Comics Should the mantle of Spidey be passed on?

[Gregatron]

There was already a thread on this a while back.


And the answer is still "no".

 

[rscal]

There was already a thread on this a while back.


And the answer is still "no".

but they deffinately need to pass the mantle of editor in chief of marvel to someone else.

 

[Gregatron]

but they deffinately need to pass the mantle of editor in chief of marvel to someone else.

That's a given.

 

[RAMORE]

I completely agree with Dragon here. I don't read Spider-Man comics simply because I like cool stories with characters climbing walls. I want to follow the exploits of boy whose Uncle could have lived, but didn't. Who takes on master planners and rich tyrants while worrying about being late for class or how he'll pay his [or his aunt's] bills. There's room in the world for Spider-Girls and Batman Beyonds, etc., but there will always be mainstream books about Bruce Wayne and Peter Parker being Batman and Spider-Man.

The only problem Spider-Man faces that Superman and Batman don't.. is that the latter were created as adult men with their settings and place in life set. Spider-Man was created as a teen and Lee dared to actually let him progress. Other writers also dared to allow him to experience death and great tragedy outside of his origin story. This created different "phases" in Spider-Man's life in which he and the tone of his books shifted, sometimes drastically.

Now, years later, editors, writers and fans look back at great eras in his history and want to get back to what Spidey is really about. The problem is, there are 3 or 4 different eras to choose from. It's easiest to fall back on the Lee-Ditko/Lee-Romita era, but that is the furthest from the reality that exists in the book today, and would undo stories that impacted the entire medium.

The best thing that can be done, in my opinion, is to take the elements of the character that are timeless, and are the first to be pushed into any new version of the character [power and responsibility, determination against incredible odds, humor in the face of danger], and build engaging stories around those themes -- starring Peter Parker and his current problems in life.

Is Peter too old or too married to be driven by Ben Parker's loss? To refuse to knuckle under to forces greater than himself? [Whether in number or influence]. To be concerned about his personal life as he dances with mortal danger hundreds of stories over Manhattan? I once learned that happiness is appreciating what you have, and making the best of it. Whereas unhappiness is overly appreciating what you don't have. Creators are so busy obsessing over what Spider-Man is not, and with saving him from what he is -- that they are creating problems much worse than Peter Parker being married or older.

A final note, as Gregatron points out the aging does have to stop now. Peter is a man at this point, like his fictional peers Superman and Batman. All the elements are in place and therefore there is no need to continue the progession Stan Lee started. He wanted Peter to develop and he has.
Now we just need to see him deal with life's challenges and choices.

Damn this is well written and thought out. I can't get over the fact that people think spidey is broken He's not all you need is to write good stories for gods sake. I hear editors say we got rid of baby may cause peter can't be a father too....uh why not?

I do agree however that one day someone else should take the mantle. It will be really really hard but if they do it right over 20 years like the flash barry allen to wally west it will work. But you can't just have a i need to retire but now i want back in opps a student gets my old powers scenario. Sounds like welcome back cotter comic?!?! You need to over many years develop someone that new and old fans can begin to like and love the way they do peter that's all.

But first spidey's not broken just the writers. IMHO.

 

[RAMORE]

If Marvel never declared Ben th' REAL Peter Parker, he would've had a much longer life, guaranteed.

so true such a good character they missed his potential entirely.

 

[RAMORE]

Don't get me wrong. I'm with you. I love Peter Parker just a much as Spidey. I personally believe Batman = Bruce Wayne, Superman = Clark Kent and Spidey should = Peter Parker.

The problem is we do have two Peter Parkers. Ultimate Spidey / Peter and 616 Spidey Peter. As far as I'm concerned Ultmate Spidey isn't the problem and Marvel isn't having problems with his fanbase! It's 616 Spidey that's in trouble and he's headed for quite a big fall if someone doesn't catch him!

I was trying to offer a non reality altering solution to the problem. Any other suggestions I've read lead to even bigger problems in the long run.

All I see in my minds eye are people acting like my little 4 yr old sitting there with his arms crossed throwing a fit telling me "No, it's got to be this way or nothing" Now how can business deal with that type of mentality?

I love the old stories. I love Stan and Steve's work. I respect the character and his history. I miss the old Spidey like the rest of you. Lately I really miss seeing him being single. I miss the mech. webshooters. I REALLY miss the original origin. I miss seeing his old supporting cast and the older villians, except Goblin!

If there was a way to get this back with Peter as Spidey and not have Mj die or him divorce her I would certainly LOVE to hear it. I would also LOVE to hear a way to fix the "Other" nonsense and completely erase him "dying" without a simple retcon!

On the current path the character is now I can see them "outing" him during Civil War. I can see MJ getting killed because of this. I can see HOM Gwen somehow showing up in this reality as a "gift" to Spidey from the Scarlet Witch!

I don't want to see any of that though, do you? Do any of you really want them using Time Travel to erase everything wrong? You know once they do that people are going to complain and new problems would rear their ugly head.

If someone can come up with a coherant plot that gets "Old Spidey" back and doesn't damage any of the good things that have happend to him then I'm all for it.

