The Dark Knight Rises How Important is physical portrayals in this movie?

SatEL

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Don’t think a lot needs to be said as we can all see our scrawny Batman and a short stocky Bale. Despite my views on this I would love to hear peoples opinions on what they would have preferred.........oh and for those who say acting is more important than physical portrayals why does there even have to be a trade why not have both?
 
Acting and story is more important than physical portrayal if the film calls for it.

When you focus solely on the physical portrayal, you end up with a piece of crap movie like Batman & Robin where Bane might look just like the comics, but there's no story, tension or climax. Once you get over the initial 'thrill' of seeing him brought to life on the big screen - which takes all of 10 seconds - you quickly realise there's nothing else there to hold your interest and nothing to captivate you.

Of course, the flip side is that you focus only on story/acting and not physicality, so the audience may then find it hard to accept the character on a phsyical level - especially an established comic book character whose look is widely recognised.

To be honest, I've never had a problem with how Nolan has done things. He serves up most of the physicality, but makes enough changes so that the character works in live motion (which is a totally different thing to seeing them in a comic panel), is contemporary, and also allows him to apply his own unique spin on a franchise which has been done before.

Take the Joker. Anyone who looked at a pic of Heath Ledger in full costume and makeup would instantly have known it was the joker. The face paint was there, the purple/green outfit, the greenish hue to his hair. However, he still wasn't totally like earlier comic versions - he didn't look skinny or malnourished, he didn't have short-ish slicked back hair, he didn't have a prominent or hooked nose, and he seemed younger than Joker has normally been portrayed. But it worked perfectly for Nolan's world.

joker-dark-knight-begins-2.jpg


Heath_Ledger_as_the_Joker.JPG


So to me, Nolan got 90% of the look right. But more importantly, he got to the fundamental core of the character - this crazy, sinister, chaotic, wicked and unpredictable personality - and that's what made him a pleasure to watch on screen, not how he looked. Looks are there for recognisability only, they don't carry the film.

The thing is, the Joker was easier to carry off. His physicality is still based on that of an average male. Someone like Bane on the other hand ......... well to start with, he's often been portrayed as massively tall in the comics. And that's before you even get to his build, or to the size he gets to when he injects venom. To get that same kind of look in a film, you'd need a 7ft tall bodybuilder. And there's very, very few of them who I can think of that have garnered any praise for their acting...........!

bane.jpg


297053-23337-bane_super.jpg


So again, Nolan has concentrated more on the acting and character, based on what we've seen so far. Bane is driven, determined, intelligent, ruthless, brutal. Looks-wise, Hardy may lack the height, but he's still fairly muscular and carries himself with a confident swagger. Bane is also often difficult to bring to life because in the comics his face is fully covered. This would never work properly in live motion. The full mask has been replaced by a mouthpiece, but I see this as a neccessity - it's very difficult for an actor to portray a complex version of Bane with their whole face covered, and it would be very difficult for an audience to accept the character or his pain & motivations. Hardy can act well with just his eyes and voice.

I'd say with Bane, Nolan has probably got 60% of the look, but that's probably the best we could ever hope for if Bane was to be the main villain of the story and actually have character and personality. Batman & Robin may have had a more faithful look for Bane, but his role in that film was minimal and he wasn't called on to do much more than a show of strength.

Bane_MOVIE.jpg


If Nolan had done something like this - which is more like the original comic Bane - do you not think it would look totally out of place in his Batman universe?

As for scrawny Batman .................... again, it serves the story. In fairness, Bruce Wayne was pretty built in Batman Begins so they did go for a faithful look.

batman_begins_bruce_wayne.jpg


bale-batman-begins.jpg


However, the game has now moved on 10 years+ ..................... this is a Bruce Wayne who has been run down and stressed to the hilt. It wouldn't make sense that he's still built the way he was in Batman Begins.
 
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this is what Satel wrotte '' h and for those who say acting is more important than physical portrayals why does there even have to be a trade why not have both?''

so to come into this thread and wrtitte how acting is more important than looks makes you........................................................................ ........... .........


a lot directors are able to cast actors that look like the characters with good acting talent.
 
To me a physical embodiment of a character IS acting. How the walk and carry themselves is as important as how they deliver their lines. Look at how Heath Ledger transformed himself physically in order to portray his version of the Joker.
 
If you want a great movie, you have to make compromises. Comics are a different medium from film, so no character will ever look 100% faithful, especially given that they change when drawn by different artists. Some draw Bane to ridiculous proportions. Imo, it looks stupid. It would look stupid on film, and a smaller, quicker, more agile Batman would totally have his way with a Bane that size. What's important is that the essence of a character is there in the writing and the physicality is enough to make it believable that this guy is a serious threat. Hardy is bulky enough for Bane imo, and he's a crazy-skilled fighter. Plus, the prologue has already shown Bane's intelligence and cunning, hence the charactization seems spot on.
 
