The Dark Knight Rises Why Batman WON'T Die in The Dark Knight Rises

[Blue Sugar]

Oh there will be a pit in this movie for sure, not just the comic-book Lazarus Pit.

 

[TLH]

Sorry, but only people on forums like this or intense fans who follow a lot of the movie's production, etc. are going to conclude from "The Legend Ends" that Bruce Wayne dies.

To most casual viewers, "The Legend Ends" simply signifies that this is the final film in the trilogy. It's letting people know this is the final Batman from this team of filmmakers/actors. THAT'S IT.

Therefore, Batman could still very well die, and it could still very well shock the hell out of MOST audiences. Remember, the casual viewer (who comprise the majority of who will see this) isn't reading forums and considering theories etc. They see the trailer/poster and say "I like Batman, I liked the last movie, let's go" etc.

Plus, Batman dying =/= bad word of mouth and underperforming at the box office. Nolan broke ground with BB and TDK, and to keep that going he needs to break more new ground. Batman dying is a way to do that. It will shock people, keep them talking, and lead to stunning WOM. Remember, it's not always a happy ending that leads to good WOM, QUALITY counts for most of it.

 

[TDKR2012]

I remember a while back that there was an eject area in The Bat toy replica that ejects Batman out of the Bat... Thinking about it now, it HAS to be there for a reason,

How i see it

If Batman DOES go out to sea to submerge the fusion reactor,

He'll "dive" into the water in the Bat, but somehow eject off screen, so the audience won't know he's alive till the very very end. (or it'll be an AHA! moment, when this functionality was described earlier on in the film, but never used) *like the ejecting Bat claw things on Batman's elbows that slash the Joker near the end of TDK.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Hopefully not. Will it be a cultural landmark? The above proves... YES! But, personally I don't think I could ever view the films the same way again from that. At least Superman was resurrected. There won't be a resurrection Batman film if this happens.

 

[Mikelus]

OMG, if Batman dies is the end of the world, I'll hate Nolan for the rest of my life!!

Sorry, but some fans are just ridiculous and immature. I don't mind Batman dying if the film is great, Warner is going to reboot the franchise in a few years anyway.

 

[Nevincer]

Hopefully not. Will it be a cultural landmark? The above proves... YES! But, personally I don't think I could ever view the films the same way again from that. At least Superman was resurrected. There won't be a resurrection Batman film if this happens.

Batman dying in TDKR /=\ Never seeing him on film again. If it's Christian Bale's Batman you're concerned about, you'll never see him again whether he dies in this one or not as it's being rebooted. I don't see the issue.

 

[Ultimatehero]

To me it's a big issue because that means since BATMAN BEGINS we've been seeing a franchise that ends with Batman dying. Seeing BATMAN BEGINS won't be the same after knowing that. Also Batman dying whether through sacrifice or being killed is not a good ending by any account to me. It seems like something just to strike controversy. Does it sound interesting? In a "that is so odd they won't see it coming" sort of way - yes - in the other sense... I just don't see a sense of accomplishment for his character. Also for a film supposedly grounded in reality. We're really supposed to believe he's put Gotham back in order with this? He's the world's greatest detective and I'm unsure why he would go that route when in a split's second he should find another means of solving whatever dilemma he faces.

And how exactly is not liking Batman dying being immature? What is immature is thinking everyone has to agree that Nolan is always 100% right. "Oh my god, he killed Batman - that was so controversial and unexpected - sheer genius!" So yeah, I can hope and keep on hoping he's found a way to make this franchise strike a chord and be important without going into that area because frankly it doesn't seem needed or necessary plus Batman would find a way around a suicide bombing move to save Gotham City.

 

[Greens]

So with Batman dying, whatever came before becomes unwatchable or something? Do you refuse to re-watch the original Star Wars movies because you know Vader and Yoda die at the end?

 

[DKDetective]

Honestly, this thread has really come to bore me. I can understand now why Rag blew a gasket. I haven't seen one good argument for why Batman dying does not make narrative sense in a long time. It has just been fallacious arguments about it seems like an ending written to be controversial and that it can't be the ending because it will upset people. I mean Batman has to die at some point. Bruce is a mortal man after all and that is a large part of the character's appeal.

 

[Nevincer]

Honestly, this thread has really come to bore me. I can understand now why Rag blew a gasket. I haven't seen one good argument for why Batman dying does not make narrative sense in a long time. It has just been fallacious arguments about it seems like an ending written to be controversial and that it can't be the ending because it will upset people. I mean Batman has to die at some point. Bruce is a mortal man after all and that is a large part of the character's appeal.

