Why Did Sam Raimi Go Along w/ the Venom Plan?

[Ace of Knaves]

Well to be fair the first Harry vs Pete fight was pretty immense. I dunno how even the strongest SM3 haters can deny that.

And Bruce Campbells cameo was great.

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

So we're here to agree that Spider-Man 3 sucked?

obvious troll is obvious

and wait for it...wait for it...

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

Well to be fair the first Harry vs Pete fight was pretty immense. I dunno how even the strongest SM3 haters can deny that.

And Bruce Campbells cameo was great.

 

[Dragon]

I don't see the entertainment quality in that movie as others have seen.

Am I watching a different film or what?

Pretty much all of the action scenes were good. The last fight was a little disappointing simply because they wanted Harry to both appear needed and die.

Tobey, Franco and Topher were good in their roles. Bryce was good. Rosemary Harris was effective in the second two scenes. The villains looked good. It had a number of good moments.

 

[drmick]

There's no doubt that each individual scene or segment is very well produced and directed.

From an overall plot point of view, it's a disaster. If we absolve raimi of all responsiblity of the actual plot, then the only thing he can be blamed for is the inappropriate breaks in the final battle with his own daughter and the inclusion of the English news reporter (which may have been in the script).

Except Raimi can't be absolved of the plot, he was there at all the meetings! There's a good photo in the making of book, showing them all meet up to discuss the plot. Too many cooks!

 

[Dragon]

I wouldn't absolve Raimi of anything. He's made major screw-ups in every film. His approach to Spidey misses the mark on much of what made Spidey in the comics special. But that doesn't change the fact that each Spidey film has been in the overall, entertaining.

 

[Dragon]

Ok, fair enough, i didn't mind the dialouge.

Fair enough.

Ok, but he's just starting out, he's trying to do the best he can, and her getting taken hostage was shocking to him. Aunt May is joined to him through blood, he can't do anything about that, but he doesn't feel ggod about ringing anyone else into his orbit just in case, after that experience with Osborne.

The thing is, there's no basis for this in the source material. Even after Gwen was killed, Peter still pursued relationships. Peter is human. Like everyone he needs love. And considering his life, maybe moreso. Moreover, he has a better chance of protecting his loved ones by keeping them in close proximity to him than in keeping them at a distance.

Yeah, you are right, I was thinking more of what she was like before she and PP started going out.
She would flirt with Pete when she was going out with Harry, she had her mind on the stardom and having fun at the expense of everything else.

Yeah. There's nothing wrong with a character being flawed. But they have to own up to their flaws. Movie MJ never does.

Yeah, but again i would argue she's maybe just at the point where SM is totally taking up every aspect of their lives and she's getting a little blase or tired of it.

But she expects Peter not to be blase about her career, right? And Peter isn't. He remains excited about her career and supports her. She needs to do the same for him. Spider-Man isn't just a career. it's who Peter is, and it's important. If MJ can't deal with it, then she shouldn't be with him. Or moreover, she doesn't deserve to be with him.

When she wants to talk about the bad reviews and how she's feeling, he just immediately plouges into a speech about being spider-man, relating it to that.

Well, if you can argue that MJ is getting tired of Spidey, then maybe Peter is getting tired of her whining about critics. But at least he's trying to encourage her to toughen up and deal with it. Being an actor is facing rejection. If she's too thin-skinned to handle it, she belongs in waitressing.

No question Peter is full of himself. But he realizes the error of his ways. MJ doesn't. And anyways, when she demands that Peter listen to her, he's willing to. Again, she chooses not to speak.

But she gets the sense he is going to do something stupid, and he is acting stupid and selfish as he is set on vengeance. He ignores that poilce report about an old guy collapsed in the street.

What reason does she have to think he'll do something stupid? Peter has shown her time and again that he's a clever, resourceful guy. He did it when he saved her and the tram car full of kids. He did it when he dealt with Ock and got him to stop his experiment from destroying the city. He did it everytime he saved her life. And I'm sure she's read about his other exploits like stopping the train from crashing.

Peter is angry because the man who killed Uncle been has been allowed to escape. Who wouldn't be? But that doesn't mean he's going to do something "stupid". And, when you love someone, you deal with them a certain way. Rather than accusing him and berating him, she should've taken his hand, kissed him and said something like: "I know you're mad- and you have every right to be- but just calm down". And when he rejected her "help", she should have told him she wasn't leaving. That she's in this with him. What happens to him, happens to her.


As for the old man- there's nothing Peter could have done for him. He's not a doctor, and obviously the people on the scene called an ambulance. While yeah, the point was that Peter was obsessed with Marko, he still knows he can't be everywhere, and that he has to choose the incidents that Spidey is uniquely equipped to handle.

When she says 'like with that other guy..', she's just meaning that the guy died, she doesn't necesarily mean to imply Pete murdered him imo, she just means that you don't want this new guy to end up dead if you go lashing out at him.

That shouldn't have been her concern. Afterall, a murderer is on the loose and could kill again. Carridine died because of his stupidity (And violent nature) not Peter's. But her concern should have been comforting the man she loves, which is clearly what she'd expect from Peter.

