The Dark Knight Rises Heath's Joker CAN be brought back...But do we WANT it back?

[CaptainClown]

I wouldn't mind a Joker cameo, using the car footage that was cut. Maybe a scene or two before we can hear Gordon telling Batman that his 'friend' escaped from Arkham again. Show a house in Gotham, establish it earlier to be the mayor's. We hear a gunshot, and then the front door slam as we see into the dark house. We see a car pull up to the curb, and then it will cut back to the house as the windows blow out.

Now we can use the footage from the car scene, with a henchmen dubbed. 'You just killed the mayor.'

Joker: 'I'm a man of my wuurd.'

Just that keeps a stronger bond with the world that Nolan's created. Joker's a great character - you can do a lot with a little.

I always say that, and people seem to look over it. There are deleted scenes of the Joker that they could EASILY incorporate into the movie.

 

[thundercatsho]

It would feel weird and awkward not having the Joker.

 

[The Major]

It would feel weird and awkward not having the Joker.

Did it feel awkward and weird for you in Batman Begins?

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Did it feel awkward and weird for you in Batman Begins?

What you fail to realize is that when the Joker said, "We're destined to do this forever", that we literally MUST see the Joker in every Batman movie from here on out!

Some people like to take that line quite literally but Batman's very next line, "You'll be in a padded cell forever" doesn't seem to be taken quite as literally.

 

[The Major]

What you fail to realize is that when the Joker said, "We're destined to do this forever", that we literally MUST see the Joker in every Batman movie from here on out!

Did you mean to quote me?

I took that quote as a tip of the hat to the Batman mythos which the two characters will be fighting each other as long as people have stories to tell with them.

Some people like to take that line quite literally but Batman's very next line, "You'll be in a padded cell forever" doesn't seem to be taken quite as literally.

It doesn't mean he should be appearing in the third film, though. Heath's death may have altered Nolan's original plan. He could still bring Joke in with a recast, of course.

Wasn't implying Joker couldn't be used in a future sequel.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Did you mean to quote me?

I took that quote as a tip of the hat to the Batman mythos which the two characters will be fighting each other as long as people have stories to tell with them.

It doesn't mean he should be appearing in the third film, though. Heath's death may have altered Nolan's original plan. He could still bring Joke in with a recast, of course.

Wasn't implying Joker couldn't be used in a future sequel.

I quoted you but was actually agreeing with you and just stating what one of the counter arguments have been which I don't agree with. But yea, I took his line as a nod to the comics but not necessarily to be taken literally, such as believing now the character must appear in every film or HAS to appear in the next film for that matter.

 

[The Major]

I quoted you but was actually agreeing with you and just stating what one of the counter arguments have been which I don't agree with. But yea, I took his line as a nod to the comics but not necessarily to be taken literally, such as believing now the character must appear in every film or HAS to appear in the next film for that matter.

Okay.

 

[Dark Globe]

Why not bring the joker into an ANIMATED movie that bridges The Dark Knight and the next movie!?!? You could get Mark Hamill to do the voice.

 

[CaptainClown]

Why not bring the joker into an ANIMATED movie that bridges The Dark Knight and the next movie!?!? You could get Mark Hamill to do the voice.

YES! LIKE CLONE WARS!

 

[Victarion]

Moar necromancy plz.

Otherwise we need to move on.

 

[Dark Globe]

YES! LIKE CLONE WARS!

Hey, Clone Wars(THE SERIES) ruled. I'm not talking about a CGI film, I'm talking about a CARTOON version. Maybe they could get some of the animators from Gotham Knight back.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Completely aree.

I was just saying that people tend to say that recasting would be disrespectful (how, though? I have no idea), when this is far worse than anything.

That, I completely agree with. I think if you're going to take Heath's work into your own hands, you should continue, instead of modify it, as they would have to in order to animate The Joker.

Plus, that would just be fugly.

 

[SPIDERMAN117]

I wouldn't mind a Joker cameo, using the car footage that was cut. Maybe a scene or two before we can hear Gordon telling Batman that his 'friend' escaped from Arkham again. Show a house in Gotham, establish it earlier to be the mayor's. We hear a gunshot, and then the front door slam as we see into the dark house. We see a car pull up to the curb, and then it will cut back to the house as the windows blow out.

Now we can use the footage from the car scene, with a henchmen dubbed. 'You just killed the mayor.'

Joker: 'I'm a man of my wuurd.'

Just that keeps a stronger bond with the world that Nolan's created. Joker's a great character - you can do a lot with a little.

Now that is a genious idea

 

[nickyg641]

You just proved the other side's argument there. Scarecrow's appearance was not necessary and could have easily been written out. It was a nice nod to the fans, and lucky for us Cillian Murphy is still around to play the part. However, was it needed to further the plot? Not really. Would it have been worth re-casting Scarecrow if Cillian Murphy couldn't do it? No. All this talk of Joker being necessary for the third film... considering it hasn't even been written yet, I'd say it's safe to say even if Nolan had originally planned to be use the Joker, that can be changed.

By the same token, there is absolutely no reason why the Joker's reappearance cannot have meaning and releavence to the plot.