If you want a great movie, you have to make compromises. Comics are a different medium from film, so no character will ever look 100% faithful, especially given that they change when drawn by different artists. Some draw Bane to ridiculous proportions. Imo, it looks stupid. It would look stupid on film, and a smaller, quicker, more agile Batman would totally have his way with a Bane that size. What's important is that the essence of a character is there in the writing and the physicality is enough to make it believable that this guy is a serious threat. Hardy is bulky enough for Bane imo, and he's a crazy-skilled fighter. Plus, the prologue has already shown Bane's intelligence and cunning, hence the charactization seems spot on.

It also showed us a little snippet of how brutal he can be in terms of the way he fights. I'm merely referring to the throat punch.
 
It also showed us a little snippet of how brutal he can be in terms of the way he fights. I'm merely referring to the throat punch.

Yeah and with the mask he's even more intimidating. He's not the kinda guy I would try and mess with. :wow:

Nolan could've cast a bigger guy, but why sacrifice acting talent for a little more bulk? The same goes for Batman.
 
I think physicality (but not necessarily physical appearance) will be important in this movie, and here's why..
BB focused on EMOTIONS. Wayne's emotional turmoil at the death of his parents, his resolution to not kill the criminal during his training, his fear of bats, his emotions for Rachael,his love of Gotham, the Scarecrow's use of fear toxin, etc.

TDK focused on TACTICS/STRATEGY, and human nature. The Joker's intricate planning of every move he made (too many to list), Bat's use of strategy with having a back up vehicle within the Tumbler, Bat's elaborate plans for the kidnapping/return of an international criminal, his tactics while overseas, his use of technology, etc...

TDKR, if rumors are to be believed, will have a villain that uses
raw physicality and an indifference to pain
to his advantage. If tactics stop working, Bats may be forced to
simply trade blows with Bane until one of them is dead. Bats may have to put himself above the pain his body is feeling to achieve victory.
 
Yeah and with the mask he's even more intimidating. He's not the kinda guy I would try and mess with. :wow:

Nolan could've cast a bigger guy, but why sacrifice acting talent for a little more bulk? The same goes for Batman.

[BLACKOUT]The smaller Bane is compensated for by Bane reportedly not being able to feel pain. You don't have to be a steamroller if you basically fighting a man who feels no pain...[/BLACKOUT]
 
[BLACKOUT]The smaller Bane is compensated for by Bane reportedly not being able to feel pain. You don't have to be a steamroller if you basically fighting a man who feels no pain...[/BLACKOUT]

he can feel pain.


I'm struggling to see the point of this thread
 
It's kinda similar to why characters like Juggernaut, Hulk, and Magneto, although all three obviously have large differences in their depicted strength levels in the comics, their appearance on the pages are always attempted at directly relating their physical potential and threat factor.

I mean, if you look at the physics of it all, Juggernaut and Hulk would still have to be at least ten times their size if one wasn't powered by some magical crystal and the other wasn't "gamma charged". Also with Magneto, despite most often being depicted as a middle-aged or older man, was depicted always as anything short of being bodybuilder sized. They do that for most characters because it's the only real thing you can do to connect that person to the page outside of the words.

In movie terms, in relation to Batman's skill level, Bale's physique is incredibly ideal for a real-life Batman. He's lean, well toned, giving him great flexibility, good core strength and cardio, and explosiveness. In a lot of animated shows and comics, they draw Batman looking so damn huge, it's really hard to beileve he could ever move as fast as he does. Here, I can buy that he can do the things that he does on-screen, especially when you take into account a real-life issue with how much weight he would have to carry around with his armor and all of his gagdets on him. Bale has never had the largest frame in the world, nor does he have that natural fat chin/neck combo that Batman is usually characterized as having, but he's far from "scrawny" like people have been throwing around.

Also, for Bane--Bane's intellect doesn't match up with his physical strength portrayed in comics or animation. It's what makes him fascinating as a character sure, but I think if you're trying to pull that off in a believable and menacing way on-film, you have to start with the person who can pull off that persona and also become a physical threat as well. It didn't gel with me until I saw the prologue to realize just how scary and frightening it is to see a man that's obviously bigger than any normal guy, but at the same time, has the power, desire, and the will to lead large groups of followers and call the shots at the same time with the confidence and mental prowess he possesses. He can carry the film as its main antagonist. In creating that balance in bringing source material onto the screen, I think Bane's size (along with the attributes he gains through his mask) makes a great coupling and I think it works.

...but this is just for these two cases.

When it comes to physical portrayals in general, you HAVE to judge it on case-by-case.
 
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It also showed us a little snippet of how brutal he can be in terms of the way he fights. I'm merely referring to the throat punch.

A punch which you barely/briefly see to really identify, sadly.
 
Bane's primary focus of fighting is probably a high level of Krav Maga mixed in with some pure brute force.

He'll be eager to find the quickest way to break a bone, crush a windpipe, or take an eye out...
 
Bane's primary focus of fighting is probably a high level of Krav Maga mixed in with some pure brute force.

He'll be eager to find the quickest way to break a bone, crush a windpipe, or take an eye out...

Straight from the horse's mouth....

