How the vulture would have played into the story

[Toxin72]

sam raimi thought the venom script was better and more memorable than the vulture script. The sad thing is once sam finished the script he had no choice but to cut close to 30 pages before filming started due to budget constraints (yes it would have cost over 300 million for the original venom script.) Sam still thought he had an amazing film even after the cuts from the script but then he had to cut scenes from the movie because they didnt want the movie to be overly long. Thats why we had sandman and eddie brock stuff cut from the film. Im pretty sure that we got just about every venom scene though there could be a couple that got cut.

 

[UltimateJustin]

Yeah. Too bad that the fans think they should have an influence on the Spidey movies.

True, I've always said the fans dont know what they want. The internet was a mistake.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

I think Raimi should have stuck with Vulture only because this villain seems to always have intended to be a "throw in" villain and not a main villain. Therefore, I would much rather have had a wasted(not so much screentime) Toomes/Vulture than a wasted Brock/Venom.

 

[drmick]

sam raimi thought the venom script was better and more memorable than the vulture script. The sad thing is once sam finished the script he had no choice but to cut close to 30 pages before filming started due to budget constraints (yes it would have cost over 300 million for the original venom script.) Sam still thought he had an amazing film even after the cuts from the script but then he had to cut scenes from the movie because they didnt want the movie to be overly long. Thats why we had sandman and eddie brock stuff cut from the film. Im pretty sure that we got just about every venom scene though there could be a couple that got cut.

Yeah, but didn't Sony then dig deeper into their pockets to increase the budget when the long script came through?

Ben Kingsley is an AMAZING actor. Whatever which way they would have wrote or portrayed the Vulture, he would have excelled in the role.

(British actors are the best).

 

[Spiderine]

I think Raimi should have stuck with Vulture only because this villain seems to always have intended to be a "throw in" villain and not a main villain. Therefore, I would much rather have had a wasted(not so much screentime) Toomes/Vulture than a wasted Brock/Venom.

Agree

Yeah, but didn't Sony then dig deeper into their pockets to increase the budget when the long script came through?

Ben Kingsley is an AMAZING actor. Whatever which way they would have wrote or portrayed the Vulture, he would have excelled in the role.

(British actors are the best).

And agree

 

[Venom'sDad]

It's funny how everyone wish Vulture would have been the second villain instead of Venom, when everyone laughed and bark at Villain 2 or 3 years ago when he said that Vulture was one of the villains. If I remember correctly he was also the first to say that Avi and Sam had a falling out concerning Venom being in the film and Sam not having director's autonomy.

Sam deserve some of the blame for not holding his ground with Avi and do it his way. But since he decided to coward up, he should have put his heart into the Eddie Brock/Venom character and not give us this BS.

That's my honest opinion.

 

[Visceral]

could you scan the venom sketches for me?

 

[Toxin72]

But you got it wrong. Avi didnt force anything on anyone. What happened was once the theme of the movie was figured out and once the original vulture script was finished the whole team including sam started to notice that it would be hard find a way to connect the vulture to peter parker and because of this venom was brought up due to the fact that it would bring eddie into the story and it would be easy to connect him to peter. In the end it was the whole team that thought the venom story was better so I wish people stop thinking venom was forced in by avi arad.

 

[drmick]

But you got it wrong. Avi didnt force anything on anyone. What happened was once the theme of the movie was figured out and once the original vulture script was finished the whole team including sam started to notice that it would be hard find a way to connect the vulture to peter parker and because of this venom was brought up due to the fact that it would bring eddie into the story and it would be easy to connect him to peter. In the end it was the whole team that thought the venom story was better so I wish people stop thinking venom was forced in by avi arad.

True.

They apparently had difficulting connecting Toomes to Peter in terms of plot.

Apparently they couldn't change the comics origin where Flint Marko killed Uncle Ben to have had Toomes do it instead........

 

[Robotchicken]

Vulture would have rocked, but Venom was so great!

Am I the only one that thinks they should have never went with the Sandman?

meh, glad they went with Venom






and hopefully at worlds end was at pirates movies end, because lets face it....potc2 and 3 werent that good

 

[chaseter]

But you got it wrong. Avi didnt force anything on anyone. What happened was once the theme of the movie was figured out and once the original vulture script was finished the whole team including sam started to notice that it would be hard find a way to connect the vulture to peter parker and because of this venom was brought up due to the fact that it would bring eddie into the story and it would be easy to connect him to peter. In the end it was the whole team that thought the venom story was better so I wish people stop thinking venom was forced in by avi arad.

Hell, they could have made Toomes the real killer of Uncle Ben! DA DA DA DUNNNNNNN...just like they did with Sandman.

 

[ronzpeed]

Venom was done poorly because Raimi didn't like him, period. The movie would've been better if Raimi were intrested in Venom.

 

[Toxin72]

ronzpeed all I'll say is if you really believe that then you have been terribly misinformed. All you have to do is look through most of my posts to find out why venom was in the movie. All my info came from a book made by grant curtis (a producer of the movie) called the spider-man chronicles: the art of spider-man 3.

 

[The Joker]

ronzpeed all I'll say is if you really believe that then you have been terribly misinformed.

No he's not. Raimi never wanted Venom in the movie. And he didn't care for the character at all in the comics. The more he read on Venom, the more he disliked him.

It was only the treatment in the script that he liked. Probably because Brock's screen time was so limited and under developed to the point where he felt like an after thought.

 

[chaseter]

Venom was done poorly because Raimi didn't like him, period. The movie would've been better if Raimi were intrested in Venom.

