Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman

[OutOfBoose]

If he wants to tell a story and it requires to make Superman evil - bring it.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Yes. Sadly it seems like a real risk. There was a list of things that going into BvS you'd have said the same about and yet he did them.

You know I actually didn't dismiss the death of Superman angle in BvS before I saw it. I was open minded about using that plot point while many other people said that it was a bad idea and I have to say that I now believe that those people were right and that I was wrong. It was too soon for that plotline. You have to make Superman beloved before doing such a plotline.

In general I'm just kinda annoyed at my extreme optimism for BvS. A lot of people saw this coming or the potential for it to happen and I was too caught up in wishes and dreams to see the possibility, the truth. And I can't lie, I still enjoy Man of Steel, despite it's flaws, but BvS somewhat taints my view of that film now.

BvS has the same flaws that Man of Steel had and many, many, many more flaws. And I can't wave off Superman being sad, mopey and detached as the film just being about a guy who is finding himself. BvS proves that is just how Snyder sees the character. If WB allows there will be no forward momentum on that front.

 

[Corko]

OH, yeah that heartless Snyder doesn't get Superman, Lois and the Superman world


I feel some of you guys were influenced by those "reviews". Could be wrong, but what I wasn't wrong is thank godness I stayed away from spoilers from 1 month and in social media not to mention FAR AWAY from those review sites before seeing the movie for the first time and formed my own opinion with my criteria. You can say I'm wrong, but reading the **** it was posted in those sites may have influenced your judgement, in the amount you let them influence you. Many could still have resisted while reading them but I doubt it. I repeat, my opinion.

As I've said above... this is not the undeniable truth but a simple opinion from my part that you are welcome to disagree.

*Drops mic*

Love it

 

[Corko]

I wouldn't mind an injustice style story, just not this soon. Justice League 2 is set to be out by 2019 I think so they still have plenty of time for new stories after that. Let Superman be a hero in 1 and 2 and then maybe show other possibilities after that, maybe through the Flash going to different universes or something. They could always adapt that video game Injustice Gods amongst us. That way we have both an evil and good Superman

 

[The Guard]

It was too soon for that plotline. You have to make Superman beloved before doing such a plotline.

The world had built him a statue. He seemed pretty beloved until things went South. Which is kind of the point of things having gone South. That he was considered their hero before.

 

[Rapunzel]

Spidey--- I sorta think you and others saying "it was too soon for DoS" are forgetting the Jesus connections. With Supes as Christ figure, it makes perfect sense that he'd die being unloved and misunderstood....you know, like Jesus.

So in that way, the DoS is perfect timing.

It's these parallels that make me hopeful they'll be no evil Supes. Even though I agree, it can't be completely ruled out.

Sigh....I need a break from all this pessimism.

 

[Lily Adler]

And a lot of us on these boards have complained on the usage of Superman as a Christ allegory. It's been a thorn in the sides of many Superman fans since the Donner films and it continues to irk some here to this day. It works for some, but not for others.

 

[Rapunzel]

And a lot of us on these boards have complained on the usage of Superman as a Christ allegory. It's been a thorn in the sides of many Superman fans since the Donner films and it continues to irk some here to this day. It works for some, but not for others.

I'm not talking if it works. I'm just saying you need to remember it's part of the intent before complaining it's too soon.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Yeah I think they should tone down the Superman is Christ stuff.

 

[Lily Adler]

I'm not talking if it works. I'm just saying you need to remember it's part of the intent before complaining it's too soon.

Agreed, but I was merely framing why people complain even after knowing the intent. It doesn't make it less annoying to see them do the DoS storyline as WB have been trying to do that since the 90's with Kevin Smith's Superman Lives. The history behind these complaints adds a more insurmountable amount of anger, especially when attempting it after one film with this Superman. They could have easily hold this story off until a JL film or a third solo film.

 

[MrsKent26]

The world had built him a statue. He seemed pretty beloved until things went South. Which is kind of the point of things having gone South. That he was considered their hero before.

But we didn't see that happening. We were told he was a hero and given a lovely, but brief and dialogue-free, montage. That's not the same as showing him actually start changing the world for the better (thus upsetting capitalists like Lex in the process) and interacting with people in a loving and protective manner. Superman was just draw too thin for his death to make enough impact on anyone other than Lois (which was well done).

As I said before, when he died, I didn't think "Oh no, the world has lost superman." I thought "Oh no, poor Lois has lost her Clark." That's why the ending had an emotional impact on me. They did well with the Clois bits, but the heart-ache should have been two-fold for the audience, with sorrow for Lois and sorrow for the world that would now be without his good works and uplifting influence.

I'm not claiming that everyone experienced things this way, but considering all the complaints about superman in this movie, it seems reasonable to acknowledge that something went awry with the characterization. The movie did no things to make us think he was a hero, but it was just not enough. The concept of superman is such a powerful one that there needs to be enough intimate scenes of superman helping/changing/loving people for the audience to get that fluttery "cheer for the human race" feeling while watching him. It's the same feeling that comes about while looking at images like the one of superman rescuing the suicidal girl. Good luck trying to kill off that type of superman without a tear.

