HBO's Game of Thrones - - - - Part 13

[DarthSkywalker]

I never said that it'd be the whole episode, just like the Red Wedding wasn't the whole of The Rains of Castamere and Ned's execution wasn't the entirety of Baelor. I wouldn't rule out Dany and Drogon or something like that happening as well, but Theon's redemption is definitely going to be one of the big moments of episode 9. He may not be Dany, he may not be a Lannister, but the audience knows him as the adopted Stark son and given that the setting will be [blackout] Winterfell [/blackout] his ties with the Starks will be reinforced even more.

So far each episode 9 has had the defining scene from a certain plot, which is usually pretty lengthy, that defines it. They base the episode around that scene. Everything else fades to black with Ned's execution, Blackwater is lieterally the entire episode. The Red Wedding has popu culture status.

That doesn't mean there aren't other good things involved. Baelor is a fantastic episode from start to finish. Rains of Castamere is pretty darn good as well. But that isn't the selling point of either episode.

Your emotional climax is Jon. That's great, he's a great character and very likely the hero of the whole saga. But ADWD was about a lot more than him, may not have even been massive game changing Ice vs Fire stuff, but the human element was there and Theon was at the centre of that.

For you Theon was that. For me, it was Jon. And while there was a lot more to ADWD, not much that I find all that interesting or compelling. But that is me.

 

[Lord]

I think GRRM said not that long ago that he has left explicit instructions to not let anybody finish the series of books for him, even if he dies. It's a shame that he may not even get to publish his planed Fire and Blood silmarillion type of book about the Targaryen line.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think GRRM said not that long ago that he has left explicit instructions to not let anybody finish the series of books for him, even if he dies. It's a shame that he may not even get to publish his planed Fire and Blood silmarillion type of book about the Targaryen line.

This is confirmed. Mentioned it on the last page.

 

[Roose Bolton]

For you Theon was that. For me, it was Jon. And while there was a lot more to ADWD, not much that I find all that interesting or compelling. But that is me.

Well that's Your opinion and your prerogative. I respect that, but I cannot agree with you. I didn't like the last two books as much as the others, but I think they have value and the stuff they deal with has meaning.

 

[Drz]

Anyone else think George R.R Martin was purposely lying on the interview? I mean, i can't and i refuse to believe he literally would think they can spin Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons for 3 whole seasons, that'd mean Arya Stark would be a damn bona-fina woman.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Anyone else think George R.R Martin was purposely lying on the interview? I mean, i can't and i refuse to believe he literally would think they can spin Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons for 3 whole seasons, that'd mean Arya Stark would be a damn bona-fina woman.

She is going to be 17 next month. Using the GRRM timeline, she will be able to get the senior citizen's discount at Sizzler by the time the last season is ready to go.

 

[Hyde]

I think it's a matter of when, not if, in regards to the show catching up to the books. A Dance with Dragons was released 2011, and The Winds of Winter is apparently coming out next year. That's a four-year gap. If the time gap stays the same then that puts A Dream of Spring for release in 2019 at the earliest. That would be Season 9 in terms of show chronology, and further than they want to carry on for.

In short, hurry the **** up George.

 

[Lord]

Actually, right now, Winds of Winter is still scheduled for 2014 until GRRM says it's not, or the year ends. Also, with his history, we're not even sure if by the end of it, the saga is still going to be 7 books.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The last word on the next book is possibly 2015, with 2016 being more likely.

 

[Hyde]

Plenty of publishers are saying it won't be before 2015. I think it's more likely it'll come out Winter next year than 2016, tbh. George is slow but he knows if he doesn't get it out soon he'll be in trouble.

 

[squeekness]

Anyone else think George R.R Martin was purposely lying on the interview? I mean, i can't and i refuse to believe he literally would think they can spin Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons for 3 whole seasons, that'd mean Arya Stark would be a damn bona-fina woman.

I think the bigger problem would be if fans would be willing to stick with a show that long. Fans are fickle and if progress comes too slowly, they will dump the show and move on to something else. As much as I want it, I still wonder if this show can keep going until they have covered all of the books.

 

[Lord]

I've seen people complaining that not much happened in Season 3 already, 4 seems to have a lot going on, which will probably put some minds at ease, but if you then give then 2 or 3 seasons where nothing happens, then you'll have a major problem.

 

[Marvolo]

I think GRRM said not that long ago that he has left explicit instructions to not let anybody finish the series of books for him, even if he dies. It's a shame that he may not even get to publish his planed Fire and Blood silmarillion type of book about the Targaryen line.

