GRRM must be delusional if he thinks that they are going to break up anymore of the books so he can get done with the next one. Looks like the series will probably end before he finishes the books.
I just don't think GRRM will let that happen. I think he has the fire under him now. I mean I can't say for certain, but I think he will finish them if not barley in time. Maybe I'm wrong but he seems even quieter, and does not want to talk about it more so then the last ones, partly because he knows he regrets what he says, but at the same time I think he's trying to surprise us fans.
I think they will split book 6&7 into 3 seasons. I think that after season 5 most of AFFC and ADWD will be done. And maybe even by then some of TWOW. They did say they went to talk to GRRM recently to talk about where things are going. And they are writing season 5 right now. So I bet they may trickle into that. But I think the last few could be combined into 3 seasons.
Fair enough, if you do the same to me. I think you and I have conversed together for a long enough time to know I'm not some accursed monster trying to hurt you. I took that line emotionally in a different way, just as you took mine emotionally another way. So let's forget that. And move on from it and get back to the discussion at hand.
But my points still stand on the other things
Yes Dany is a inexperienced leader, but funny enough she's lead her warriors/armies and listened to her advisers better then Stannis did, she successfully has won 3 massive battles, and sacrificed her own dragons, and her self to try and keep the peace. Stannis has lost Blackwater almost losing all of his army to death and destruction, as did outside Winterfell. And also the many innocent that died in Kings Landing because Stannis's view of him being the rightful heir.
Just as Dany has caused many to be in pain and suffering. Both do it because of their vanity, and belief in their causes. Each may have misguidings but deep in both their hearts they do want peace.
You seem focused on Dany v. Stannis. That isn't the conversation you and I are having. You were having that with someone else. I am specifically talking about Dany as a character.
But on Stannis,
He has also won battles. His defeat at Blackwater was nothing to be ashamed of. He had pulled it off. He breached the stronghold even with Wildfire and chain. But no one could account for Tywin arriving with the Tyrells.
Also I am not sure where you are getting that his army was lost at Winterfell. Ramsay is lying, as the released chapter from TWoW has shown this.
Dany the conqueror is fine. Afterall she has her dragons and thus can trump most armies with them. The only problem I have with the actually conquering is that it comes off like a video game on God mode. She doesn't actually do much. She basically releases her dragons or others do all the dirty work in terms of leading and tactics.
My problem with Dany is two fold. First her hypocritical nature. When reconquering Westeros was Viserys idea, she wasn't cool with it. She thought to herself how all she wanted was a safe place to live, to live a quiet and happy life.
But once she gained power, once she had the upper hand then suddenly it is the best idea ever. She sees herself as entitled to the Throne, as if she divine. Complain about Stannis, but he hasn't exactly talked out of both sides of his mouth. Not like Dany.
The second problem I have is that she is doing this in a manner which I find completely selfish. She is young yes, but does she take this into account? That perhaps she should learn how to rule before going about conquering? No.
It is easy to say she is simply making mistakes, but the mistakes come her vanity and most importantly cost innocent people their lives. Not just soldiers, but innocents. She believes herself a special snowflake like the rest of her family. As if that means she is a natural and capable of doing these things without actually learning how to do them. For her, with her dragons, it is easy to eliminate the "bad guys".
Now Dany can feel bad about it. She can try and fix it, but my problem is that she did all this stuff in the first place. It is easier to ask forgiveness, then it is to attempt some forethought. She doesn't do the latter.
ADWD is her confronted with the reality of what she has caused, and what she has become.
GRRM must be delusional if he thinks that they are going to break up anymore of the books so he can get done with the next one. Looks like the series will probably end before he finishes the books.
I just don't think GRRM will let that happen. I think he has the fire under him now. I mean I can't say for certain, but I think he will finish them if not barley in time. Maybe I'm wrong but he seems even quieter, and does not want to talk about it more so then the last ones, partly because he knows he regrets what he says, but at the same time I think he's trying to surprise us fans.
If you have read his recent quotes, he is basically depending on the series going 10 seasons so he can somehow get the books done in time. That isn't going to happen. The show runners keep saying 7, maybe 8. But 8 is tops.
Read this. He is basically asking for more time that I really doubt will be given.