 

[Herolee10]

I at least hope that Snyder is decent enough to give us a satisfying reunion between Lois and Superman. Hell, the most that I could still hope for is for them to have a wedding in this film while every other JL member is still present.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Yeah the Superman and Lois scenes were a lifeline to me while watching BvS so I would love for him to nail their reunion at the very least.

 

[Andreth]

Sorry to be a debbie downer but...

Oh boy, do you really think Injustice is coming?

What I perceived, could be wrong tho. was this...

Superman lost the connection with humanity because of the death of Lois Lane (there) and blames Batman for that.

BUT Flash changed due to traveling through time 'sort of' and now time line is changed (as Flash does) and in that time Lois died, but think as if the sites flipped, Martha being in the Lois place and viceversa now before Batman saved her.

AND IMO Superman dying also CHANGED ALL THAT SCENARIO, the time line has changed, how can you not SEE IT?

Come on guys. Flash messed with the time line and INJUSTICE is not coming if that's what some of you fear

there's no doubt it's from Injustice and that's what Snyder had in mind when he filmed it.
People seem confused by the "She was my world, and you took her away from me" it' obvious Clark blames Bruce for never stopping the Joker
their conversation is even similar to one from the comic where he blames Bruce.

These gifs show a little of that exchange:

Superman to Batman:
“You loved having him around, your constant nemesis.
The two of you played your stupid game and people died
Why didn’t you stop him?!
Why did you let him do this to me, Bruce?!”
“You can’t possibly understand what he took. He stole the life Lois and I would have had together“
​

There's no way this is a coincidence. He re-created those panels.


And I don't understand why some think the flash already changed that timeline. The "Am I too soon? I'm too soon!" means it hasn't happened yet. It happens way after the Death of Superman.

The Injustice story-line should not be allowed to play out in any way shape or form in this Universe. It would be a disastrous plot for this version of Superman whom is already on thin ice with the audience.

ABSOLUTELY this would be the death of the character and his franchise. I know they're doing some really poor choices for Superman but THIS? not this, they must have some common sense, they must! right?

The only way I could see Snyder & Co doing it is if it is like the game, the heroic Superman from our universe fighting the other evil one who wants to rule the world, kill him and bring the Lois from the other universe to his world. The visuals of two supermen fighting would seem appealing.

Regime Superman: I am this world's savior. I protect it.
Superman: That's what's happening out there? Protection?
Regime Superman: Disobedient children will be punished.
Superman: We're not gods, we don't decide who lives and who dies.
Regime Superman: The decision is mine! It became mine when Joker turned me into a weapon of mass destruction!
Superman: I know what you lost.
Regime Superman: And you judge me!?After I've killed you, I'll bring Lois here. When she sees how I perfected this world, she'll-
Superman: She'll be afraid and disgusted!
Regime Superman: She'll be alive!
Superman: Lois' death doesn't justify-
Regime Superman: He stole her from me!


THIS crazy and evil Superman is exactly what I saw in Bruce's vision.

Yes, I am afraid.
And no, I don't think anything remotely hints that the future has changed or that this is just a little nod to the comics & game. They spent too much of the film making Clark acknowledging this fact. Even Jonathan says it. Hell, even Flash says it.

 

[Micromind]

Sorry to be a debbie downer but...




there's no doubt it's from Injustice and that's what Snyder had in mind when he filmed it.
People seem confused by the "She was my world, and you took her away from me" it' obvious Clark blames Bruce for never stopping the Joker
their conversation is even similar to one from the comic where he blames Bruce.

These gifs show a little of that exchange:

Superman to Batman:
“You loved having him around, your constant nemesis.
The two of you played your stupid game and people died
Why didn’t you stop him?!
Why did you let him do this to me, Bruce?!”
“You can’t possibly understand what he took. He stole the life Lois and I would have had together“
​

There's no way this is a coincidence. He re-created those panels.


And I don't understand why some think the flash already changed that timeline. The "Am I too soon? I'm too soon!" means it hasn't happened yet. It happens way after the Death of Superman.





ABSOLUTELY this would be the death of the character and his franchise. I know they're doing some really poor choices for Superman but THIS? not this, they must have some common sense, they must! right?

The only way I could see Snyder & Co doing it is if it is like the game, the heroic Superman from our universe fighting the other evil one who wants to rule the world, kill him and bring the Lois from the other universe to his world. The visuals of two supermen fighting would seem appealing.

Regime Superman: I am this world's savior. I protect it.
Superman: That's what's happening out there? Protection?
Regime Superman: Disobedient children will be punished.
Superman: We're not gods, we don't decide who lives and who dies.
Regime Superman: The decision is mine! It became mine when Joker turned me into a weapon of mass destruction!
Superman: I know what you lost.
Regime Superman: And you judge me!?After I've killed you, I'll bring Lois here. When she sees how I perfected this world, she'll-
Superman: She'll be afraid and disgusted!
Regime Superman: She'll be alive!
Superman: Lois' death doesn't justify-
Regime Superman: He stole her from me!


THIS crazy and evil Superman is exactly what I saw in Bruce's vision.