Bye the way they did the whole time travel thing where younger version comes to replace older evil version with iron man a few years back adn it didn't work at all.

 

[Gregatron]

There is no Spider-Man without Peter Parker.

It shouldn't even be a question.



The lunacy that has overrun the industry and the fanbase never ceases to astound and exasperate me.

 

[RAMORE]

I'm not looking for a fight over "If Peter should or shouldn't be Spider-Man?" I'm looking for a way out of this mess to restore the book to what he started out at.

My solution was only one path to take if all others failed. Yeah, in a way it is the same basic premise behind Batman Beyond but your not going to get the same type of stories because these characters are like night and day.

I really thought they (Marvel) had learned from the mistakes made with the Clone Saga and there for a while I thought we had turned a point with the character where I thought they'd get back to what made him great. I saw JMS as sign that Marvel was trying to do the right thing, but..... It couldn't be further from the truth. For some reason they had to go back to one shocking twist after another which leads us to this. Now there are "hints" that even further changes are in store for him during this Civil War crossover.

And on top of that Joe Q comes out and says he can't stand the marriage?!?!

So where does this end?

If we as fans don't offer some kind of a solution to this mess that we'd accept then how are they to get a handle on what we are thinking? If all they see are people complaining their going to just go do what they "think" we want.

Here's another "idea" I had that wouldn't involve anything really that would warp continuity and might get things back to where the majority of us would be happy.

Peter is outed during the Civil War by another hero who knows who he is. Mj and May become targets right away for every villain he's ever faced. In an attack Mj is seriously injured or posioned (take your pick) while trying to save May. Mj is either put into suspended animation (like Betty Ross in the Hulk book) OR ends up in a deep coma. Peter and Mj never split up. Peter however is now "single" after an acceptable period of grieving. Mj is not dead and she does go "out" a hero.

Peter learns after the Civil War that the changes he's gone through are a curse. Some new villain behind Morlun and all of the "totem" stuff appears. The situation is finally resolved with the help of Dr. Strange. Peter appears to loose his powers. Through a series of events that unfolds Peter uses this to prove that he was never Spider-Man and that he was set-up to try and protect May and his friends. Another hero helps Peter out by appearing in public as Spider-Man. During or shortly after this Peter's original powers come back because of the curse being "lifted". The original origin of his powers turns out to be true after all. Peter even looses the "organic shooters" and goes back to the old mech. shooters. Because of being outed as Spidey during the Civil War Peter looses his job as a teacher. Ironically after all is said and done Jonah, feeling guilty for how he treated Peter during the Civil War, gives Peter a job at the Bugle as senior photographer.

I think it's cheap to just have her in suspended animation same way i thought it ws cheap to just have her leave peter for a while with no resolution crap. Either kill her or divorce her and be done with it. If that's how you want it. I personally like the happily ever after gig.

 

[RAMORE]

Spider-Man isn't Wolverine-Lite or for that matter Iron Man Jr!

Now this is sig worthy

 

[Gregatron]

Preeeeesenting---The Amazing Iron Wolverine-Man!

 

[RAMORE]

There is no Spider-Man without Peter Parker.

It shouldn't even be a question.



The lunacy that has overrun the industry and the fanbase never ceases to astound and exasperate me.

i don't understand this line of thinking at all i fully expect Tim the current robin to assume the batman identity eventually. I don't think it will be in my life time but i still expect it.

 

[Gregatron]

i don't understand this line of thinking at all i fully expect Tim the current robin to assume the batman identity eventually. I don't think it will be in my life time but i still expect it.

Bruce Wayne is Batman.


This is timeless fiction, people.



Comic fans are so quick to cut down the material they allegedly love and actively prevent it from being timeless.

I don't see Conan Doyle fans insisting that Watson take over as the new Sherlock Holmes, or people demanding that Tonto become the new Lone Ranger.

One of the few comic strip characters who IS generational is the Phantom.

In the case of characters like Green Lantern and the Flash...well, those were (mainly) mistakes made by the creators (I'm referring to Hal and Barry being replaced, as opposed to Alan and Jay. When the latter pair where "replaced" in the late 50s, they really weren't.).

 

[RAMORE]

Bruce Wayne is Batman.


This is timeless fiction, people.



Comic fans are so quick to cut down the material they allegedly love and actively prevent it from being timeless.

I don't see Conan Doyle fans insisting that Watson take over as the new Sherlock Holmes, or people demanding that Tonto become the new Lone Ranger.

One of the few comic strip characters who IS generational is the Phantom.

In the case of characters like Green Lantern and the Flash...well, those were (mainly) mistakes made by the creators (I'm referring to Hal and Barry being replaced, as opposed to Alan and Jay. When the latter pair where "replaced" in the late 50s, they really weren't.).

Again disagree these are not "novel" characters of whom books are written about endlessly and can be read just one at a time not hooked to each other. These are comics. Sequential picture book with sequential linear stories where the characters grow and develop. Does this mean you still can't tell a really great bruce wayne batman story 1000 years from now? NO. You just let the reader know this is the tell of the first and possible greatest batman to ever live.

 

[The Shadow]

There was already a thread on this a while back.