I was also sad to see this thread get bumped back onto the first page.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Vader and Yoda is the equivalent of a villain or Rachel or even Alfred dying. And yes, if Alfred dies - alright. But, LUKE SKYWALKER dying???? I'd think the exact same thing. And yes, without a doubt, a ending like that would taint and put the films that came before it in a different light. A light that I really doubt they had before BATMAN BEGINS "let's make a movie series where at the end -- Batman dies!" It just sounds like a way to say 'the end' no matter how well it's handled. Sacrifice. Whatever. Same damn thing. Can it be handled artistically? Sure. I don't see anyone arguing anything differently. Doesn't mean it should be done.

Just remembered the PERFECT example from SMALLVILLE "Oh no - that's not "the" Jimmy Olsen it's his older brother who dies to inspire the younger Jimmy Olsen and explains why he will become Superman's kid pal!" Does it work? Yes. Does it make sense? Tragically yes. Does it ruin what came before it? No, not really. Is it needed? Not at all.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

To me it's a big issue because that means since BATMAN BEGINS we've been seeing a franchise that ends with Batman dying. Seeing BATMAN BEGINS won't be the same after knowing that. Also Batman dying whether through sacrifice or being killed is not a good ending by any account to me. It seems like something just to strike controversy. Does it sound interesting? In a "that is so odd they won't see it coming" sort of way - yes - in the other sense... I just don't see a sense of accomplishment for his character. Also for a film supposedly grounded in reality. We're really supposed to believe he's put Gotham back in order with this? He's the world's greatest detective and I'm unsure why he would go that route when in a split's second he should find another means of solving whatever dilemma he faces.

And how exactly is not liking Batman dying being immature? What is immature is thinking everyone has to agree that Nolan is always 100% right. "Oh my god, he killed Batman - that was so controversial and unexpected - sheer genius!" So yeah, I can hope and keep on hoping he's found a way to make this franchise strike a chord and be important without going into that area because frankly it doesn't seem needed or necessary plus Batman would find a way around a suicide bombing move to save Gotham City.

I'll have to disagree with you here. It may not fit your vision for the ending but if Nolan were to kill off Batman then I wouldn't be shocked. Chris has almost spelled it out for us fans what route he would take right from the start if given the opportunity -- Nolan's Batman has been about sacrifice. He has given up his entire life, morals and reputation to ensure that crime and evil does not win... no matter the cost.

It may not be your cup if tea, but this isn't your Bruce Wayne from the comics. That should be obvious now. At the end of this film, Bruce Wayne will most definitely not be Batman anymore. Either he'll be dead, retired or arrested. And I'm loving it that we'll see Bruce come into this arena where he'll confront his mortality, the rest of his life and/or more consequences.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Actually he is Bruce Wayne from the comics depending on what versions you read. Every version of Batman is strong, willing to sacrifice anything, and everything Nolan has made him thus far. He may not investigate - but by damn he is highly intellectual. Gotham City may have changed - to fit the modern day world and society. But, Bruce has largely remained the same. I doubt Batman would get arrested since it seems like by the end the truth about Harvey Dent will be revealed. And by Bane, at that. I really don't see Batman retiring - the film is basically his coming out of retirement and seeing what happens when he does go into retirement = Gotham City sooner or later will fall apart due to some maniac with a plan. I also lack seeing how him dying will add anything. The true sacrifice? Is having this be your life and only life. Living with the isolating consequences of that. Is that a happy thing? No, not really. Not at all. Who wants to be Batman? But, he is. And he can be. And he's the one doing it. He comes out of retirement to die? Just not buying it. But he comes out of retirement to truly sacrifice his life to be Batman? That I can see. Also to those saying someone else will take up his mantle... um, we saw what would happen in TDK.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Actually he is Bruce Wayne from the comics depending on what versions you read. Every version of Batman is strong, willing to sacrifice anything, and everything Nolan has made him thus far. Gotham City may have changed - to fit the modern day world and society. But, Bruce has largely remained the same.

Virtually, Bruce remains Bruce. However, Nolan's Bruce Wayne has been deemed more 'human' than in the comics.

Whether or not Nolan and Goyer have chosen to have Batman sacrifice himself for Gotham, it's evident that they've colored shades of this treatment into the trilogy. In TDKR thus far, Bruce is a man stripped of his identity and life, and finds himself 'frozen' in time.

Nothing is certain yet, but if the TDKRises is following TDKReturns, then it wouldn't difficult to predict what Bruce's psychological state is like before the finale or climax. Similar to the Samurai, Bruce has decided to welcome a 'Grand Death'.