What a prick.

 

[Hyde]

I can see where he's coming from but once you've started writing a book series which has spawned a globally-successful TV series, video games, a huge and loyal fanbase and become ingrained in pop culture, you have a certain obligation to the fans and to HBO to finish it.

Baring in mind that A Game of Thrones was published in 1996, which was 18 years ago. That's older than me, and more than enough time to finish writing the series. It's really no one's fault but his own.

 

[Drz]

It's not his fault his work has become popular, he has no obligations, not even certain ones.

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo creator died long before he got to see his work become popular and now the publishers are making a 4th book, do you really think creators and people care about obligations? Cash-ins will be always made one way or another. :b

 

[Marvolo]

It's not his fault his work has become popular, he has no obligations, not even certain ones.

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo creator died long before he got to see his work become popular and now the publishers are making a 4th book, do you really think creators and people care about obligations? Cash-ins will be always made one way or another. :b

Imo, and feel free to disagree, when you create art and share it with the world it no longer solely belongs to you. It belongs to humanity and our culture. People, not everyone, create art to share it with others and because that sharing brings them happiness. If GRRM is in this category then he should let it live on without him. To not do so is selfish. I didn't buy his books so that he could procrastinate with his riches and waste my time. It's a waste of my money to further invest in his story if he refuses to give it a proper ending.

Furthermore after he is dead why does he care? He will be dead and gone with no thought or care and he can't take the books with him. If he wants this story and his legacy to live on and stand the test of time then it needs an ending otherwise it will be forgotten or be remembered as that great story that had no ending cause the writer was a procrastinator and a selfish man. Is that the legacy he wants? Surely not. It's in his best interest to change his mind, swallow his pride and recognize that someone should finish this if he dies. He has entrusted his notes and ending to D&D so he can entrust the book ending to someone else of his choosing. It's not asking much.

Another thing to consider is if he doesn't give it an ending and by some freak chance the story survives a century or two then it will enter public domain and someone will give it an ending regardless of his wishes. So it comes down to, he can get his ass in gear and finish it himself, let someone else finish it for him, or he can let it be left open multiple sub par endings when it enters public license domain. It's his choice, but not finishing it and not letting someone of his choosing finish it is the two dumbest decisions the man could make.

 

[Iceman]

I think the bigger problem would be if fans would be willing to stick with a show that long. Fans are fickle and if progress comes too slowly, they will dump the show and move on to something else. As much as I want it, I still wonder if this show can keep going until they have covered all of the books.

I'll be there. I find all the sideshows and great character interactions more than enough to keep me interested even if the overall plot only inches forward (very different to how I usually view a TV show).

I can see where he's coming from but once you've started writing a book series which has spawned a globally-successful TV series, video games, a huge and loyal fanbase and become ingrained in pop culture, you have a certain obligation to the fans and to HBO to finish it.

Baring in mind that A Game of Thrones was published in 1996, which was 18 years ago. That's older than me, and more than enough time to finish writing the series. It's really no one's fault but his own.

It's not his fault his work has become popular, he has no obligations, not even certain ones.

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo creator died long before he got to see his work become popular and now the publishers are making a 4th book, do you really think creators and people care about obligations? Cash-ins will be always made one way or another. :b

I guess he doesn't have to finish the book series but once he signed the original TV show deal part of the product is not totally his any more, and he doesn't really have a right to stop those guys finishing the TV show story for him if he dies before writing the last book. And then someone novelising the part of the show that he didn't write doesn't sound like an outrageous step. I can understand it to an extent as he'll be judged partially on what someone else wrote and how well they ended the characters (aside from the broad strokes that they would know about from him) and tying up all the minor issues and intricacies. Every little thing that doesn't get paid off in the right way will makes his setup look weaker than he had planned and many of the most minor issues are probably in the back of his mind somewhere to come out during the writing process rather than ready to be summarised ahead of time. But then people will treat however the TV show ends as canon and he'll judged by that anyway.

 

[Drz]

Imo, and feel free to disagree, when you create art and share it with the world it no longer solely belongs to you. It belongs to humanity and our culture. People, not everyone, create art to share it with others and because that sharing brings them happiness. If GRRM is in this category then he should let it live on without him. To not do so is selfish. I didn't buy his books so that he could procrastinate with his riches and waste my time. It's a waste of my money to further invest in his story if he refuses to give it a proper ending.

