Watchmen HBO Eyeing ‘Watchmen’ TV Series from Damon Lindelof

[parkerpete]

I hate that there are so many easily triggered man children that are actively hating on the series just because it's been dealing with racism.

And they’ll look up and scream ‘pander to me!’ And I’ll whisper, ‘no’.

 

[Kane52630]

Absolutely a phenomenal episode of television. It's definitely the episode they're gonna send for Emmy votes. It's one of those episodes that I wish didn't end.

It also makes me wanna go back and read the graphic novel again.

 

[NotNickFury]

Absolutely a phenomenal episode of television. It's definitely the episode they're gonna send for Emmy votes. It's one of those episodes that I wish didn't end.

It also makes me wanna go back and read the graphic novel again.

Same, which I think I'll definitely end up doing once the season is over.

And while I've never read Before Watchmen, I keep hearing that brought up on occasion on Twitter and I'm a bit curious about looking into that as well.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

"It’s noted in the original Nite Owl Hollis Mason’s memoir, Under the Hood, that Hooded Justice said complimentary things about Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party. The Hooded Justice in HBO’s Watchmen is depicted as being vehemently against racism, fascism, and Nazism. So how did Lindelof and his team justify this?
Finally, Lindelof said they justified this by looking at how Will’s costume doesn’t just cover his identity, but his race. “Part of Will Reeves’s camouflage in terms of hiding his true identity required making statements like that in the presence of the other Minutemen so as to throw off the scent of who he truly was,” Lindelof said."
That explains the Nazi thing haha. Source

I assumed the German propaganda he's handed while he was over there is where all that came from.

 

[Kane52630]

Just as I expected, Lindelof confirms Adrian is on Europa.

 

[Kane52630]

Polygon has a nice breakdown of all the easter eggs and info from last night's episode.

HBO’s Watchmen changed comic canon without changing anything

 

[Kane52630]

They've got you covered on that one:

I love the dichotomy between how home-made their suits were and how professional they looked like in the "American Hero Story" segments, going so far as to use the exact suits that Snyder had used for the film. Fits with the comic since Mason said he'd made his suit himself

Same here. It's not as professionally made like in the Snyder movie, which makes a lot of sense.

 

[stillanerd]

Okay, I think all of us called it that

Spoiler

Will Reeves was the real Hooded Justice

but that untwist didn't ruin the episode. Far from it. This was, without question, a masterclass of directing, in which it not only replicates the dreamlike quality of recalling memories, but how it also incorporates the larger themes about racism HBO's Watchmen has been exploring since the beginning.

Watchmen season 1, episode 6 review: This Extraordinary Being

 

[Doctor Jones]

Well that was just excellent. I know some people here theorized Will was Hooded Justice but they brilliantly managed to recontextualize the comic while advancing this story and at the same time not stomping on it. Hooded Justice is still mysterious because you know why he is.

 

[LoganGambit87]

i wonder if they took inspiration from DC:New Frontier for Hooded Justice

John Wilson from New Frontier is also a black man fighting against the KKK after racial violence,death and survived a hanging by rope by the KKK

 

[Kane52630]

It sure seems like Watchmen turned Donald Trump’s father into one of its racist villains

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I don't think her age would really fit if she's supposed to be from that time in Vietnam. Though I guess with everything else she's been able to do, I suppose anti-aging solutions wouldn't seem far-fetched at all.

The series keeps hinting at generational trauma. The Vietnam attack by Manhattan would probably be a near comparison to the Tulsa race riot. Something that would connect Will and Trieu in circumstances (even if she’s not the baby from the incident).

 

[James.B]

 

[PhasedPlasma101]

I'm torn on the new episode. On one hand, it is a synergy of world class writing, cinematography and acting. The way Lindelof weaves previous notions of Watchmen with his storytelling for this series was brilliant. It was more than affective as a mini story.

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of the retcon decision but by God was it great television.