I think they will split book 6&7 into 3 seasons. I think that after season 5 most of AFFC and ADWD will be done. And maybe even by then some of TWOW. They did say they went to talk to GRRM recently to talk about where things are going. And they are writing season 5 right now. So I bet they may trickle into that. But I think the last few could be combined into 3 seasons.
HBO is a business, a successful business. They put business and profit first and what's best for their wallets will take precedence. They won't let this show go on forever regardless of Martin's desires. Seven to eight seasons is best. It's a respectable length for any show, and plenty of time to tell this story. The show doesn't need to cover the next four books. It just needs to tell a good story. They know GRRM's ending and plans. They can get to the end themselves.
Considering that D&D consider ASOS the best and the stuff they love the most is in that book, I expect them to start taking greater liberties with the material from here on out. Hold on to your breeches folks, there's gonna be a lot more pissed off purists before this show is done.
HBO is a business, a successful business. They put business and profit first and what's best for their wallets will take precedence. They won't let this show go on forever regardless of Martin's desires.
no way. season 5 will be mostly Dance, 6&7 mostly WoW, season 8 either extended or add a half '9th' season. too much money to not go for.
Come on, we know GRRM said WoW is as long as Storm... and you know good and damn well hes going to go nuts with Dream of Spring... i dont care what anyone says that'll be the 2nd longest to WoW
You seem focused on Dany v. Stannis. That isn't the conversation you and I are having. You were having that with someone else. I am specifically talking about Dany as a character.
The reason I bring it up because of the huge love over Stannis, and when I see Dany and Stannis both the same in their vain views that hurt people. Stannis has hurt just as many people as Dany. And both have done it for their own self views. Everyone else agreed from Robert, to Cat, to the council to Varys to Renly that Stannis would be a horrible ruler. He has not really ruled yet, save for a small island of Dragonstone and the few families that bowed to him over there.
My point is to show that both of them have these vanity, Dany does think she's special, ...mainly because...lol she is. She is the mother of Dragons, even the books say the Dragons are what are bringing magic back into this world. So I'd say the person that brings a race back from extinction while bringing magic back into the world....could say she's special. Stannis is a false prophet, not the real R'hollor even Aegon knew it and he's blind. But Stannis sees himself as some "just" man that is really anti social, and not a people person because he hates them. He hates how everyone looked down at him his whole life. But has this love for Justice that is just as skewed as anything else. He has a vain problem thinking he's truly just, when he is lying and doing as bad as things, so that he can have his army to take over what most don't want. He may have a right to it, but it seems many have the feeling he will be a bad leader. Save for some of his bros like Davos.
Even others tell Davos..."What the hell do you see in him. he's brought nothing but pain to you, yet you still blindly love him"
But on Stannis,
He has also won battles. His defeat at Blackwater was nothing to be ashamed of. He had pulled it off. He breached the stronghold even with Wildfire and chain. But no one could account for Tywin arriving with the Tyrells.
Also I am not sure where you are getting that his army was lost at Winterfell. Ramsay is lying, as the released chapter from TWoW has shown this.
He has won battles I'm not denying that, but at great cost as well, and Blackwater was still a massive defeat that left the whole country in shambles.
And many starving.
Dany the conqueror is fine. Afterall she has her dragons and thus can trump most armies with them. The only problem I have with the actually conquering is that it comes off like a video game on God mode. She doesn't actually do much. She basically releases her dragons or others do all the dirty work in terms of leading and tactics.
I don't think it's God mode because she and those she does care about are getting hurt. Just as I see it with the others, just because she has not had a physical scratch or anything does not mean it's chipping away at her psyche. Especially at the end of ADWD you can tell the arch is continuing and she's going to be a lot different.
My problem with Dany is two fold. First her hypocritical nature. When reconquering Westeros was Viserys idea, she wasn't cool with it. She thought to herself how all she wanted was a safe place to live, to live a quiet and happy life.
But once she gained power, once she had the upper hand then suddenly it is the best idea ever. She sees herself as entitled to the Throne, as if she divine. Complain about Stannis, but he hasn't exactly talked out of both sides of his mouth. Not like Dany.