 

[Ultimatehero]

I have no idea what you mean by 'more human'? He is the Bruce I've always seen Bruce as. Bruce has always had allies. He's always stuck by what he wants to do despite what his friends might think - Lucius using the surveillance when he didn't want to. So Bruce is still seen in a anti-social light that he was in the comics if that's what you're referring to? Harvey Dent was his friend in the comics and in Nolan's films. So... more human??? Outside of Harvey and Gordon (as Batman) does he even have a single friend? He's still in solitary pretty much, unless something changed over those 8 years.

Having read TDKReturns I don't really see major similarities in them. Bruce doesn't seem unsteady. He doesn't seem to provoking everyone at every twist and turn that Superman would be called in to help handle him. Even in or near the end battle he still seems to have a sense of being a hero with the heroic attitude. "My mother told me never to get into cars with strange men." "This isn't a car." I personally can not in any way shape or form see that scene as not being part of the final action sequence or damn close to it. Especially when before for a long time he and Salina are at odds ends over a certain pearl necklace. Coincidence that it was Salina who stole them? I highly doubt it. Plus, if he was that Bruce Wayne? He wouldn't make a quip like that - hell, he'd probably just stare pensively. As per the state of Gotham - I just see that as a commentary on today's society, the economic crises, and where things could breakdown to if given Bane's push. So what is so similar with TDKReturns that it foresees Batman dying?

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I also lack seeing how him dying will add anything. The true sacrifice? Is having this be your life and only life. Living with the isolating consequences of that. Is that a happy thing? No, not really. Not at all. Who wants to be Batman? But, he is. And he can be. And he's the one doing it. He comes out of retirement to die? Just not buying it. But he comes out of retirement to truly sacrifice his life to be Batman? That I can see. Also to those saying someone else will take up his mantle... um, we saw what would happen in TDK.

I don't think Bruce will be coming out retirement to seek death, in my honest opinion. I sincerely believe that Bruce has come out of retirement to not only battle Bane but battle his demons yet again. However, perhaps, there'll be a moment where Bruce realizes that defeat is inevitable with Bane. If there's anything we took from the final scene of TDK, it's that Wayne is ready to throw himself in front of a firing squad to save Gotham. We're likely going to receive another scene will Bruce will make a colossal sacrifice in order to safeguard Gotham from total destruction.

 

[DKDetective]

Based on this discussion, I think some people around these parts really need to read "Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader" by Neil Gaiman. I quite like his take on things. His stance is that the reward for being Batman is to be Batman. Bruce may die on the job without a happy ending, but he doesn't want a typical happy ending. He wants to be be Batman until the day he dies. He gets to help people and fight the good fight. That is a good and noble life. What that adds to the story is the idea that Bruce died doing what he loved. That he did not have to suffer the boredom of a forced retirement while his aging body prevented him from helping people, from making a true difference.

 

[DKDetective]

By the way, Earth 2 Batman did come out of retirement just to die because he was needed and it was an epic death.

 

[Ultimatehero]

I really don't see how you can't stop Bane without dying. Sure the guy is strong. But, come on! This is BATMAN we're talking about! He can kill Superman with his bare hands if he so wanted to. And how could he do this? A kryptonite ring. Batman in the films may not be a detective, but he is definitely as smart and calculating. Bane's real threat is his followers and as the film progresses his increasing followers due to the world falling apart. This is what Batman truly needs to face. Here he isn't fighting a villain as much as an idea that the villain puts into the minds of the people. The end is coming so let loose the dogs of war. I really don't see how Batman dying in even a self-sacrificing way could possibly stop Bane's notions. How he defeats him? HAS to be big. Important. Major. Inspiring. Would it be a tear-jerker? Yes. But not for Batman's death. But for the lesson he has to teach Gotham and us about ourselves. That's how he'll defeat Bane. Bane isn't Doomsday - he's a military leader gathering troops. Here, you kill the leader? You'll just make him more powerful most likely. You die on the way? A win for his side. I'm unsure what this triumph can be. But, Nolan? Dude's a sheer intellect and by damn I do think he has something to say with this film - just not want some people expect.

From the look of the trailers more and more it seems like battle lines are being drawn in the city and that it's not just criminals who start following Bane but others who think he is what they need because they have nothing left to believe in. This is what Batman NEEDS to rise above before Gotham tears itself apart.

