hit Rogue who has Ms. Marvel's durability, then slammed her into the ground KO'ing her. So atleast at the time hitting Wolverine's skull meant breaking Sabertooth's hand, but hitting Rogue didn't phase him. Which is why Sabertooth slashed at Wolverine more in older comics. Now I don't know if it counts or not honestly as Wolverine gets hit a lot, just saying that's how it was origionally supposed to go.
 
Magneto ripping out his skeleton nearly killed him. The explosion Nitro caused did significantly more damage, and Wolverine was the picture of health just a few panels later.

It's inconsistent, despite what the writer claims.
 
BrolyKnight said:
i think u misunderstood what they meant by laced. yes his entire skeleton in covered in it.
I think that Marvel just got sick of his skeleton only being laced, so they changed it. That's what I think.

Like I said, I haven't seen anyone hurt their hand punching Wolverine, if it's happened, OK. Though Sabertooth hurting his hand on Wolvie is pretty dumb. But still--DD knows this stuff and would hit muscle/organs. Crushing the windpipe:up:

Again, Wolverine is stronger than DD, I said he was slightly stronger, but DD could still take his ass out:up:
 
kainedamo said:
Magneto ripping out his skeleton nearly killed him. The explosion Nitro caused did significantly more damage, and Wolverine was the picture of health just a few panels later.

It's inconsistent, despite what the writer claims.
a shock yes but inconsistant no he just pushed the envelope a lil wolverine always healed within panels given he was left alone.
 
Not Jake said:
I think that Marvel just got sick of his skeleton only being laced, so they changed it. That's what I think.

Like I said, I haven't seen anyone hurt their hand punching Wolverine, if it's happened, OK. Though Sabertooth hurting his hand on Wolvie is pretty dumb. But still--DD knows this stuff and would hit muscle/organs. Crushing the windpipe:up:

Again, Wolverine is stronger than DD, I said he was slightly stronger, but DD could still take his ass out:up:
lol if u think so.:whatever: theres a reason wolverine is considers a killin machine
 
since when did the ability to cut loose and kill automaticly mean Logan is gonna win the fight?????
There have been several instances in the X-books where someone punched Logan and hurt their hand.
The healing from a single cell is the biggest instance of miswriting ever known to man. Every other time Logan had to heal from major injuries like that he was laid up. Yes he got up and saved Jean right after having the adamantium ripped out but i do recall him being laid up afterwards.
 
On the strength thing, in an issue of Hulk, when he brings an unconscious Hulk into the mansion, he's pretty much dragging him on his shoulders through the place, and hulk is around 900-1000 pounds. I'd say he's a lot stronger than DD.
 
roach said:
since when did the ability to cut loose and kill automaticly mean Logan is gonna win the fight?????
There have been several instances in the X-books where someone punched Logan and hurt their hand.
The healing from a single cell is the biggest instance of miswriting ever known to man. Every other time Logan had to heal from major injuries like that he was laid up. Yes he got up and saved Jean right after having the adamantium ripped out but i do recall him being laid up afterwards.
wait a min i never said i agreed with the whole single cell regeneration thing, i said he pushed the envelope a lil...ok maybe a whole lot, and lets be serious DD cant beat wolverine in a fight dd is outclassed in every factor except senses and the ability to cut loose and kill someone gives u a edge if it is known the other person isnt willing to do the same. and for the whole savin jean and being laid up afterward naw i admit he was still hurt but not as critical as he was before.
 

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