And the answer is still "no".

Name one topic that hasn't been discussed 1000 times on here already?

 

[The Shadow]

i don't understand this line of thinking at all i fully expect Tim the current robin to assume the batman identity eventually. I don't think it will be in my life time but i still expect it.

I fully expect the same thing myself. Even after Crisis it seems likely that either him or Dick Grayson will someday take over. They've been hinting at this for years. Of course this is comic book time so techincally that could take another 30 years.

 

[The Shadow]

Bye the way they did the whole time travel thing where younger version comes to replace older evil version with iron man a few years back adn it didn't work at all.

I was throwing out ideas. I am well aware of the mess they made with young Iron Man and that whole mess with Kang. This is why I'm really against any Time Travel whatsoever. I was responding to the rumor of them using Time Travel.

 

[The Shadow]

I think the only thing you guys want to hear is. Put him back in the old suit, keep him married, ignore the new powers and don't bother explaining it, leave him teaching, let him just go on with his life like HoM, Sins Past and the Other never happened AND bring in a new writer!

That to me is total crap. If this is the way you want it then why even bother having any type of continuity or history at all. Each time you pickup the book and something bad happens you wouldn't have to worry because the next week everything would be back to the status quo!

I don't hate the marriage but I believe Joe Q. does have a point. I'm rather bored with the whole thing anyway. I don't even think marrying Superman off was a good idea.

I can't event begin to believe divorce would even make sense. For these two to just split up after all of the other stuff they've been through is just unimaginable. Peter and MJ have got to have one of strongest marriages in comic book history.

Killing her off is an option that could work but then we go back to the Peter Parker we all had to deal with after she "died" during Mackie's run. He was always moping around and depressed.

Putting her in a coma leaves her alive at least and gives Peter hope that she'll someday wake up. If you kill her off and then down the line another writer like JMS comes along and wants to use her we'll have another resurrection on our hands. And how many of those have we had to deal with lately??? Quite a bit.

I don't want to hear anymore about how all of these ideas have been used before because just about everything in the comic book industry has been done again and again. I'm looking for a way out of this mess regardless of it's an original idea or not.

 

[Gregatron]

Again disagree these are not "novel" characters of whom books are written about endlessly and can be read just one at a time not hooked to each other. These are comics. Sequential picture book with sequential linear stories where the characters grow and develop. Does this mean you still can't tell a really great bruce wayne batman story 1000 years from now? NO. You just let the reader know this is the tell of the first and possible greatest batman to ever live.

This proves how warped things are.

Comics used to be timeless, complete-in-one issue stories that anyone could read casually while waiting at an airport, or on a long car trip, or just for fun. The characters were established, and deviated very little from that basic conception.

Somewhere along the way, they mutated into what television is today:

Sequential linear storytelling where the characters grow and develop (and "develop" so much one needs a scorecard to keep all 10,000 versions of Spider-Man straight), and where a "newbie" who jumps into it during the middle of the "season" will have no clue as to what's going on.


Thus, comics have been taken over by the lunatic fringe which used to be the minority of the fanbase. A selfish, immature group which has turned a general market, all-ages product into a niche market product created for and enjoyed only by them. An obsessive, anal-retentive club that shuns new blood and whose members bicker amongst themselves. A club of people who have no lives, and who live vicariously through ever-more "realistic" characters, mocking and belittling said characters all the while.


I leaned in this direction, once. But then I had what alcoholics refer to as "a moment of clarity". I understand now. I understand.

And I will not stop fighting to defend the old guard, and to preserve something that was genuinely special and touched so many (myself included) so profoundly.

 

[LarryLegend]

Greg, you're getting awfully hostile my friend.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

All of this talk of "fixing" Spider-Man now makes me laugh because it's coming from the SAME people that f***ed him up to begin with.

Even though I would love to see that whole "Spider-God, Other , Totem" crap be thrown out I shudder at the thought of what they would "correct" it with.

Lets' face it. It's time for something like this. We've all been fighting this for years and look where the character is now.

What do you think?

I dont think the mantle should be passed on,i think..like with Uncanny X-Men some mega recon should happen.I dont belive that Other,Totem and nonsence either.But Spider-Man has been bogged down for over 10 years if you were to look at it from alot of points.

I hate what has happened to Spider-Man also,but there is always someone who will buy into this crap.People need to take a stand and say no to these changes,i have gone mostly to DC now,so my dollars are mostly going to good things.But Spider-Man is one of the main Marvel themes.

Why should this happen to him?Im one of those that i dont include these recent things with my idea of Spider-Man.All i can say is to cut the crap and say ntherwise Spider-Man will already be gone..to some..he already is..

 

[RAMORE]

True^. To be honest i haven't bought a spiderman comic since the clone days. for all it's faults that's the last time i was interested.

 

[Gregatron]

Greg, you're getting awfully hostile my friend.

Honest and focused, not hostile.

 

[James"007"Bond]

If Marvel never declared Ben th' REAL Peter Parker, he would've had a much longer life, guaranteed.

If Marvel hadn't done a lot of things, the spidey comics would be in a much better state overall.