The Last Jedi How do folks feel about Rian Johnson as a Star Wars storyteller?

[TheVileOne]

The physics and bomb stuff is not a hill I'm ever going to want to die on.

The Jedis using the clone army on the other hand...

 

[Lilbaz]

It was previously stated that with lightspeed, they had to properly navigate as to not hit debris or something, correct? So, if they can crash into an asteroid at light speed and die, then why is a ship different? Honestly, while the ships are traveling at light speed, it is still a force moving at speed. If it hits an object, it is going to do damage. That's just science. I don't see how this is a problem. Further, didn't they say in the movie someone had to stay behind to navigate the ship and Poe's initial role was jumping the ship to lightspeed. Therefore, whatever is going to lightspeed needs a pilot. Random debris won't work, and kamikaze pilots done too much A - waste pilots and B - Waste ships, of which we clearly see they are in short supply of both.

The problem is it opens a whole can of worms. Why didn't they do this to destroy the deathstar etc...?

 

[Spider-Fan]

The problem is it opens a whole can of worms. Why didn't they do this to destroy the deathstar etc...?

The Death Star was not a ship. It was a planet size. It would have withstood it.

 

[TheVileOne]

Death Star is not size of a planet. It's 160 kilometers. FYI, the moon is over 1700 kilometers in diameter. Death Star also had a hyper drive and could move and travel through hyperspace.

The Supremacy was a 60 kilometer ship, and the Raddus was able to cut right through it. Another capital ship arguably could've done some serious damage to the Death Star with that trick.

 

[titansupes]

Considering how the Raddus took out not just a huge Mega Star Destroyer, but the surrounding fleet of Star Destroyers-- and the fact that giant Death Stars and Starkillers can be taken out by a torpedo shot or two from a small fighter to their main reactors-- You'd have to say a capital ship lightspeeding the right through would either cause critical damage or outright blow the thing up.

 

[Batgort]

Can we at least agree that the slow-mo OJ style chase was a horrible plot device?

Let's have a chase - but just literally choose a different mechanic, like I don't know the unanswered spy thing on tracking. Jump to lightspeed, they show up again, skirmish, jump again, repeat - each time getting more and more desperate (remember how they handled that in the walking dead).

If they did literally anything else but slowmo chase, they could have had all the same beats, heck I would even believe the side quest to Monaco because they would just rendevouz at another hop.

This would have also solved why didn't another first order ship to just hyperspace in front of the resistance? In the slow-mo plot, it makes no sense -- we can only reason that there are no more first order ships, and THIS IS IT. This fight is like 4 on 2, and no more ships in either fleet.

 

[fancyarcher]

Maybe he additionally co-writer for his own Star Wars trilogy, if that's still happening, but personally, yes. In particular I quite like what he did with the force.

The problem is not with Rian, the problem is with the production team. There obviously was no overall plan with this new trilogy. Like or hate the prequels but there was an overall story arc there.

I was reading an article about how J.J. likes to introduce elements of mystery in his stories, as part of an artistic way of drawing in the audiences, and not answer those questions. The problem with Rian's story is that he pretty much trashed everything J.J. built up in the mythos and said "**** it" and wrote his own story and ignored everything else. He should not have been allowed to do this.

This is somewhat what happened with Iron Man 3, only the vast majority of audience goers could give a hoot about the mandarin. It's another story when you are dealing with a saga that is so entrenched in our culture.

J.J. actually likes Johnson's ideas though, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if Episode IX continues with much of what Johnson left on, while also continuing with what J.J did. You might say it's a bit of a mess.

Though I do think the idea that Johnson dumped all of J.J.'s idea is a bit ridiculous, but hey it what it is.

 

[Mjölnir]

Death Star is not size of a planet. It's 160 meters. FYI, the moon is over 1000 meters in diameter. Death Star also had a hyper drive and could move and travel through hyperspace.

The Supremacy was a 60 meter ship, and the Raddus was able to cut right through it. Another capital ship arguably could've done some serious damage to the Death Star with that trick.

Kilometers.