 

[parkerpete]

Well, that was awful.

And so, so, so, so miscast. I generally like both actors but holy moly Stevenson’s interpretation of Rorschach is... not good. The stylized tone and intrusive score don’t do the clip any favors either.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

That is pretty decent. Rorshach feels more like the Question though.


Edit: apparently Daniel Craig was suppose to be Rorschach.

 

[samsnee]

I'm torn on the new episode. On one hand, it is a synergy of world class writing, cinematography and acting. The way Lindelof weaves previous notions of Watchmen with his storytelling for this series was brilliant. It was more than affective as a mini story.

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of the retcon decision but by God was it great television.

Is it really a retcon though? I thought they did a great job of giving us a fleshed our origin without contradicting the comic since we never got a definitive answer to who HJ was.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I was about to say the same thing, it's not really a retcon. The original book leaves it wide open.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

It's definitely a retcon. Unless you can prove that Moore always intended for this to be the case, and I think we all know he didn't.

Retcons, when done well, can truly add to the original source material. This one was undoubtedly done well, but there's something about it that just doesn't sit right with me. But I can't tell what it is. Maybe because it was widely expected? But no matter what, in context of the show, it was really smart and builds the characters' worlds a lot.

Part of me wishes Alan Moore would watch this and comment on it...I feel like this change is something he would actually enjoy.

 

[Detective Conan]

That is pretty decent. Rorshach feels more like the Question though.

I actually prefer the voice over the movie version since it sounds more closer to how I imagined him sounding. Rorschach in the book is described as speaking with a monotone. This version nails that aspect but the speech patterns should be abrupt and incomplete. He should only speak with full sentences when he’s younger(before he sheds his Walter Kovacs identity completely, and becomes the real “Rorschach.”)

It’s funny that you compare the way Rorschach’ sounds there to the Question when he’s basically supposed to be a more extreme version of him. He’s basically Moore’s nod to Ditko’s objectivist characters like Mr. A and The Question so I always imagined Rorschach sounding like the Justice League Unlimited cartoon’s version of The Question. I always preferred that over the Batman-esque growl the movie gives him.

Edit: apparently Daniel Craig was suppose to be Rorschach.

Here’s a fun fact: David Bowie lobbied to play Rorschach back when Terry Gilliam was doing the Watchmen movie.

 

[parkerpete]

A few theories after digesting Episode 6:

1. Judd was actually involved in Trieu and Reeves’ plan. He never asks who the old man is. He says ‘I’m trying to help you people!’ At first, this sounds like tone-deaf white patriarchy, because of the context of the previous hour. It’s a misdirect. He’s actually referring to ‘you people’ Trieu and Reeves. After all, why else would Reeves target Judd specifically? Why would he go hunting for dirt on Judd? (He mentions the Klan robes in Judd’s closet--this is not info he got from Angela)

2. Episode 8 will focus on Judd’s POV set in the recent past leading up to Episode 1.

3. The easy one: The Cyclops mass-mesmerism tech definitely features in the Kavalry’s plan, or Trieu’s, or both.

4. Trieu and Reeves are planning some kind of horrific ‘corrective' against white america. This is going to be a very difficult moral/plot issue to sensitively handle... I mean, how do you write a plot about nonwhites systematically harming whites without it becoming some kind of racist paranoid fever dream? But the show is clearly foreshadowing it with its relentless focus on inheritance, legacy, and genetic bloodlines. And Reeves mentions that Angela will never forgive him for what he’s about to do to ‘her family’. One can only assume he means her adopted white children.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I actually prefer the voice over the movie version since it sounds more closer to how I imagined him sounding. Rorschach in the book is described as speaking with a monotone. This version nails that aspect but the speech patterns should be abrupt and incomplete. He should only speak with full sentences when he’s younger(before he sheds his Walter Kovacs identity completely, and becomes the real “Rorschach.”)