Not really. Even while ruling she does want to go back to the simple life, she says it many times that she just wants to run away with Dario and live in the house with the red door. She does have power, that was thrust on her by the seven gods or who ever, she has the three most powerful things in the world in her hands now. Fate has slapped her, and she's trying to do what she can with it. The gods must of answered her wishes, because they have not given Stannis the dragons he wanted. I see it as her being thrust into this world by the gods and the magic that is the Dragons. And she does not want them to get into the evil hands of people like the slavers.
The second problem I have is that she is doing this in a manner which I find completely selfish. She is young yes, but does she take this into account? That perhaps she should learn how to rule before going about conquering? No.
Again she was thrust into it, she did not really decide to be a ruler, her having the dragons made her god like to many, and rightfully so. Fire does not hurt her and she has the most poweful beasts int he world that are her children. I'd even bow before that in awe.
She's doing what she can, and learning the school of hard knocks. But her just walking away would probably cause more problems if someone else got a hold of the Dragons, say someone like Joffery. She is trying to keep the more evil types out of that power.
It is easy to say she is simply making mistakes, but the mistakes come her vanity and most importantly cost innocent people their lives. Not just soldiers, but innocents. She believes herself a special snowflake like the rest of her family. As if that means she is a natural and capable of doing these things without actually learning how to do them. For her, with her dragons, it is easy to eliminate the "bad guys".
But again she is special. Having dragon babies that have thought to been dead for hundreds of years, and thought a myth, as well as resistance to fire, is something that only seems to be with her.
Now Dany can feel bad about it. She can try and fix it, but my problem is that she did all this stuff in the first place. It is easier to ask forgiveness, then it is to attempt some forethought. She doesn't do the latter.
ADWD is her confronted with the reality of what she has caused, and what she has become.
She does make choices, but again I don't see her with much of a choice. Either way she's going to be facing down the length of a sword. People will die one way or another. I see it as she has made foolish choices but just as much as Stannis, and she has more of a reason, and more of a nod from powers that are higher that they want her to try to rule. Either it be the seven gods or the new.
Six season contracts are customary, but they may have went for 7 seasons. D&D planned this as an 80 hour story so I suspect there may be contract issues before the end of the show. Especially with the younger cast who will likely be tiring of the job by then and wanting to venture out into new things and be known for other work.
Frankly, people need to be thankful we may be getting 7 seasons. To expect more than that is daydreaming imo. Especially on HBO. Ten seasons is ludicrous. D&D have made it absolutely clear. They will no longer be adapting it book by book but taking what's left of the story and adapting it over the next four seasons.
Accept it now, everyone, you will all feel a lot better when season 7 or 8 is announced as the last.
The book length is irrelevant, because they won't be out in time. They will have the broad strokes, and craft two and half season around that. Secondly, the money it would cost to produce two extra seasons with probably be counter productive, like Rome. They have everyone signed on for a certain length. This has been discussed before.
This is specifically why I don't think we will see a lot of the new characters from Feast. Or at least, they will have their parts cut quite a bit.
Six season contracts are customary, but they may have went for 7 seasons. D&D planned this as an 80 hour story so I suspect there may be contract issues before the end of the show. Especially with the younger cast who will likely be tiring of the job by then and wanting to venture out into new things and be known for other work.
Frankly, people need to be thankful we may be getting 7 seasons. To expect more than that is daydreaming imo. Especially on HBO. Ten seasons is ludicrous. D&D have made it absolutely clear. They will no longer be adapting it book by book but taking what's left of the story and adapting it over the next four seasons.
Accept it now, everyone, you will all feel a lot better when season 7 or 8 is announced as the last.
Six season contracts are customary, but they may have went for 7 seasons. D&D planned this as an 80 hour story so I suspect there may be contract issues before the end of the show. Especially with the younger cast who will likely be tiring of the job by then and wanting to venture out into new things and be known for other work.
Frankly, people need to be thankful we may be getting 7 seasons. To expect more than that is daydreaming imo. Especially on HBO. Ten seasons is ludicrous. D&D have made it absolutely clear. They will no longer be adapting it book by book but taking what's left of the story and adapting it over the next four seasons.
Accept it now, everyone, you will all feel a lot better when season 7 or 8 is announced as the last.
They'll easily go to 7. I'm betting 8 as well. Ya there may be some fatigue of it, but money talks. And many other shows, look at The Sopranos continued forward. I think it will never go any longer then 8 seasons, but it won't go less then 7. The show has such popularity, I'm sure they will get them to stay for what they need one way or another. Even if they surpass GRRM.
