And we also see that only reason Loomis makes any 'connection' with Michael for the sake of his damn book deal so he ****e out Michael and anyone else he can to make a buck, then show up at the last minute to try to "reason" with Michael for the sake of some half-assed, underdeveloped excuse for an "arc."
You know as well as I do that that is not how it happens. You are exaggerating and distorting for your points or you did not get Zombie's very unsubtle development. When we are introduced to Michael he honestly really does want to help him and you taste the desperation he has of losing this child. He does call Michael sincerely his best friend and spends most of the second half of RZH trying to find him (he has one book scene, unlike H2) and at the end, either ending, features him begging Michael to stop like a friend would try to stop his alcoholic buddy. This was not subtle and far more intriguing than "I'm looking for my sister." Even if he as shallow as you say, he is still a more fully realized personality than the cardboard cutouts of FT13. You had the ****ty teen, the jerk alpha male, the mysterious rebel outsider, the good girl (Jenna? I forgot before the movie ended), the nerdy minority teen and even the hip-funny black guy.
Reeeeeealllly.
What I described about the Whitney, Clay, and Jenna relationships is not interchangeable, it's much more likeable and gives me much more reason to care whether these people live or die than what I know about the characters in most slasher films, including RZH and H2.
What you described isn't, but how they were actually written, directed and performed was. They were clichés so the audience could root for their deaths. Everyone of them, even "poor Jenna" was treated with cheers and applause when I saw it in theatre. Archetypes up for the slaughter. I don't care if they are watered down by a Hollywood studio to be more likable, they were thinner than cartoon characters. They literally were every single freaking cliché from the entire franchise.
And regarding the predictability of F13...I feel exactly the same way about Rob's Halloween films...he turns Michael into the typical "this is what happened when he was a kid and this is why he kills people" killer, and it was blatantly obvious where the film would go, it was also blatantly obvious that H2 would end with Laurie flipping out and becoming just like Michael, it was obvious that Annie would die and Brackett would go after Michael for revenge...nothing in Rob's films was as surprising as Jenna's death in F13.
I never said H2 was a good movie. But there is a certain inevitability and almost destiny at work in Zombie's films. As Loomis says in RZH what happened to Michael was the "perfect storm" of exterior and interior problems that manifested himself into something beyond a psychopath and his Laurie is doomed to be haunted and destroyed by his legacy. There is almost a tragedy at work there. Same with how once the evil and violence touched Annie and her father, there was no way out for them ever. The violence is inevitable and inescapably corrupting.
I predicted every
single death and every
single scene in FT13 remake. The biggest surprise was that they lingered on ski girl so as to pull up one more gratuitous boob shot after she died. There was no rhyme, reason or meaning to it. Just senseless violence that is not meant to terrify but to bait the audience. Get those hoots, holler, laugh and revel in the blood bath. AFter all, that's what is meant to be. And I don't think anyone was surprised Michael was developed as a psychological study from birth as the first hour takes place when Michael was a child. That's like complaining it is obvious that Dickens is using what affects David Copperfield as a youth as an explanation of his adulthood. Way too predictable there as well.
Also, Jenna dying got a silent, respectful indifference from the audience. Nobody cared. Nobody talks about that being a highlight of the movie. She was a cliché that got dispatched. Annie's death may have been predictable, but she sure gets a lot more threads and attention from fans who lament the loss of a character. Annie's death was truly sad. Jenna managed to get a shrug from me.
Because I care about characters that are very morally driven, I care about characters that are trying to make ammends for the mistakes of their past, I care about characters that are stuck in horrible relationships and now have the chance at a much healthier relationship that they deserve if they survive...
I don't care if a character is moral or not. At least not in the sense of creativity. A character's morality does not make them interesting nor does it make them sympathetic or not (necessarily speaking). And in any case Laurie was a moral and likable girl who should want to root for and she actually has a fully developed personality and background. And if you really care about making amends, maybe you should like Zombie's Loomis as that is all he did for the second half of the first movie--and though badly written, it is also what he did at the end of H2. I think Laurie and Annie deserved a chance to live, but the horror that touched them in the first film never would give them that opportunity again and there is a sense of doom and meloncholy to both of them in the sequel.
and the films have always given the audience plenty of reason to care about Jason, one can argue that the films were shallow and redundant, but Jason has plenty of substance; and as for "cheesy kills," I think him setting a woman on fire to bait her boyfriend into a bear trap and making him watch her die, then leaving him there to bait in her friend before bearing a blade in his face is more brutal and unnerving than anything in Rob's Halloween films.
More creative. Sure. But you're cheering their deaths. The difference is empathy. I felt empathy for the nurse who was brutally pinned down and stabbed like a wild animal or the "good daughter," who was dragged out of a truck and butchered by a psychopath that she had tried to help. Sure the stabbing isn't original, but it is shot in a ruthless manner that is meant to invoke disgust and horror from the audience. Not "**** yeahs!" It isn't scary. It is just stupid.
F13 had the audience bursting out cheering and gave me a huge "Jason is back!" adrenaline rush after the opening scene (which was more intense than both of Rob's Trashoween films combined, btw)
And you should never be cheering for the killer. You just proved my point. You're not rooting for the characters or hoping to survive, you're embracing and egging on the slaughter for gratification. The kills are meant to get cheers and not gasps. You proved my point these characters are nothing more than machete fodder. If you are rooting for the villain and laughing at the kills, then your horror movie has failed on its most basic level.
Rob is capble of being a competent, and sometimes even great director...the problem is he's a HORRIBLE writer, and the scripts are what ruined his Halloween films, if somebody else had written them they could've been good.
Agreed.
F1309 is a better directed film than Rob's Trashoweens,
False. You may enjoy FT13 more, but while slick in music video styles it lacks any real cinematic quality to differenciate it from a commercial. Zombie, whether you hate his crude style or not, certainly is an auteur and leaves a visual stamp on his films. RZH and H2 are no masterpieces, but they are directed by a man with some skills that make him stand out.
and it's atleast as well acted, and Rob's ridiculous
Well it didn't prove it. I saw no performance on par with Brad Dourif, Danielle Harris, Malcom McDowell (a hammy performance, but done in a clever way) and even Taylor Scout Compton. Maybe FT13's cast could have matched them, but their material never gave them the chance.
I don't think much of the Oscar bait trash or sappy dramas that alot of film buffs can't stop lauding have much, if any, cinematic worth, but then again...I'm not the target audience for that type of garbage, because I don't value it any more than you do the horror genre.
Well that was vague and difficult to discern what these "sappy dramas" you are referring to. You mean like Christopher Nolan's Memento? Last year's fun and high-quality Slumdog Millionaire? Tarantino's Inglourious Basterds? I don't know what you're talking about. But if you don't see Basterds in theatres this month, you're cheating yourself.
Oh, and TCM 2 which I saw mentioned previously is probably a better film than F1309 and definitely a much better film than either of Zombie's attempts at Halloween.
Never saw it. But I liked the original and thought the remake was okay.