He’s brutal, brutal. He’s expedient delivery of brutality,' Hardy told Empire magazine recently.'He’s a big dude who’s incredibly clinical, in the fact that he has a result-based and orientated fighting style. The result is clear.'

But Hardy didn't stop there when it came to explaining the fictional character's violent persona.

'The style is heavy-handed, heavy-footed, it’s nasty,' he added.

'Anything from small joint manipulation to crushing skulls, crushing rib cages, stamping on shins and knees and necks and collarbones and snapping heads off and tearing his fists through chests, ripping out spinal columns. It’s anything he can get away with.'

 
Straight from the horse's mouth....



I kept expecting this during the Prologue, but only witnessed that brief punch to the throat. Kinda anti-climactic if you ask me.

HOWEVER, i did enjoy Hardy's performance. His voice (albeit hard to hear/comprehend) carried a lot of nuance and authority. He also had a way with his eyes that was no other.

I was expecting something along the line of Hardy's role in Warrior (he is one explosive/scary dude in that movie), but watching him in those 5 minutes of the TDKR prologue, impressed me further than Warrior did.
 

I don't think either of those pictures is at all representative of what Bane was supposed to be in either Vengeance of Bane or Knightfall.

Graham Nolan:
pnid83fd35811744710b_w1000_h1450.jpg


113px-Bane_original.png


185px-1627460-dcul_7_005.jpg


Jim Aparo:
113px-620343-banevs066.jpg


Those are more representative of what Bane is supposed to be IMO. And Nolan and Hardy got it pretty much right on the money. Bane is not a steroid version of the Incredible Hulk like those two pics you posted. So many artists have gotten it wrong, include Arkham Asylum/City. A good portion of Bane's freakish size is due to subcutaneous implants and not muscle development. Which is precisely how he's described by Denny O'Neil in the Knightfall novel. His strength training was all calisthenics, you don't get bodybuilder big on calisthenics. Even if you were on a super steroid... which doesn't actually seem to do that much for his muscle growth except temporarily pumping him up... what it does do is give him a major rush and a drug fix.
 
I don't think either of those pictures is at all representative of what Bane was supposed to be in either Vengeance of Bane or Knightfall.

Graham Nolan:
pnid83fd35811744710b_w1000_h1450.jpg


113px-Bane_original.png


185px-1627460-dcul_7_005.jpg


Jim Aparo:
113px-620343-banevs066.jpg


Those are more representative of what Bane is supposed to be IMO. And Nolan and Hardy got it pretty much right on the money. Bane is not a steroid version of the Incredible Hulk like those two pics you posted. So many artists have gotten it wrong, include Arkham Asylum/City. A good portion of Bane's freakish size is due to subcutaneous implants and not muscle development. Which is precisely how he's described by Denny O'Neil in the Knightfall novel. His strength training was all calisthenics, you don't get bodybuilder big on calisthenics. Even if you were on a super steroid... which doesn't actually seem to do that much for his muscle growth except temporarily pumping him up... what it does do is give him a major rush and a drug fix.

Agreed. I'm not a fan of turning Bane into a giant. It's more impressive to see a 6 ft. Bane break Batman's back than it is a 9 ft. Bane like the Arkham games have.
 
Bane's primary focus of fighting is probably a high level of Krav Maga mixed in with some pure brute force.

He'll be eager to find the quickest way to break a bone, crush a windpipe, or take an eye out...

Eh, I disagree. At first, I thought it was Krav Maga but if you pay attention closely to the City Hall fight, Bane is clearly using Filipino Limb Destruction techniques.
 
the character is indeed far more important. but there is great importance in the iconography of these character's designs as well. and there is no reason that cant be captured on film as well. and i think nolan has slacked there greatly, which is frustrating. the characters and their designs are not mutually exclusive.
 
the character is indeed far more important. but there is great importance in the iconography of these character's designs as well. and there is no reason that cant be captured on film as well. and i think nolan has slacked there greatly, which is frustrating. the characters and their designs are not mutually exclusive.

This is Nolan's interpretation of the Batman Universe.

Meaning, he doesn't have to follow the strict guidelines -- one being the iconography of the characters.

Speaking as huge Ra's al Ghul fan and a massive Bane fan, the costume designs have had little to no negative impact on my perception of the film series. The only design that bugged me was Scarecrow's, and it wasn't substantial enough to deflate the character's portrayal and the film's performance.

I'm a firm believer in the character coming first. The costumes and size/height, not so much. This is an adaptation.
 
This is Nolan's interpretation of the Batman Universe.

Meaning, he doesn't have to follow the strict guidelines -- one being the iconography of the characters.

Speaking as huge Ra's al Ghul fan and a massive Bane fan, the costume designs have had little to no negative impact on my perception of the film series. The only design that bugged me was Scarecrow's, and it wasn't substantial enough to deflate the character's portrayal and the film's performance.

I'm a firm believer in the character coming first. The costumes and size/height, not so much. This is an adaptation.

I agree. We've seen time and again with the castings of Downey as Holmes, Craig as Bond, Maguire as Spiderman, Amy Adams as Lois , Keaton as Batman and so on, that ultimately its about grabbing the character.
 

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