The best thing for the show would be to seal the deal and set an end date with D&D and put it in writing so they can plan everything rather than waiting til season 7 or 8 and deciding that is the last. Do what ABC did with Lost and plan for an end date. They don't even have to announce it publicly. They just need to have a planned end date. some fans won't be happy, but fans rarely know what's best for a product. Fans are too biased. They can only think in terms that makes them happy and what makes them happy is rarely realistic or practical monetarily speaking.
The best thing for the show would be to seal the deal and set an end date with D&D and put it in writing so they can plan everything rather than waiting til season 7 or 8 and deciding that is the last. Do what ABC did with Lost and plan for an end date. They don't even have to announce it publicly. They just need to have a planned end date. Most fans won't be happy whenever it ends, but fans rarely know what's best for a product. Fans are too biased. They can only think in terms that makes them happy and what makes them happy is rarely realistic or practical monetarily speaking.
They very well have made a deal. I think with the popularity and the money going behind it, and HBO knows this show is huge for them, they've probably already made some kind of deal with GRRM, since he is involved a lot in the show as well.
The reason I bring it up because of the huge love over Stannis, and when I see Dany and Stannis both the same in their vain views that hurt people. Stannis has hurt just as many people as Dany. And both have done it for their own self views. Everyone else agreed from Robert, to Cat, to the council to Varys to Renly that Stannis would be a horrible ruler. He has not really ruled yet, save for a small island of Dragonstone and the few families that bowed to him over there.
Stannis being a good ruler is irrelevant, just like Joffrey being a horrible ruler is irrelevant. Stannis doesn't want the thrown because he thinks he would be a good ruler. He wants the Throne because by the law of Westeros, it is what is "right". If Joffrey wasn't the child of incest, Stannis would have never had done this. This is what distinguishes him from Dany.
Stannis has some Ned to him. He does what he believes is right, whether anyone else agrees, no matter the consequences. He is not a hypocrite. There is honor in that, something some people admire.
My point is to show that both of them have these vanity, Dany does think she's special, ...mainly because...lol she is. She is the mother of Dragons, even the books say the Dragons are what are bringing magic back into this world. So I'd say the person that brings a race back from extinction while bringing magic back into the world....could say she's special. Stannis is a false prophet, not the real R'hollor even Aegon knew it and he's blind. But Stannis sees himself as some "just" man that is really anti social, and not a people person because he hates them. He hates how everyone looked down at him his whole life. But has this love for Justice that is just as skewed as anything else. He has a vain problem thinking he's truly just, when he is lying and doing as bad as things, so that he can have his army to take over what most don't want. He may have a right to it, but it seems many have the feeling he will be a bad leader. Save for some of his bros like Davos.
And that right there is problem with Dany. Whether she is special or not, her actions still matter. They still effect others. Just because she is special doesn't mean what she does is right.
He has won battles I'm not denying that, but at great cost as well, and Blackwater was still a massive defeat that left the whole country in shambles.
And many starving.
Blackwater was a massive defeat. The country is in shambles because Robert put the kingdome in debt and Cersei shagged her brother and raised a monster from that union.
Westeros' biggest problem is Joffrey, as has split the kingdom, while not actually taking the action to provide for his people. There was massive problems before the Battle of Blackwater.
I don't think it's God mode because she and those she does care about are getting hurt. Just as I see it with the others, just because she has not had a physical scratch or anything does not mean it's chipping away at her psyche. Especially at the end of ADWD you can tell the arch is continuing and she's going to be a lot different.
Not really. Even while ruling she does want to go back to the simple life, she says it many times that she just wants to run away with Dario and live in the house with the red door. She does have power, that was thrust on her by the seven gods or who ever, she has the three most powerful things in the world in her hands now. Fate has slapped her, and she's trying to do what she can with it. The gods must of answered her wishes, because they have not given Stannis the dragons he wanted. I see it as her being thrust into this world by the gods and the magic that is the Dragons. And she does not want them to get into the evil hands of people like the slavers.
The only Gods to have shown to sort of exist are the Red God and The Old Gods.
And you are avoiding the point. If she wanted that life, she could have had it. She could have had it before she made the decision to start conquering. Wanting to leave it all behind and go away after she ruined everything does not count. That is like a murder in prison having regret. That doesn't change what she did.