It’s funny that you compare the way Rorschach’ sounds there to the Question when he’s basically supposed to be a more extreme version of him. He’s basically Moore’s nod to Ditko’s objectivist characters like Mr. A and The Question so I always imagined Rorschach sounding like the Justice League Unlimited cartoon’s version of The Question. I always preferred that over the Batman-esque growl the movie gives him.
Here’s a fun fact: David Bowie lobbied to play Rorschach back when Terry Gilliam was doing the Watchmen movie.

Rorshach by the time of Watchmen should sound like a guy who stands outside holding a sign in the weather and eating beans.

I know about the Charleston connection. That’s why he sounded more like Question. Like he still had some level of normalcy as a detective/ hero.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

It's definitely a retcon. Unless you can prove that Moore always intended for this to be the case, and I think we all know he didn't.

Retcons, when done well, can truly add to the original source material. This one was undoubtedly done well, but there's something about it that just doesn't sit right with me. But I can't tell what it is. Maybe because it was widely expected? But no matter what, in context of the show, it was really smart and builds the characters' worlds a lot.

Part of me wishes Alan Moore would watch this and comment on it...I feel like this change is something he would actually enjoy.

I actually think he would be on board with a lot of what this show does with the material, but it's a sore spot for him so we'll likely never know which makes me sad. The stuff they've done with Rorschach's iconography especially seems up his alley.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

A few theories after digesting Episode 6:

1. Judd was actually involved in Trieu and Reeves’ plan. He never asks who the old man is. He says ‘I’m trying to help you people!’ At first, this sounds like tone-deaf white patriarchy, because of the context of the previous hour. It’s a misdirect. He’s actually referring to ‘you people’ Trieu and Reeves. After all, why else would Reeves target Judd specifically? Why would he go hunting for dirt on Judd? (He mentions the Klan robes in Judd’s closet--this is not info he got from Angela)

4. Trieu and Reeves are planning some kind of horrific ‘corrective' against white america. This is going to be a very difficult moral/plot issue to sensitively handle... I mean, how do you write a plot about nonwhites systematically harming whites without it becoming some kind of racist paranoid fever dream? But the show is clearly foreshadowing it with its relentless focus on inheritance, legacy, and genetic bloodlines. And Reeves mentions that Angela will never forgive him for what he’s about to do to ‘her family’. One can only assume he means her adopted white children.

On the first part I’d disagree. I think Keene and Judd took the portals from Veidt and when Trieu took over Veidt industries she learned about Judd and Keene’s plan. Probably how she learned about Will, too since Veidt knew Metropolis and probably cared out his last will.

I think the plan involves everyone of all races and ages.

Keene could have had Angela killed but just wanted her out of the way until his plan finished so he obviously thinks she can stop him or is important to Reeve/Trieu

 

[Detective Conan]

Rorshach by the time of Watchmen should sound like a guy who stands outside holding a sign in the weather and eating beans.

So how should Rorschach sound like in your view?

I actually think he would be on board with a lot of what this show does with the material, but it's a sore spot for him so we'll likely never know which makes me sad. The stuff they've done with Rorschach's iconography especially seems up his alley.

Agreed. Moore always meant for Rorschach to be “a bad example” and answer the question on what Batman in the real world would be like which the answer he would be as Alan Moore puts it “a nutcase.” He was never intended to be a character you looked up to in a aspirational way, you’re meant to feel pity for a man who’s essentially a tragic cautionary tale on what it would take for a man to be that type of vigilante that is all too lionized in superhero comics as a “hero” in a real world context. Rorschach is a emotionally damaged and pained soul. He’s the type of character you should never wish you could be. He’s the guy that you should be saying to yourself, “woah, and I thought my life was bad.”

Plus, Rorschach was a paranoid, sexually repressed, misogynistic, homophobic, right-winger who hated liberals. So it’s not hard to see why Alt-Righters would gravitate towards him. They tend to have a lot in common with someone like that.