Heath Ledger or Cristoph Waltz?

[lime]

There’s a big chance that a thread like that was already made, or, it’s not it’s place here, but I was wondering.

In my circle of friends the we have an argument on who had the best performance. Ledger, or Waltz. The both actors take all the awards there was, including the Quadruple crown (Oscar, Globe, BAFTA, and SAG), and only 8 actors in history had won the crown.

So, please rate only the performances! If you don’t like TDK or the Basterds (or even hate it), don’t vote in pure hatred, just vote for the performance.

HEATH LEDGER
(The Dark Knight) (2008)
WON: Oscar, BAFTA, Golden Globe, and Screen Actor Guild.

​

CRISTOPH WALTZ
(Inglourious Basterds) (2009)
WON: Oscar, BAFTA, Golden Globe, and Screen Actor Guild.

​

 

[Hush]

Theya re both equal man, very very tough.

 

[scifiwolf]

I think both are still too fresh to have this kind of debate. Need to let them sink in and gain some more cultural..i dunno...context.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I like them equally so I will not vote.

 

[Raiden]

I like them equally so I will not vote.

Same here. Both Ledger & Waltz deserved the Oscar for their respective roles, and both outshined the other leads in the movies whenever they appear on the screen. And both will be known as some of the most memorable roles in a Hollywood movie.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Same here. Both Ledger & Waltz deserved the Oscar for their respective roles, and both outshined the other leads in the movies whenever they appear on the screen. And both will be known as some of the most memorable roles in a Hollywood movie.

Agreed.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Same here. Both Ledger & Waltz deserved the Oscar for their respective roles, and both outshined the other leads in the movies whenever they appear on the screen. And both will be known as some of the most memorable roles in a Hollywood movie.

If you asked Tarantino, I'm certain he would say Landa is the most important character in that film. I'm not sure what Nolan would say in the case of TDK, but if you look at the plot the Joker is clearly the most important character in the movie. Without his actions, there would be no movie at all. He's the main plot device. Nolan compared him to the shark in Jaws, which I think is a fair comparison when you look at the structure of the movie. He just keeps popping back into the story to cause problems for everyone else.

 

[Max J Power]

Definitely Waltz. I wasn't really that into Ledger's Joker.

 

[SuperBatman]

I'd have to say Heath Ledger. Although it is very close.

 

[Matt]

Waltz, he was actually deserving of his award. While Ledger was very good, Downey and Hoffman were more deserving. As was Michael Sheen for Frost/Nixon although he was snubbed. Ledger won on the merit of dying. Waltz won on the merit of his acting.

 

[wattabrownsound]

I haven't seen Inglorious Basterds but with Heath Ledger's performance's it actually got people mimicking some of Joker's sayings.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Waltz, he was actually deserving of his award. While Ledger was very good, Downey and Hoffman were more deserving. As was Michael Sheen for Frost/Nixon although he was snubbed. Ledger won on the merit of dying. Waltz won on the merit of his acting.

I disagree. I felt Ledger was every bit as deserving as the other three you mentioned.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Waltz, he was actually deserving of his award. While Ledger was very good, Downey and Hoffman were more deserving. As was Michael Sheen for Frost/Nixon although he was snubbed. Ledger won on the merit of dying. Waltz won on the merit of his acting.

While I disagree about Ledger not deserving the award, I'm voting to Chrisoph Waltz.

I just feel like that Waltz as Landa was harder to pull off than Ledger as Joker. Like Tarantino said, Waltz was the only one that understood even the most subtle of Tarantino's puns and jokes of Landa in IB. He had to pull of many different personalities; from intimidating to overjoyed to humourous and he held that perfect balance. Just look at the beginning of IB, the scene with him where he kills Bridget von Hammersmark, and the interrogation scene with him, Brad Pitt, and BJ Novak. Those three scenes alone got him the Oscar, and those show a wide range of emotions.

 

[redfirebird2008]

While I disagree about Ledger not deserving the award, I'm voting to Chrisoph Waltz.

