HBO's Game of Thrones - - - - - Part 14

[chamber-music]

 

[Loki882]

I will say that regardless of what you may think of the scene itself, the writers/showrunners attempts to explain/justify it aren't helping matter. They are really not doing a very good job of it, in fact they're just ticking a lot of people off even more.

 

[Kane52630]

Just the fans of the book...always the nitpickers of any given adaption.

 

[StrainedEyes]

I didn't have any problems with the scene, but I guess that's because I didn't read the books to notice a change. It didn't seem out of character to me. He tried murdering a child in the very first episode of the show, rape isn't that much of a leap, especially within the context of the GOT setting.

 

[marcvader]

I was fine with the scene and didn't think anything of it until the internet. Still fine with it but it is annoying that its dominating any discussion.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Sooo is anyone hoping they touch upon that event in future episodes? Would it be worse if it's actually never mentioned again?

 

[Hush]

If it's never mentioned again it will just show further how messed up and disgusting Jamie and Cerseis relationship is.

 

[Kane52630]

Nah I think they will, it was played out as a big scene of the episode.

 

[Iceman]

The Bran thing was done at a time when he was presented as what appeared to be an out and out villain. If this had happened in episode 2 of season 1 I doubt anyone would have given it a 2nd thought. Since then the path he's gone through with Brienne has changed the way we view this guy, either bringing out the surprising good that was there underneath or changing the guy to an extent. This just resets part of the interesting grey back to black and ruins the redemption story that I think most viewers were getting a lot out of. I expected to agree with those who said it wasn't really a rape when I read about it before seeing it but when I saw it it seemed much more unclear and someone arguing either way could make a good case. I'm sure that scene was put in there for a good reason but for that reason to be communicated to most viewers I think it needed to be slightly clearer to everyone (not just the clever ones) whether it was consensual or not. Otherwise it's just a rough sex scene with no new information.

 

[Ajendo]

So, is it agreed that James Bond the hero the world has been watching for 50 odd years raped ***** in Goldfinger's barn? After all, he MADE her see things HIS way.


[YT]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88[/YT]

 

[Bruce Malone]

So, is it agreed that James Bond the hero the world has been watching for 50 odd years raped ***** in Goldfinger's barn? After all, he MADE her see things HIS way.


[YT]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88[/YT]

The thing with the GoT scene is, that you never even saw cersei agree to "see things his way", not that that would have been much better. The scene cut-off while she was still struggling so visually it looks like heavilly implied rape. Without it even appearing like she actually consented at some point.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The most romantic man in American literature.

[YT]RTw6ZLYudPc[/YT]

Even when I was a little kid I wondered why Scarlett was so seemingly satisfied the next day.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I didn't have any problems with the scene, but I guess that's because I didn't read the books to notice a change. It didn't seem out of character to me. He tried murdering a child in the very first episode of the show, rape isn't that much of a leap, especially within the context of the GOT setting.

He stopped Brienne from being raped, he clearly has an objection to it. In the show, this directly leads to him losing his hand. The problem is this now taints his redemption arc since everyone is just going to remember him raping Cersei now. And since they were blunt in making the viewer know Brienne has a crush on Jaime, viewers will think less of her because she is infatuated with a rapist. They went overboard in trying to remind us that a "good guy" isn't completely good.

Rape or not, we cant overlook the fact that he ****ed her on the Sept floor beside his dead son. An action like that wasnt needed at this stage of Jaime's development in the show. It was a massive step back. D&D need an ass chewing for this bit of writing. They know better than this kind of crap.

The only way Ill ever be ok with it is if Jaime shows disgust at himself and stops ****ing Cersei from here on out otherwise Im pretty soured by the whole thing.

I didn't think that was an issue. Jaime and Cersei having sex in the holiest sept in the country in front of the body of their son and king is symbolic of how their relationship is an affront to "the laws of gods and man". When they're together, their world is them and only them, everything else is shut out.

Spoiler

There's a scene later when Cersei comes onto him while in the Lord Commander's chambers but he refuses to there that could drive across the point you want.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Brienne is already infatuated with a guy that murders, throws little boys out of windows and shagged his sister to the result of three children. The idea that redemption comes without its problem just isn't true.

 

[StrainedEyes]

He stopped Brienne from being raped, he clearly has an objection to it. In the show, this directly leads to him losing his hand. The problem is this now taints his redemption arc since everyone is just going to remember him raping Cersei now. And since they were blunt in making the viewer know Brienne has a crush on Jaime, viewers will think less of her because she is infatuated with a rapist. They went overboard in trying to remind us that a "good guy" isn't completely good.

