How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

[PunyGod]

yea i thought so.
care to explain why that's objectively(if possible) better than this alternative?

It's the very nature of his character. Clark was raised with good old fashioned American values by good old fashioned American farmers. It's like not having Bruce's parents die and him finding another reason to be Batman.

 

[Eros]

yea i thought so.
care to explain why that's objectively(if possible) better than this alternative?

And how the change destroys the character(if you think it does).

I just think supes let Zod win, but clearly not the fight, Zod took superman's innocence and made him into a killer. In the end Zod lost his purpose and his "soul" all he wanted was to kill superman or die in the process. He even says this during the fight, so a man with no purpose gets put in head lock by an equally powerful opponent. Zod saw a chance, superman will either let those people die, or he will kill him to save them and end his now meaningless life. Suicide by cop basically.

 

[Marvin]

I always figured supes new as powerful as he was, He could never afford to cross that line, could you imagine if superman tried to force a tyrannical brand of justice on his enemies, killing bad guys he deems to dangerous......doesn't that make him a god? Killing is easy, finding away to stop is hard.

And when there is no choice, what does superman do?

 

[Eros]

And when there is no choice, what does superman do?

what he has usually done for decades,find another way.

 

[Marvin]

Using superior strength to kill a weaker opponent should not be something that ANYONE finds inspiring...unless you're an MMA fighter training hard to kick someone else's butt. What about people who AREN'T the stronger opponent?

Clark didn't rise to any challenge. He was the strongest person in the universe, and then used that advantage to win. He didn't outsmart the smarter man, he didn't out-strategize the better strategist. He didn't find victory in defeat (he killed a man he had down and in a headlock). He didn't find victory in a no-win situation. He did not have a strict moral code and then stick to it despite everything ad STILL win. He was the strongest guy in the room...and he killed his opponent with neck-breaking strength.

I just don't see what is so inspiring about that.

Sucks you didn't address my other points, I was pretty proud of them
Meh, I suppose you will just bring up the thoughts I disputed in some other rant.

What's this business about superman being stronger now?

1. Did you or did you not see Faora out class superman by way of skill? I'm praying you say yes, otherwise this is going to be a long day.
It's a pretty basic concept of combat that skill often wins out over strength and even speed. Thus you have Faora handing superman his ass.

Spoiler

I assume you caught on to the idea that Superman has never fought a day in his 33 years, and definitely not a full power. And that Faora was not only genetically coded to be a warrior but always has a lifetime of training. NOW BEFORE YOU SAY THAT SUPERMAN IS STRONGER...I should say, please look at the footage and see for yourself. That's what happens in this movie.

Now, it's safe to assume that Zod is just like her if not better(given his rank). So there's that point.

Granted superman get's better along the way. But if you keep ignoring this I will personally think you are doing it on purpose.

Secondly, this idea that superman has been soaking up the sun for far longer so he's by default stronger. Yes, that's how it works in the comics, again that's not exactly how it's shown to work in this movie. Jor el said the sun would charge his cells but that gravity and and atmosphere would play a factor. This explains why Zod and co have the physical powers even without being exposed to the sun. How much physical power you ask? See Faora hand superman his ass without breaking a sweat then take a missle to the face.

Lastly, and this one is a new one.
After superman destroys the world engine he reaches for the sun. Why? Are his powers drained? Is he at full power? Is he weaker than Zod at this point?
Tune in next time.

The only advantage superman has is his experience with non lethal use of his powers. So please unless you care to explain this "killing someone weaker" angle...it's pointless.

A final note, We don't know if zod's dead, Kryptonians have a healing factor under yellow stars, and just like superman in the doomsday fight, it's possible zod's body just went into hibernation mode for better healing. Just a thought.
Exented scenes baby.

btw superman also killed the last movie.

 

[Marvin]

what he has usually done for decades,find another way.

You didn't understand the question I take it.
No choice, what does superman do.

If he's had a choice in the past, then that obviously wasn't no choice.

NO choice what does superman do?

 

[BH/HHH]

Didn't realise Nolan was initially against the ending.

"In the original version of the script, Zod just got zapped into the Phantom Zone," Snyder told Empire. "But [writer] David [S Goyer], Chris and I had long talks about it, and I said that I really feel like we should kill Zod, and that Superman should kill him.

"The 'Why?' of it for me was that if it was truly an origin story, his aversion to killing is unexplained.