People always talk about how including the Joker would somehow steal screentime from other villains, but, honestly, why would it? Did Maroni steal the Joker's screentime, or did the Scarecrow? When the Joker's on screen are you going to be rolling your eyes and thinking, "Oh, God, it's him again...when are we going to get back to Crazy Quilt?"

No. If the Joker's role is important to the story, and I see no reason why such a thing is impossible, he won't be "stealing screentime" from anyone, in the same way that Dent isn't "stealing" Gordon's screentime or what have you.

 

[Untilteld]

Joker copycats, one leader of the copycats, 'nuff said.

 

[nickyg641]

Joker copycats, one leader of the copycats, 'nuff said.

Why are people who end their posts with "'nuff said" always the ones that need to say more (or nothing at all)?

 

[crazyrabbits]

There's no reason to include him in the next one. TDK accurately summarized the entire state of Batman and Joker's relationship: "We're destined to do this forever." We already know what will happen if the Joker gets out again, just like we've known in the past 60 years of his appearance in comic books. Nolan basically distilled the essence of their relationship into a 2.5-hour movie. There's nothing else that needs to be done with him.

 

[souvlaki]

By the same token, there is absolutely no reason why the Joker's reappearance cannot have meaning and releavence to the plot.

People always talk about how including the Joker would somehow steal screentime from other villains, but, honestly, why would it? Did Maroni steal the Joker's screentime, or did the Scarecrow? When the Joker's on screen are you going to be rolling your eyes and thinking, "Oh, God, it's him again...when are we going to get back to Crazy Quilt?"

No. If the Joker's role is important to the story, and I see no reason why such a thing is impossible, he won't be "stealing screentime" from anyone, in the same way that Dent isn't "stealing" Gordon's screentime or what have you.

The point being though that without a script written there is no such thing as the Joker being vital to the plot, because to our knowledge there isn't one yet. So why force another actor into the role when it's not necessary? It just makes more sense (to me at least) to just not to write him into the film at all instead of getting someone else to play him. It's not like we will never see another live action portrayal of the Joker ever. In the grand scheme of things having the Joker sit out one film just for the sake of continuity is not that big of a deal. I personally dont mind waiting until another director takes over the series, especially given that Nolan has implied pretty heavily the next one will be his last.

 

[nickyg641]

I'll be completely honest, I would like to se a recast because, well, I'd like to see the character again. He was beautifully written in TDK, and I firmly believe that there are actors capable of producing a performance that both maintains the elements that Heath introduced while also keeping it fresh, not simply seeing another actor impersonate Ledger.

And, after all, we really don't need anything. It's entirely up to the writers what the story necessitates, and if they create a role that is relavent to the plot and does bring something new to the table, why not?

Also, to me, it just seems that, if they're condensing 70 years of comics into two movies, it would make sense that Batman greatest foe, one whom he has encountered thousands upon thousands of times, be at least featured in two films consecutively. Not even necessarily as the main villain. I think the character deserves more than to be featured once and never heard from again.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

The point being though that without a script written there is no such thing as the Joker being vital to the plot, because to our knowledge there isn't one yet. So why force another actor into the role when it's not necessary? It just makes more sense (to me at least) to just not to write him into the film at all instead of getting someone else to play him. It's not like we will never see another live action portrayal of the Joker ever. In the grand scheme of things having the Joker sit out one film just for the sake of continuity is not that big of a deal. I personally dont mind waiting until another director takes over the series, especially given that Nolan has implied pretty heavily the next one will be his last.

Completely agreed.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

I like how The Guard put it:

They got to know each other about as well thematically as they will ever need to in order to understand and loathe or love one another. The themes and nature of their relationship was explored, albeit briefly. Another movie featuring those themes would be just that. Another movie featuring those themes. You wouldn't generally introduce a character in one arc, do him almost complete justice, complete his arc, send him to Arkham, and then bring him right back in the next arc would you? Why should Batman's movie world work any differently? It's not like Barbara Gordon's going to get crippled and Jason Todd's going to get murdered in this movie franchise. Batman and Joker had their dance. Their relationship has been represented.

Could it be done? Sure. But it would be done at the expense of another, perhaps very deserving character. Or two of them. Or three. But humor me. Give a reason for The Joker to reappear in the sequel that would begin to approach the level of his portrayal in THE DARK KNIGHT, but not merely repeat themes or feel "borrowed".

It's made clear in The Dark Knight that The Joker is alive, and that he thinks he and Batman are destined to do this forever. Is that enough? Not even close, and that's half the beauty of it. It leaves you wanting more.

 

[nickyg641]

Obviously, it's not up to me where they go with the character. But I'm sure that in in the Joker's 70 years in print, they can find something to do with him.

 

[Sentinel X]

Honestly I wouldn't care if they brought him back.
I actually DO want him back. I liked Heath Ledger but he is an actor...I didn't know him and even if I did I don't see why I should end a role because he died. It makes no sense.

 

[ScarecrowMan666]

I would like to see Joker have some influence on the movie as a whole, but I don't think it's necessary to get another actor to portray him. Mentions of him can be made, maybe even a disembodied voice at Arkham. He can be in it, without actually being in it, if that makes sense.

 

[Nirvana]