I don't think him stopping Brienne from being raped = him not being someone who would rape. I also don't think viewers will think less of Brienne because she likes him now (that's assuming she'll even find out about it), that seems like a silly assumption to me.

Overall, though, I think the internet has blown this way out of proportion. This was the show reminding us that even though he had some form of a redemptive arch were we sympathized with him, he's still a bad person in love with his even worse/crazier sister.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Jaime can't be "fixed" until he is over his crazy and evil sister. She is the one with a hold on him. As long as he is in love with her, he is never going to be able to truly progress.

I do think it is something that with all the things that happen on this show, this is the thing that has made people lose their minds.

 

[Drz]

Just the fans of the book...always the nitpickers of any given adaption.

No, it's the general audience who is complaining about this scene.

Why else would the director make a statement, Jaime Lannister's actor make a statement, why would ew.com and other sites talk about THAT scene?

George R.R Martin even made a blog post to reassure that there was no rape in his own book for crying out loud.

 

[Bruce Malone]

It threw off the dichotomy for a lot of fans of the show that, Jamie (at least currently)= hero and cercei=evil B. Now it's become Cercei=victim and Jamie=A-hole rapist.

It's like the Joker TDK quote, as soon as something goes off plan people lose their minds.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No, it's the general audience who is complaining about this scene.

Why else would the director make a statement, Jaime Lannister's actor make a statement, why would ew.com and other sites talk about THAT scene?

George R.R Martin even made a blog post to reassure that there was no rape in his own book for crying out loud.

Pretty sure those interviews were done earlier.

Second, what exactly are people complaining about if they haven't read the book?

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I don't think him stopping Brienne from being raped = him not being someone who would rape. I also don't think viewers will think less of Brienne because she likes him now (that's assuming she'll even find out about it), that seems like a silly assumption to me.

It doesn't matter if Brienne finds out because the audience knows.

Overall, though, I think the internet has blown this way out of proportion. This was the show reminding us that even though he had some form of a redemptive arch were we sympathized with him, he's still a bad person in love with his even worse/crazier sister.

Yes, he's still a bad person but they don't need to turn him into a rapist to make that point.

Pretty sure those interviews were done earlier.

Second, what exactly are people complaining about if they haven't read the book?

Because it was a rape scene that was uncomfortable to watch.

 

[Marvolo]

Jaime can't be "fixed" until he is over his crazy and evil sister. She is the one with a hold on him. As long as he is in love with her, he is never going to be able to truly progress.

I do think it is something that with all the things that happen on this show, this is the thing that has made people lose their minds.

Youre right about him having to get over his sister. Perhaps this is the catalyst for that.

He stopped Brienne from being raped, he clearly has an objection to it. In the show, this directly leads to him losing his hand. The problem is this now taints his redemption arc since everyone is just going to remember him raping Cersei now. And since they were blunt in making the viewer know Brienne has a crush on Jaime, viewers will think less of her because she is infatuated with a rapist. They went overboard in trying to remind us that a "good guy" isn't completely good.



I didn't think that was an issue. Jaime and Cersei having sex in the holiest sept in the country in front of the body of their son and king is symbolic of how their relationship is an affront to "the laws of gods and man". When they're together, their world is them and only them, everything else is shut out.

Spoiler

There's a scene later when Cersei comes onto him while in the Lord Commander's chambers but he refuses to there that could drive across the point you want.

That spoiler bit would certainly help matters. I just dont want this to turn out to be just the writers trying to remind us he isnt good, cause like you say and others are saying, if thats all it was then it was overboard.

 

[Victarion]

What about the lad who watched his mommy and daddy get carved into steaks by the Thenns?

 

[Marvolo]

What about the lad who watched his mommy and daddy get carved into steaks by the Thenns?

That was ****ed up. Cant wait to see that bastard die!

 

[PWN3R]

I didn't realize how crazy this situation is getting. People are maadddd. I do think the comments by the director and Benioff dance around the issue, and by them not taking a stance by calling it rape or not makes people angrier.

I just don't get why they made that scene so drastically different. Maybe they felt like having Cersei's period blood all over both characters was too much, so for the HBO the next logical solution was rape. This is sarcasm for those of you who can't tell.

I'm not really bothered by the changes because their relationship is beyond ****ed up, and I am capable of separating the show and the books. However, I am clueless why it was changed. It makes no sense. None. Hopefully its consequences will be felt in future episodes and maybe make the writer's intentions more clear.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It doesn't matter if Brienne finds out because the audience knows.


Yes, he's still a bad person but they don't need to turn him into a rapist to make that point.



Because it was a rape scene that was uncomfortable to watch.

Welcome to Game of Thrones.