"I wanted to create a scenario where Superman, either he's going to see [Metropolis's citizens] chopped in half, or he's gotta do what he's gotta do."

Goyer went on to explain that he had always been in support of the idea, but it had taken longer to convince Nolan, whose original response had been: "There's no way you can do this."

"I came up with this idea of heat vision and these people about to die," Goyer said. "I wrote the scene, gave it to Chris, and he said, 'OK, you've convinced me'."

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/...-christopher-nolan-disagreed-with-ending.html

 

[BH/HHH]

You didn't understand the question I take it.
No choice, what does superman do.

If he's had a choice in the past, then that obviously wasn't no choice.

NO choice what does superman do?

some people relly just don't get it do they?

 

[Eros]

Sucks you didn't address my other points, I was pretty proud of them
Meh, I suppose you will just bring up the thoughts I disputed in some other rant.

What's this business about superman being stronger now?

1. Did you or did you not see Faora out class superman by way of skill? I'm praying you say yes, otherwise this is going to be a long day.
It's a pretty basic concept of combat that skill often wins out over strength and even speed. Thus you have Faora handing superman his ass.

Spoiler

I assume you caught on to the idea that Superman has never fought a day in his 33 years, and definitely not a full power. And that Faora was not only genetically coded to be a warrior but always has a lifetime of training. NOW BEFORE YOU SAY THAT SUPERMAN IS STRONGER...I should say, please look at the footage and see for yourself. That's what happens in this movie.

Now, it's safe to assume that Zod is just like her if not better(given his rank). So there's that point.

Granted superman get's better along the way. But if you keep ignoring this I will personally think you are doing it on purpose.

Secondly, this idea that superman has been soaking up the sun for far longer so he's by default stronger. Yes, that's how it works in the comics, again that's not exactly how it's shown to work in this movie. Jor el said the sun would charge his cells but that gravity and and atmosphere would play a factor. This explains why Zod and co have the physical powers even without being exposed to the sun. How much physical power you ask? See Faora hand superman his ass without breaking a sweat then take a missle to the face.

Lastly, and this one is a new one.
After superman destroys the world engine he reaches for the sun. Why? Are his powers drained? Is he at full power? Is he weaker than Zod at this point?
Tune in next time.

The only advantage superman has is his experience with non lethal use of his powers. So please unless you care to explain this "killing someone weaker" angle...it's pointless.

A final note, We don't know if zod's dead, Kryptonians have a healing factor under yellow stars, and just like superman in the doomsday fight, it's possible zod's body just went into hibernation mode for better healing. Just a thought.
Exented scenes baby.

btw superman also killed the last movie.

You also forgot superman could fly, use heat vision,honed senses, and breathe in earths atmosphere. Zod was the only soldier to master all his powers.

 

[Eros]

You didn't understand the question I take it.
No choice, what does superman do.

If he's had a choice in the past, then that obviously wasn't no choice.

NO choice what does superman do?

MOS superman will snap his opponents neck with no choice, that we know. So yes this superman will terminate his enemies if he has to.

 

[Eros]

Didn't realise Nolan was initially against the ending.



http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/...-christopher-nolan-disagreed-with-ending.html

Shocked then the idea of superman killing would be troublesome?

 

[Marvin]

It's the very nature of his character. Clark was raised with good old fashioned American values by good old fashioned American farmers. It's like not having Bruce's parents die and him finding another reason to be Batman.

Good old fashioned values made him plenty in this movie, besides saving people for years out of the goodness of his good old fashioned american heart, the first thing he did in costume was sacrifice his life for the planet when asked to surrender(lois came too the doll). He didn't plenty more than that too.

But to my point, there are plenty of good men and women raised with old fashioned american values by old fashioned american parents. Lots of these people join the armed forces or law enforcement and kill "bad guys". Abe lincoln in one of these guys born and raised in Kentucky and he sanctioned a war for the greater good.
Cap seemingly had good parents and he's very much held up as a good moral man(ergo why he was selected) and he's a stone cold killer.
All roads lead to the same thing. Good old American values aren't the be all end all of turning someone against killing.

What's more the Superman source material and the movies seemingly don't agree either.

Your premise if fine for what it is, but to sit there and proclaim that's the way it has to be or it sucks/fail/makes no sense...

I'm not convinced(and neither were the producers on this film). Maybe they thought it's time we actually addressed this matter in a non silver age way. Hopefully they do the same with the secret identity as well.