The Death Star had a diameter of 160 km, and the diameter of our moon is 3476 km, so the Death Star is minuscule compared to that, let alone a planet.

 

[TheVileOne]

Well either way, the Death Size is not the size of a planet or even Earth's moon. Earth's moon dwarfs it.

So the the trick not working on the Death Star due to sheer size alone, that argument technically doesn't fly.

 

[Batgort]

Though I do think the idea that Johnson dumped all of J.J.'s idea is a bit ridiculous, but hey it what it is.

What idea didn't he dump?

Luke's clean-looking outfit, literally dumped for grimy black outfit after 5 minutes.

Snoke mystery dumped

Rey parents dumped

Snoke got to him, dumped - Luke caused the betrayal with his nephew-killing hunger

Knights of Ren, constipated and didn't show

Anakin's lightsaber calling rey, constipated and didn't show

Complete Kylo's training, constipated and didn't show

Republic? Resistance? First Order? so constipated we are lead to believe there are exactly 4 first order ships, and 2 resistance ships left in a slowmo chase with no reinforcements on either side. The universe literally got WAY smaller.

 

[TheVileOne]

But he wears that outfit again later in the film. I mean, it's an outfit. Hardly a major deal that he changes clothes twice in the film. Not like a major story element was dumped there.

I think you mean Knights of Ren were anticipated. Anticipated yes, but it was never promised they would show up or be explored in the sequel.

As far as Snoke, to me who he is was never that great a mystery. It was fans who turned his identity into a mystery.

I mean they didn't dump Rey's parents. We found out about her parents, but it wasn't a satisfying answer to some.

Batgort, FYI you are using the word "constipated," which means something totally different, when I think you mean anticipated.

As for the Resistance ship, they were trying to get to their allies right? And either there are no allies left willing to take up the call to fight, or they didn't have enough time to assemble to get to Crait. The Republic senate and fleet was apparently wiped out in The Force Awakens.

EDIT:

I blame most of the Knights of Ren anticipation on this article by Making Star Wars:

https://**************.net/2016/05/star-wars-episode-viii-the-knights-of-ren/

Yeah that was way off.

 

[Romannen]

From Twitter:

Rey: I hate you, Kylo! You're a monster!
*Sees Kylo shirtless*
Rey: No, wait. I actually see good in him. He can be turned to the light,
maybe. I wanna go talk to him. In person.

 

[Boom]

My misgivings about TLJ aside (namely the Resistance stuff pre-Crait), I admire the ambition on display and I respect Johnson for being willing to take risks and challenge fan expectations.

I remain both curious and excited about his planned trilogy.

 

[TheVileOne]

My misgivings about TLJ aside (namely the Resistance stuff pre-Crait), I admire the ambition on display and I respect Johnson for being willing to take risks and challenge fan expectations.

I remain both curious and excited about his planned trilogy.

I'm in the same boat. Especially if it's non-prequel material and set after the current trilogy.

 

[Boom]

I'm in the same boat. Especially if it's non-prequel material and set after the current trilogy.

Yeah. I still want to see TLJ a second time because I was admittedly exhausted when I saw it the first time around. So I may warm up to certain things. I plan to share more in-depth thoughts once I've given it another viewing with a fresh set of eyes.

Where it stands now, I think TFA was overall a more consistently enjoyable experience, but I honestly think more highly of TLJ despite its story flaws. If that makes sense.

 

[moviedoors]

Can we at least agree that the slow-mo OJ style chase was a horrible plot device?

Nope. I like it. It's urgency on a long scale, quintessentially sci-fi.

---

I feel great knowing Star Wars is in good hands.

 

[fancyarcher]

What idea didn't he dump?

Luke's clean-looking outfit, literally dumped for grimy black outfit after 5 minutes.

Snoke mystery dumped

Rey parents dumped

Snoke got to him, dumped - Luke caused the betrayal with his nephew-killing hunger

Knights of Ren, constipated and didn't show

Anakin's lightsaber calling rey, constipated and didn't show

Complete Kylo's training, constipated and didn't show

Republic? Resistance? First Order? so constipated we are lead to believe there are exactly 4 first order ships, and 2 resistance ships left in a slowmo chase with no reinforcements on either side. The universe literally got WAY smaller.