Dany got her dragons. What she decide to do with them was on her. The Gods thrust nothing upon her. She hatched them herself and then she decided to wage war with them by herself.
Why do you feel the need to act like these haven't all been her decision? Why couldn't she just have her little peaceful home?
Again she was thrust into it, she did not really decide to be a ruler, her having the dragons made her god like to many, and rightfully so. Fire does not hurt her and she has the most poweful beasts int he world that are her children. I'd even bow before that in awe.
She's doing what she can, and learning the school of hard knocks. But her just walking away would probably cause more problems if someone else got a hold of the Dragons, say someone like Joffery. She is trying to keep the more evil types out of that power.
But again she is special. Having dragon babies that have thought to been dead for hundreds of years, and thought a myth, as well as resistance to fire, is something that only seems to be with her.
She does make choices, but again I don't see her with much of a choice. Either way she's going to be facing down the length of a sword. People will die one way or another. I see it as she has made foolish choices but just as much as Stannis, and she has more of a reason, and more of a nod from powers that are higher that they want her to try to rule. Either it be the seven gods or the new.
There is one great thing about Stannis. He would be a predictable king. It'd be easy to avoid his wrath. If you **** him over or break the law you know what youre gonna get in return. He also doesn't seem to allow emotion to get in the way of his judgements. He sticks to the letter of the law. Stannis may not be cuddly, but he isn't mercurial either and that's the kind of man I'd want as my king.
Wouldn't by law Dany deserve the throne more so? Her father was bad, but they went and killed the next in lines because they wanted the power. Stannis deserves the Throne as much as Dany does. Dany is a successor from that point of view as well. I'm not saying it's perfect, and we won't go into what would really make the difference in Westerosi law. But both have claims to the throne. Really no one "deserves" the throne, and that's part of the show. I'm not saying Dany deserves anything, but I'm not saying the others do either.
My overall point is yes Dany is flawed, but she is hurting as many people as any of the other powerful characters that have a lot of sway in the world. Stannis is killing people, Dany is killing people, and many are suffering for it. To me I just don't get how others see it differently. I've never claiemd that she has not done stupid things, but so did Stannis, and every other character.
I don't see it as God Mode in the sense where she has not suffered consquenes.
By the end of ADWD she had lost everything, and the Slavers Bay is about to explode into war. Things beyond are control are coming too, like Euron, and Martell's etc. She has lost control at the end, and everything she built has crumbled, I'd say that's a consequence, and I would think a god like character would have probably never had that happen to someone like that.
But see you said she's vain because she thinks she's special, and again, yes she is very special. And doing what she can with the powers thrust on her. She's made tons of mistakes but I see it as she's learning a lot about unwinable situations, where some of the stupidity is from her, but a lot of it like most war is from things beyond her control as well, and the nature of people.
I just see her as flawed and "stupid" as any of the other characters out there.
There is one great thing about Stannis. He would be a predictable king. It'd be easy to avoid his wrath. If you **** him over or break the law you know what youre gonna get in return. He also doesn't seem to allow emotion to get in the way of his judgements. He sticks to the letter of the law. Stannis may not be cuddly, but he isn't mercurial either and that's the kind of man I'd want as my king.
But just like in real life, there are laws that are out dated and are injustice in themselves. With a leader like that you will never get any change for the better. To me that would scare me to have a leader like that, the world is grey, don't solve it with black and white.
Dany has claim to the throne if the people are willing to acknowledge the Targs once again. If the people refuse her then Stannis has the right to the throne.
I'm curious to see if Dany will do as her ancestors did and make the people and kingdoms submit by force. Not everyone and every house will accept her. I wonder if she will raze the Houses or go into exile if they refuse her the throne.
Dany has claim to the throne if the people are willing to acknowledge the Targs once again. If the people refuse her then Stannis has the right to the throne.
I'm curious to see if Dany will do as her ancestors did and make the people and kingdoms submit by force. Not everyone and every house will accept her. I wonder if she will raze the houses or go into exile if they refuse her the throne.
I agree, I don't think really either of them have a hand over the other for claim. Both have claims, and both see it as their right by law. I think she may turn dark, I think she might let the Targaryen fully out and possibly be the dragon that is dormant within her.
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