Furthermore after he is dead why does he care? He will be dead and gone with no thought or care and he can't take the books with him. If he wants this story and his legacy to live on and stand the test of time then it needs an ending otherwise it will be forgotten or be remembered as that great story that had no ending cause the writer was a procrastinator and a selfish man. Is that the legacy he wants? Surely not. It's in his best interest to change his mind, swallow his pride and recognize that someone should finish this if he dies. He has entrusted his notes and ending to D&D so he can entrust the book ending to someone else of his choosing. It's not asking much.

I don't believe he denies an ending, he simply doesn't want other writers and potentially the publisher to get in the way. Game of Thrones, by his account is already so different, even if the ending will be sort of same, it's still not the George R.R Martin version of it, and only he can do it the way he does it.

How would you feel if someone else finished the story and decided to change things drastically? Or have some writer copypaste Martin's note and write something that is such a copy, it lacks any raw imagination or writing?

When Martin dies, Westeros will live on with fan fiction, such as Game of Thrones television series, games, comics, rpgs and so on.

But then people will treat however the TV show ends as canon and he'll judged by that anyway.

He doesn't have to care about that, once the tv show is over, he'll still have his large base of book fans who meet him at cons, write on his blog and whatnot. He doesn't have to care what casual fans like Obama think. :b

 

[Marvolo]

I don't believe he denies an ending, he simply doesn't want other writers and potentially the publisher to get in the way. Game of Thrones, by his account is already so different, even if the ending will be sort of same, it's still not the George R.R Martin version of it, and only he can do it the way he does it.

How would you feel if someone else finished the story and decided to change things drastically? Or have some writer copypaste Martin's note and write something that is such a copy, it lacks any raw imagination or writing?

When Martin dies, Westeros will live on with fan fiction, such as Game of Thrones television series, games, comics, rpgs and so on.



He doesn't have to care about that, once the tv show is over, he'll still have his large base of book fans who meet him at cons, write on his blog and whatnot. He doesn't have to care what casual fans like Obama think. :b

That's why we have legal contracts, notaries, and notes. With all three his story would be in a safe hands if he personally picked the author to complete his story in the event of his death. He has author's that he admires. His estate would also over see it. So it's not like some hack writer could run wild and change everything. That's not how it works.

And when I'm dead I won't give a **** what someone does with my stuff. I'll be dead.

And the tv show isn't fan fiction. It's sanctioned by GRRM. And regardless of his wishes the story will have an ending. The tv show will have an ending. And if he dies before completing his books then that will be the canon ending until someone writes an official ending for his books. Eventually his books will enter the public domain. And someone will slap an ending on it. So he can fight the inevitable until he's dead and it's at the mercy of others or he can be responsible and make sure the ending he wants is in print. It's up to him, but one way or another this story will have an official ending at some point in the future whether he is dead or alive. So if I were him and I did care about my creation and what becomes of it after my death I'd get my ass in gear, and get the top tier canon ending put in print instead of being a procrastinating ass-hat about the whole thing. But that's just me.

 

[Drz]

The television series is an adaptation of his work and it's already a different story with the details. You can consider it fan fiction easily.

 

[ThePhantasm]

By the time his work enters public domain, people won't care enough about Game of Thrones to give the books an ending.

 

[Marvolo]

The television series is an adaptation of his work and it's already a different story with the details. You can consider it fan fiction easily.

No you can't. That'd be like saying the Harry Potter films are fan fiction which is ludicrous. Adaptations are second tier Canon, and if it gets an ending and the books (top tier Canon) never gets an ending then the show ending becomes the defacto ending for majority of fans. First generation book purists fans might be reluctant to accept the show's ending, but years from now when Martin is dead and they still don't have a book ending the show ending will become the defacto ending. Martin must realize this so I don't buy that he is trying to protect his story. If he really wanted to protect his story he will make sure it gets the ending he wants in print. When it comes down to it and death's staring him in the face and he can no longer procrastinate he will fold like a house of cards, and hire someone to finish the story.

By the time his work enters public domain, people won't care enough about Game of Thrones to give the books an ending.

Do you know of this little property known as Sherlock Holmes? It just entered the public domain in the U.S. I hear it's pretty popular for its age.

 

[Drz]

The truth is, there is no right or wrong in this argument, you believe one thing, i believe another.

The beautiful thing however is, Martin doesn't have to give a damn.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Do you know of this property known as Sherlock Holmes. It just entered the public domain in the U.S. I hear it's pretty popular for its age.

Um, what is that supposed to prove about Game of Thrones?

 

[Roose Bolton]

Regardless, I don't think GRRM will die before finishing the books. The tv show finishing first is one thing, but I think whatever happens with that we'll get the books themselves finished.