Yes, I am afraid.
And no, I don't think anything remotely hints that the future has changed or that this is just a little nod to the comics & game. They spent too much of the film making Clark acknowledging this fact. Even Jonathan says it. Hell, even Flash says it.

Good, points, I too thought about the Injustice comics when I saw the Knightmare scene, they have used the elements from The Dark Knight Returns, Doomsday : Death of Superman, Injustice and maybe some from Flashpoint to construct the story for BvS and JL Part-1.

When JL Part-1, casting process began, Amy Adams, Cavill and Affleck were the first actors that were confirmed, which indicates that they are at the core of this story.

As far as Superman is concerned, after he is brought back to life, he will go to other Earth to confront the "evil" Superman, which could be a good way fro the real Superman to show what he stands for and redeem him.

 

[Herolee10]

Unless I heard wrong, I believe Amy confirmed her involvement with JL 1 so there's no way that they could have Lois killed in JL1 for the Injustice Story to take place.

 

[Andreth]

Unless I heard wrong, I believe Amy confirmed her involvement with JL 1 so there's no way that they could have Lois killed in JL1 for the Injustice Story to take place.

She totally did. I watched the videos. She said she'll be in BOTH movies. Seems excited but she only knows a little about JL1

 

[Micromind]

Unless I heard wrong, I believe Amy confirmed her involvement with JL 1 so there's no way that they could have Lois killed in JL1 for the Injustice Story to take place.

I don't get your point ?

Amy Adams is in Justice League Part -1, I stated as much, she will be playing Lois Lane in JL Part -1.

I'm just saying that in the follow up to BvS, she could get killed in JL -1 on an alternate Earth (let's call it Earth-1, where Superman lives but lois is dead, killed by Joker.), and then the Injustice story begins.

In our Earth (let's call it Earth Prime, where the events of BvS took place), Superman has been killed by Doomsday, after Superman is brought back to life, the flash from Earth-1 will come back from Dystopian future (of Earth-1) to ask for help.

The heroes from Earth Prime will then movie to parallel Earth -1 to confront the Evil Superman.

 

[Consona]

Hard times for WB. The story line seems to head towards Injustice Superman, which people will hate, since it's the opposite of bright Superman, and since JL starts shooting in a few weeks, this is probably what we gonna get.

They need the Knightmare stuff to make sense. So to bring the bright Superman in, they would have to rewrite (or this may actually be in the story already, surprisingly enough, so that they did not choose the dark path here ) the story so it's just some kind of warning, like a double warning since we got Knightmare stuff and Flash stuff, and the story is about saving Lois so Superman doesn't go mad.

So the dream/flashforward scenes would make sense and there can be the bright Superman. I think making an evil Superman after him resurrection will make people even more crazy than introspective Superman from BvS.

 

[Herolee10]

I don't get your point ?

Amy Adams is in Justice League Part -1, I stated as much, she will be playing Lois Lane in JL Part -1.

I'm just saying that in the follow up to BvS, she could get killed in JL -1 on an alternate Earth (let's call it Earth-1, where Superman lives but lois is dead, killed by Joker.), and then the Injustice story begins.

In our Earth (let's call it Earth Prime, where the events of BvS took place), Superman has been killed by Doomsday, after Superman is brought back to life, the flash from Earth-1 will come back from Dystopian future (of Earth-1) to ask for help.

The heroes from Earth Prime will then movie to parallel Earth -1 to confront the Evil Superman.

A story like that only works when you have an established JL. Snyder would have to be dumber than what we give him credit for now to go about doing a multi-verse film where the film's main villains are the evil twins of the League's member for the JL's first movie.

 

[Micromind]

A story like that only works when you have an established JL. Snyder would have to be dumber than what we give him credit for now to go about doing a multi-verse film where the film's main villains are the evil twins of the League's member for the JL's first movie.

Yeah right, everyone involved, Snyder, Terrio, DC staff involved and WB execs all are dumb.

 

[Herolee10]

Yeah right, everyone involved, Snyder, Terrio, DC staff involved and WB execs all are dumb.

Well that would definitely explain the reception for BvS

But seriously though; who would think that it would be a good idea to have the first JL film start off with the Multi-Verse concept.

It would make more sense to have Darkseid or some alien threat (a precursor to him) used as their first main villain otherwise all of that teasing in BvS was just wasted time.

 

[antoineflemming]

If he wants to tell a story and it requires to make Superman evil - bring it.

I don't want that. I'd rather see a Flash movie do that, as a kinda Flashpoint meets Injustice story.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I don't want that. I'd rather see a Flash movie do that, as a kinda Flashpoint meets Injustice story.

Given the setup, I don't even believe they will go there. But I won't be flipping cars if they will.

 

[Verick808]

A story like that only works when you have an established JL. Snyder would have to be dumber than what we give him credit for now to go about doing a multi-verse film where the film's main villains are the evil twins of the League's member for the JL's first movie.

Except the whole Justice League didn't go evil in the game or comics. Even if they had this isn't an exact copy. Flash was working under Superman in injustice, here he warns Bruce. I'm not sure this is going to play out in the next film though. Or if it will ever play out.