That ultimately, is the truth.

 

[Toxin72]

Well you guys can think what you want but I got all my facts from a book about the process of making the movie. Sam Raimi didnt know much about the character when he was suggested nor did most of the crew so they all read up on him. Sam grew a level of respect for venom after reading about him but thought he lacked the level of humanity of some other spidey villains. When alvin sargent wrote the venom script sam really started to like venom. Then after that sam and ivan raimi started making revisions on the venom script. So sam didnt have any real problems with venom he wasnt forced to use him so doc ock whether you want to believe it or not sam in the end did want venom in the movie. I got my facts from a book where did you get your info about him not wanting venom in spidey 3?

 

[Infinity9999x]

Vulture doesn't sound too bad, but I have one big problem with the whole Vulture aspect,

Namely, the whole Sandman revenge thing. Without the suit, it just doesn't fit Peter Parker. No matter how angry he gets, Peter doesn't kill. Now, with an outside force affecting him, that's a whole different matter, but without it, Peter trying to kill Sandman just doesn't fly.

 

[ronzpeed]

Well you guys can think what you want but I got all my facts from a book about the process of making the movie. Sam Raimi didnt know much about the character when he was suggested nor did most of the crew so they all read up on him. Sam grew a level of respect for venom after reading about him but thought he lacked the level of humanity of some other spidey villains. When alvin sargent wrote the venom script sam really started to like venom. Then after that sam and ivan raimi started making revisions on the venom script. So sam didnt have any real problems with venom he wasnt forced to use him so doc ock whether you want to believe it or not sam in the end did want venom in the movie. I got my facts from a book where did you get your info about him not wanting venom in spidey 3?

Ok, then how come he gave Venom the worst possible death? He made damn sure that Venom will NEVER return.

 

[Toxin72]

First of all you saying he had the worst possible death is your opinion. Second if they really wanted to bring venom back they would no matter what or they would have at least suggested changing the scene where he gets defeated. Before venom was even put in it was set that the last villain was going to die because of the hatred in his heart so everyone that was in the crew including avi arad knew venom would die at the end and they were fine with it because venom in the movie was just as great as venom was in his original appearance in ASM 300.

 

[DACrowe]

I'd just like to point out that it is ridiculous that Sam Raimi sat down and hated the character of Veno mso much that he went out of his way to make him an afterthought in the script and think to himself "Mwhahahahaha! Those fanboys will pay for getting involved through the producers with my movie! I hate you Venom, I hate you!!!! Bahhhhhh!"

No, Raimi took a character he didn't like and saw a very poor origin for (the latter part I agree on, that Eddie Brock's original motivation sucked in the comics and that is why the movie turned more to TAS than the comics) and created something he liked. A dopplenganger/mirror image of Peter Parker.

He reportedly considered making Venom be a cliffhanger for Part 4 but claimed that Avi Arad "and" he decided that it'd be unfair to the fans of Venom to not give them him in this movie.

So Avi pushed to get his marketing blitz in, even though Raimi logically understood the character couldn't enter until the third act. He attempted to make him work and I personally find his iteration on the character better than he has been in the comics the last 15 years of his near 20 year existence.

But Raimi did not intentionally go in trying to make his movie not work and destroy Venom. He changed the character until he worked in his vision. It is just that even then it had to be rushed as Avi needed the marketing money for 3 and not 4.

If you think it was purposefully meant to be the destruction of the character. You are an internet fanboy who is a little too jaded.

Oh well.

 

[DACrowe]

P.S.

He killed Venom because

1) Sony said no cliffhangers and dangling plot threads. They want it as a nice wraped up trilogy with a pretty bow on it. So if Tobey, Sam and Kirsten don't come back they can cut from these three movies cleanly. All though I personally think marriage is still dnagling, but whatever.

2) It was important thematically that Brock be beyond redemption. Harry finds peacea nd redemption and by learning from Harry's example Peter has to forgive Flint Marko or he'll end up like the Venom character. A reflection of himself, twisted by his slefish need and consumption for vengence. His death was Peter destroying the darkness in himself. It needed to happen.

3) Topher Grace insisted upon it.

Again, quit thinking "He hates the character and that's why he's dead! WHAAAA!"

Seriously.

 

[Sloth7d]

Until it was released, and then you wished they had gone with an originally planned Venom storyline.

What he said. Vulture would have made this movie suck.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

From watching the movie, it just felt like Raimi's heart wasn't into Venom. Brock's lack of screentime and underdeveloped character didn't help. I'm disappointed he went with Venom as I would rather have had a wasted Vulture than a wasted Venom.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

2) It was important thematically that Brock be beyond redemption. Harry finds peacea nd redemption and by learning from Harry's example Peter has to forgive Flint Marko or he'll end up like the Venom character. A reflection of himself, twisted by his slefish need and consumption for vengence. His death was Peter destroying the darkness in himself. It needed to happen.

What was the example that Harry set that Peter ended up learning from? Peter never killed Norman, there was nothing to learn from that. Harry was the hard headed one who refused to listen to and believe Pete. Pete never did anything wrong.

3) Topher Grace insisted upon it.

So what Topher wants, Topher gets? Who the H E DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS is Topher to be insisting on anything?!

 

[3dman27]

What was the example that Harry set that Peter ended up learning from? Peter never killed Norman, there was nothing to learn from that. Harry was the hard headed one who refused to listen to and believe Pete. Pete never did anything wrong.



So what Topher wants, Topher gets? Who the H E DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS is Topher to be insisting on anything?!

good question