I just feel like that Waltz as Landa was harder to pull off than Ledger as Joker. Like Tarantino said, Waltz was the only one that understood even the most subtle of Tarantino's puns and jokes of Landa in IB. He had to pull of many different personalities; from intimidating to overjoyed to humourous and he held that perfect balance. Just look at the beginning of IB, the scene with him where he kills Bridget von Hammersmark, and the interrogation scene with him, Brad Pitt, and BJ Novak. Those three scenes alone got him the Oscar, and those show a wide range of emotions.

Ledger's Joker was all over the place too. Fake Batman hostage interview comes to mind.

 

[Fenrir]

Waltz was awesome, but I doubt he will attain the iconic status of Heath Ledger's Joker. All this babble about Heath Ledger's Oscar because of his death is pure nonsense - the cast, crew and anyone who had a glimpse of The Joker had already been raving about his performance since as far back as a year before TDK's release. Not to mention Landa was still recognizable as Christopher Waltz, whereas anyone would be hard-pressed to find the gay cowboy from Brokeback Mountain or the prissy adolescent from The Patriot in Ledger's Joker. It was almost as if they were played by completely different actors.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Waltz was awesome, but I doubt he will attain the iconic status of Heath Ledger's Joker. All this babble about Heath Ledger's Oscar because of his death is pure nonsense - the cast, crew and anyone who had a glimpse of The Joker had already been raving about his performance since as far back as a year before TDK's release. Not to mention Landa was still recognizable as Christopher Waltz, whereas anyone would be hard-pressed to find the gay cowboy from Brokeback Mountain or the prissy adolescent from The Patriot in Ledger's Joker. It was almost as if they were played by completely different actors.

To be fair, part of that is because he was in messy clown makeup.

 

[Fenrir]

Ledger's Joker was all over the place too. Fake Batman hostage interview comes to mind.

Yup. He was a nihilistic psycho throughout most of the film, but his role was a far cry from the 'one-note performance' crap the naysayers keep bringing up again and again. The handheld camera scene, the made-up stories about his scars he narrates to Gambol and Rachel, seducing Dent at the hospital, the interrogation scene, the final showdown with Batman...Heath absolutely nailed each and every one of them and then some.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Yup. He was a nihilistic psycho throughout most of the film, but his role was a far cry from the 'one-note performance' crap the naysayers keep bringing up again and again. The handheld camera scene, the made-up stories about his scars he narrates to Gambol and Rachel, seducing Dent at the hospital, the interrogation scene, the final showdown with Batman...Heath absolutely nailed each and every one of them and then some.

I haven't read the script myself but I heard he actually downplayed some of the over the top stuff in the script, which is of course a good thing. It would be very easy to go all-out over the top with the Joker. It is the Joker after all. What he did was brilliant. I've nitpicked the movie quite a bit, but the only nitpick I can come up with against his work is the pronunciation of "fair" during the Hospital scene. When I first saw it, I thought he was saying "fear," which actually kinda makes sense. He was referring to chaos, which is indeed both fair and fear at the same time. But the Blu-ray subtitles say "fair," so I assume that's what he was saying.

 

[Fenrir]

To be fair, part of that is because he was in messy clown makeup.

Not exactly. The Joker had a lot of very eccentric mannerisms and Heath's voice and accent are completely different from his other roles. It's a lot like the difference between watching Daniel Day-Lewis play the blue-blooded aristocrat in The Age of Innocence and then wrapping your head around the fact that the same 'innocent' guy is so convincing as the barbaric Bill The Butcher. Sure, the visual aspect is there, but both Heath's and Day-Lewis' roles had a lot more substance than just the makeup job as well.

 

[Fenrir]

I've nitpicked the movie quite a bit, but the only nitpick I can come up with against his work is the pronunciation of "fair" during the Hospital scene. When I first saw it, I thought he was saying "fear," which actually kinda makes sense. He was referring to chaos, which is indeed both fair and fear at the same time. But the Blu-ray subtitles say "fair," so I assume that's what he was saying.

See? Heath's Joker was so awesome that even when you heard him wrong, he is right. Beat that, Chuck Norris!