 

[Marvin]

You also forgot superman could fly, use heat vision,honed senses, and breathe in earths atmosphere. Zod was the only soldier to master all his powers.

Fortunately for me we are addressing the Zod fight.

 

[Marvin]

MOS superman will snap his opponents neck with no choice, that we know. So yes this superman will terminate his enemies if he has to.

I wasn't asking about this superman.
I wasn't even asking about the donner superman(we already know what he will do to defenseless enemies in two separate movies, arguably 3).
I wasn't asking about the comic books either seeing as we have seen him kill in seemingly 3 separate stories(though I need to revisit one to know for sure).

I was asking, what do you think Superman, the one in your mind's eye would do.
Yes or no, or dance around the answer some more.

 

[BatSpider]

Im perfectly fine with it. Its Zacks fresh new take one the character.

Plus, unlike other Superman films, We actually watched him learning about himself as in regards to flying and the powers of others.

What he did is something he regrets and will learn from later in ZACKS story.

 

[Eros]

Fortunately for me we are addressing the Zod fight.

Yea zod was just as strong as supes,doesn't matter if he wasnt or was.

 

[BH/HHH]

Shocked then the idea of superman killing would be troublesome?

You're shocked? It was already gonna be a big deal cause Superman not killing is something that Superman fans feel strongly about. I was very happy with it the way it was done, its not an execution, he doesn't decide to kill Zod when he's fighting him he just really doesn't have a choice if he let's Zod kill that family he'd have to live with that and for me that would be far worse than killing Zod.

I can see why Nolan wasn't for it at first just because you have to do it the right way and for me they did.

 

[Marvin]

Im perfectly fine with it. Its Zacks fresh new take one the character.

Plus, unlike other Superman films, We actually watched him learning about himself as in regards to flying and the powers of others.

What he did is something he regrets and will learn from later in ZACKS story.

...and in the comic books.

 

[Eros]

I wasn't asking about this superman.
I wasn't even asking about the donner superman(we already know what he will do to defenseless enemies in two separate movies, arguably 3).
I wasn't asking about the comic books either seeing as we have seen him kill in seemingly 3 separate stories(though I need to revisit one to know for sure).

I was asking, what do you think Superman, the one in your mind's eye would do.
Yes or no, or dance around the answer some more.

I already answered the question, not snap zods neck, not bring himself down to that level.

 

[Bruce Malone]

To be fair i don't think him killing zod "hardened" him or made him more likely to kill afterwards. You could tell by the look on his face that this was something he wouldn't want to have to do again.

 

[Eros]

You're shocked? It was already gonna be a big deal cause Superman not killing is something that Superman fans feel strongly about. I was very happy with it the way it was done, its not an execution, he doesn't decide to kill Zod when he's fighting him he just really doesn't have a choice if he let's Zod kill that family he'd have to live with that and for me that would be far worse than killing Zod.

I can see why Nolan wasn't for it at first just because you have to do it the right way and for me they did.

I agree with you , Just some people think its weird superman has a no kill code.

 

[Marvin]

I already answered the question, not snap zods neck, not bring himself down to that level.

So the planet instead...
thx for your honesty.

 

[Eros]

To be fair i don't think him killing zod "hardened" him or made him more likely to kill afterwards. You could tell by the look on his face that this was something he wouldn't want to have to do again.

Thats the thing, there will come a time where he has no choice but to Kill again. Will he or will let a family die? once you open up the idea of superman killing, if he doesn't do it next time he is in situation like that.....he looks stupid...its a paradox.

 

[Eros]

So the planet instead...
thx for your honesty.

no problem, Cause that family was the entire planet?

 

[BH/HHH]

I agree with you , Just some people think its weird superman has a no kill code.

Well he does have a code against killing but there's a few things to remember in this film he's not the established Superman yet its possible killing Zod is what makes him really decide he won't kill again but in the comics most notably from the Byrne run he has killed several times when he's had to. The best I can think of is Doomsday when he didn't have a choice like in Man of Steel. But he did kill the pocket dimension versions of Zod, Zaora (yep that's how they spelt her name) and Jax Ur. But they had just destroyed an entire world and were threatening to do the same with his world. Now that one was contreversial because it was an execution BUT they dealt with it following it and that's when Superman made the code against killing.

As for pre Byrne I'm pretty sure he used to just throw criminals off buildings etc and punch them into oblivion but it was the comics code authority which brought in the no killing aspect.