 

[Brother Jack]

I don't think Bruce will be coming out retirement to seek death, in my honest opinion. I sincerely believe that Bruce has come out of retirement to not only battle Bane but battle his demons yet again. However, perhaps, there'll be a moment where Bruce realizes that defeat is inevitable with Bane. If there's anything we took from the final scene of TDK, it's that Wayne is ready to throw himself in front of a firing squad to save Gotham. We're likely going to receive another scene will Bruce will make a colossal sacrifice in order to safeguard Gotham from total destruction.

I think he'll jump at the chance to get back into the arena, even if he might think that Batman doesn't exist anymore. In that way Bane does him good by getting him out of the rut he's been in, even if that means Batman's own defeat.

 

[AnneFan]

I think he'll jump at the chance to get back into the arena, even if he might think that Batman doesn't exist anymore. In that way Bane does him good by getting him out of the rut he's been in, even if that means Batman's own defeat.

Exactly. Bane will show him the level he needs to be at.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I have no idea what you mean by 'more human'? He is the Bruce I've always seen Bruce as. Bruce has always had allies. He's always stuck by what he wants to do despite what his friends might think - Lucius using the surveillance when he didn't want to. So Bruce is still seen in a anti-social light that he was in the comics if that's what you're referring to? Harvey Dent was his friend in the comics and in Nolan's films. So... more human??? Outside of Harvey and Gordon (as Batman) does he even have a single friend? He's still in solitary pretty much, unless something changed over those 8 years.

Don't take it up with me. Take it up with the hardcore fans and traditionalists (for the most part). They are adamant that Nolan's Bruce Wayne is presented as too human -- he's, at times, irresponsible, greedy, unfocused/short-sighted, obsessively angry, etc.

For me though, I believe it's a mix of both worlds. Nolan's Bruce is unarguably more human than Burton's Bruce and several interpretations from the comics.

Having read TDKReturns I don't really see major similarities in them. Bruce doesn't seem unsteady. He doesn't seem to provoking everyone at every twist and turn that Superman would be called in to help handle him. Even in or near the end battle he still seems to have a sense of being a hero with the heroic attitude. "My mother told me never to get into cars with strange men." "This isn't a car." I personally can not in any way shape or form see that scene as not being part of the final action sequence or damn close to it. Especially when before for a long time he and Salina are at odds ends over a certain pearl necklace. Coincidence that it was Salina who stole them? I highly doubt it. Plus, if he was that Bruce Wayne? He wouldn't make a quip like that - hell, he'd probably just stare pensively. As per the state of Gotham - I just see that as a commentary on today's society, the economic crises, and where things could breakdown to if given Bane's push. So what is so similar with TDKReturns that it foresees Batman dying?

Nolan has confirmed that he incorporated several of Howard Hughes' unstable antics for Bruce Wayne during the first act of TDKR (via the Empire article). For instance, there's a scene where Bruce is firing a crossbow inside Wayne Manor. It doesn't get any clearer than that.

As for the quips, really? That's your counter?

 

[DoomsdayApex]

@Ultimatehero:

You're once again referencing comic achievements that do not take weight with Nolan's Batman. In his universe, Batman has not battled Superman nor Darkseid, and lived. In fact, your explanation makes no sense ("Batman can't die! He's Batman! He's the world's greatest detective!").

 

[Ultimatehero]

I wasn't comparing Nolan's and Burton's. I was comparing Nolan's and the comics.

A guy making quips near the end and one that seems played for the audience's laughter rather than "**** this guys is off his rocker" doesn't show him as losing his mind or make him it seem like a film where it's just thirty minutes before he dies. Tonally that would just seem beyond off. So is it the quip? No. It's the essence of story-telling and how off that would be if that was going to be the ending. "Damn this is fun and then -- oh... what... he's dead?!" Sorry, just not buying it. At the beginning? Yeah Bruce does seem like he needs help. Whatever went down - the people of Gotham are at a loss, the city is falling apart, Gordon needs to wind up in a hospital to tell Bruce that he needs to be Batman again. I can see that darkness in him, but past that point? Not seeing it as much. Rather seeing that come from Gotham.

ALSO that was in describing his INTELLECT not the opponents he's come across. Bane has a demanding military presence, but he doesn't have the same intellectual level that Bruce has. He just needs a good plan and a way to think about how to defeat him. YOU DON'T BEAT BANE IN A FIST FIGHT!

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I'm sorry, but that's a load Ultimatehero. If that's your last line of defense, then it sounds awfully petty. There's no telling how Bruce is handling the situation for you to claim 'the essence of storytelling'. Furthermore, if you paid attention, you would know that Bruce isn't the one made the quip. That was clearly Selina.