 

[redfirebird2008]

Not exactly. The Joker had a lot of very eccentric mannerisms and Heath's voice and accent are completely different from his other roles. It's a lot like the difference between watching Daniel Day-Lewis play the blue-blooded aristocrat in The Age of Innocence and then wrapping your head around the fact that the same 'innocent' guy is so convincing as the barbaric Bill The Butcher. Sure, the visual aspect is there, but both Heath's and Day-Lewis' roles had a lot more substance than just the makeup job as well.

I know what you are saying and I fully agree with that. It wasn't Ledger. It was "something else entirely" as Ducard would say. But to be fair on your point about Waltz, if you have seen him in interviews and so forth it's pretty hard to believe how different he is from Landa. He's nowhere near as confident as Landa. He seems like a very shy person, yet during that movie he was both charming and very menacing depending on the situation. Seeing him doing interviews reminds me of seeing DDL doing interviews and then watching Bill the Butcher or Daniel Plainview. It's hard to believe such nice, humble guys can turn into these larger than life characters. Ledger's performance made me feel the same way. He was a shy, humble guy during interviews and yet he turned into the amazing Clown Prince of Crime in TDK.

 

[CBGB]

Waltz.

 

[Fenrir]

I know what you are saying and I fully agree with that. It wasn't Ledger. It was "something else entirely" as Ducard would say. But to be fair on your point about Waltz, if you have seen him in interviews and so forth it's pretty hard to believe how different he is from Landa. He's nowhere near as confident as Landa. He seems like a very shy person, yet during that movie he was both charming and very menacing depending on the situation. Seeing him doing interviews reminds me of seeing DDL doing interviews and then watching Bill the Butcher or Daniel Plainview. It's hard to believe such nice, humble guys can turn into these larger than life characters. Ledger's performance made me feel the same way. He was a shy, humble guy during interviews and yet he turned into the amazing Clown Prince of Crime in TDK.

See that's the thing. We're talking about a 'complete transformation' here. I would be lying if I said I didn't see a bit of Christopher Waltz in Landa. It is there whenever Landa is sweet-talking to someone or appears to be somewhat more reasonable than his terrifying reputation. And when you look at him, well, it is undeniably Christopher Waltz. But in the case of Daniel Day-Lewis Bill The Butcher and Heath Ledger's Joker, the actors as we know them to be in real life from interviews and so forth are nowhere to be seen. Bill The Butcher is absolutely NOTHING like Daniel Day-Lewis, The Joker is NOTHING like Heath Ledger - they look completely different, sound completely different, act completely different...that's what I mean by a 'complete transformation'.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Ledger's Joker was all over the place too. Fake Batman hostage interview comes to mind.

Yeah, I know. Ledger's joker was humorous and intimidating at times too. What I'm saying is that Joker's was humorous for the sake of being intimidating (and sarcastic) while when Landa was being humorous it was to be funny, if any that makes sense (it probably doesn't).

In short, Joker's humor was part of his intimidation while Landa's didn't (most of the time). It's hard to stay intimidating when you have scene's like this:

[YT]7duP4d9ZziY[/YT]

There are probably better examples, but I love that scene. I chose Waltz but not by much. If you said better character though, I would probably go with

Waltz was awesome, but I doubt he will attain the iconic status of Heath Ledger's Joker. All this babble about Heath Ledger's Oscar because of his death is pure nonsense - the cast, crew and anyone who had a glimpse of The Joker had already been raving about his performance since as far back as a year before TDK's release. Not to mention Landa was still recognizable as Christopher Waltz, whereas anyone would be hard-pressed to find the gay cowboy from Brokeback Mountain or the prissy adolescent from The Patriot in Ledger's Joker. It was almost as if they were played by completely different actors.

He's not. Landa isn't trademark franchise character who 70+ year history not only changed comics and film, but all of pop culture. And Joker's going to continue being on screen whether in the next Nolan film or maybe even longer.

I haven't seen Inglorious Basterds but with Heath Ledger's performance's it actually got people mimicking some of Joker's sayings.

I don't know, since IB I can't stop saying "That's a Bingo" haha

 

[CBGB]

I haven't seen Inglorious Basterds but with Heath Ledger's performance's it actually got people mimicking some of Joker's sayings.

No offence, but watch Inglorious Basterds before you post in here.