The vileone already explained a lot, but I think a lot of this can be cleared up in the next film. Also just because Snoke claimed that Rey's parents were worthless doesn't mean that's the last of them. For all we know, they actually be major characters later on, and maybe will get to learn about them.

And I never felt there was any real mystery about Snoke either. To me he was just a supposedly bigger threatening villain, who as it turned out, was not as powerful as he thought he was.

 

[Greens]

Honest question: what was the point of Poe's prank call? If Hux had said "shoot him" Poe would have been dead and the whole plan would have failed. Poe 100% bet his life and that of the Resistance on the assumption that Hux and everyone around him would be complete morons.

 

[batman1]

this thread will be interesting. i think he hurt his career.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Honest question: what was the point of Poe's prank call? If Hux had said "shoot him" Poe would have been dead and the whole plan would have failed. Poe 100% bet his life and that of the Resistance on the assumption that Hux and everyone around him would be complete morons.

It was intended to be a distraction, but yeah that could have happened. But, how was this any different than other shenanigans that worked in prior Star Wars films? I mean, the Empire got beat on their base by teddy bears with rocks. Shenanigans is part of Star Wars and why it is fun.

 

[Greens]

It was intended to be a distraction, but yeah that could have happened. But, how was this any different than other shenanigans that worked in prior Star Wars films? I mean, the Empire got beat on their base by teddy bears with rocks. Shenanigans is part of Star Wars and why it is fun.

Who says I liked the decision to have Ewoks beat the Empire? You can have shenanigans, but isn't it kind of inconsistent that Leia would okay one reckless plan and demote Poe after another?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Who says I liked the decision to have Ewoks beat the Empire? You can have shenanigans, but isn't it kind of inconsistent that Leia would okay one reckless plan and demote Poe after another?

The difference is Poe's reckless plan to distract Hux risked himself only, but potentially could have saved the entire fleet. The bombing of the Dreadknought not only risked far more soldiers they already were thin on, it resulted in wiping out one of their major fleets. Plan A may only have killed 1 pilot, but plan B killed a whole squad. So, I can see why Leia was more okay with Poe's one plan. Also, she voiced disagreement with his distraction plan, also but likely allowed it due to lack of options.

 

[godisawesome]

I don't think he did bad; I just think he did adequate plotting-wise when he had the potential to be great on TLJ. I do trust his overall writing and directing skills; the man has game, as demonstrated by the acting and cinematography in TLJ. I just think he needs someone who can help him avoid stuff like the space chase or Finn's subplot in his own trilogy, which were already very questionable ideas with very flawed execution.

It might just be that he'll do better in his own trilogy, where he won't be required to address plot points from other films.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

this thread will be interesting. i think he hurt his career.

Johnson will still be making films long after you've graduated high school.

 

[Lilbaz]

Can we at least agree that the slow-mo OJ style chase was a horrible plot device?

Let's have a chase - but just literally choose a different mechanic, like I don't know the unanswered spy thing on tracking. Jump to lightspeed, they show up again, skirmish, jump again, repeat - each time getting more and more desperate (remember how they handled that in the walking dead).

If they did literally anything else but slowmo chase, they could have had all the same beats, heck I would even believe the side quest to Monaco because they would just rendevouz at another hop.

This would have also solved why didn't another first order ship to just hyperspace in front of the resistance? In the slow-mo plot, it makes no sense -- we can only reason that there are no more first order ships, and THIS IS IT. This fight is like 4 on 2, and no more ships in either fleet.

Battlestar Galactica did it well. Jump then you had the timer of 30 minutes or so till the cylons would turn up. Each jump reduced their fuel supplies and they had to come up with a plan. Tic toc.
This didn't seem to have that tense countdown. Going to a casino?

I know why they did it. Lando was meant to be shoehorned in but the actor wasn't up to it.