Yeah, and ok, she should've stayed to make sure he didn't do anything stupid if she felt that way. That is true.

It isn't a point of that. The point is easing his pain. That MJ's first thought is being critical of Peter rather than loving and supporting him reflects what a jerk she is.

Ok, it hasn't been shown in the flicks, but i imagine from the way she acted at the end of SM2 they must've had some good times where she's doted on him. it's just that SM3 opens with her big night, and so she's basking a bit.
And i wouldn't count any of that stuff from before she knew he was SM.

to be continued..

So again, Peter has always doted on her, she's never seen doting on him- thus we have why the relationship seems out of whack. It needs to be on screen, not assumed. We see both Peter and MJ's struggles. But we also see that Peter takes solice in MJ's love. MJ is just bitter and resentful.

 

[mothy]

Well to be fair the first Harry vs Pete fight was pretty immense. I dunno how even the strongest SM3 haters can deny that.

i agree. excellently done and it truly honours spider-man. i like the black suit peter/harry fight at the mansion better, though. it's more personal, there's more feeling and the fight begins on equal terms.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I just loved that first fight. The music was perfect, the shots were perfect, and the action was brutal.

Harry dragging Pete along those walls and tossing him through that window. But the best bit for me is when Pete finally grabs the ring, lands on that roof and it goes silent for a second. Then all of a sudden you hear the glider boost up, Pete looks up like "Oh crap", the score swells then Harry swoops down. Just epic.

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

I just loved that first fight. The music was perfect, the shots were perfect, and the action was brutal.

Harry dragging Pete along those walls and tossing him through that window. But the best bit for me is when Pete finally grabs the ring, lands on that roof and it goes silent for a second. Then all of a sudden you hear the glider boost up, Pete looks up like "Oh crap", the score swells then Harry swoops down. Just epic.

christopher young FTW

i want that song (*cough..legitly, that is) ...

 

[mothy]

christopher young FTW

i'd rather have elfman back, but that's not going to happen. i am satisfied with young. he did a great job, especially for sandman's transformation sequence. good thing he retained the spider-man theme, but that was pretty much a given due to continuity. it's the perfect musical snapshot of the character and to drop it would be madness.

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

i'd rather have elfman back, but that's not going to happen. i am satisfied with young. he did a great job, especially for sandman's transformation sequence. good thing he retained the spider-man theme, but that was pretty much a given due to continuity. it's the perfect musical snapshot of the character and to drop it would be madness.

*cough* batman forever *cough

although goldenthal's batman theme was pretty awesome too


anyways, I agree. all the tracked in music from SM1/SM2 shouldnt have been there (save for the main themes). I want the unused themes for Aunt May, MJ, and the new love theme.

 

[mothy]

*cough* batman forever *cough

even though it minorly references and directly follows batman returns, batman forever is a more than soft reboot in terms of what tone they were going for. they clearly shifted the direction of the franchise in reaction to the perceived darkness of batman returns. sadly. new lead actor, director, etc. music included. they went for a more light hearted, cartoony sound.

there was no need to change the sound for spider-man 3. gladly they didn't. it is a true follow up in the same universe. the series retained the same tone, creative vision and cast.

 

[david icke]

What reason does she have to think he'll do something stupid? Peter has shown her time and again that he's a clever, resourceful guy. He did it when he saved her and the tram car full of kids. He did it when he dealt with Ock and got him to stop his experiment from destroying the city. He did it everytime he saved her life. And I'm sure she's read about his other exploits like stopping the train from crashing.

Peter is angry because the man who killed Uncle been has been allowed to escape. Who wouldn't be? But that doesn't mean he's going to do something "stupid". And, when you love someone, you deal with them a certain way. Rather than accusing him and berating him, she should've taken his hand, kissed him and said something like: "I know you're mad- and you have every right to be- but just calm down". And when he rejected her "help", she should have told him she wasn't leaving. That she's in this with him. What happens to him, happens to her.

No, her instincts where right.
and why should she think he might do something stupid? Because teh last guy he thought who killed Ben died. Norman Osborne, the guy who attacked aunt May and tried to kill MJ died. Doc Ock presumably died.
All people who have threatened Peter's family.
I doubt she thinks he's a murderer, but she might , deep down, think he cuts loose with his powers in anger if he's emotionally involved.
What would she think if she witnessed what happened with Carradine? would she think , 'Peter could've webbed him and saved him.'
Peter also says he had a gun on him, he didn't at that point. He's skirting the truth.
MJ is right , he is acting stupid, and she has not been present at his escapades to know exactly if he has always been in control.

As for the old man- there's nothing Peter could have done for him. He's not a doctor, and obviously the people on the scene called an ambulance. While yeah, the point was that Peter was obsessed with Marko, he still knows he can't be everywhere, and that he has to choose the incidents that Spidey is uniquely equipped to handle.

that's not what his expression and reaction to it says. It says, 'jeez, big deal, where's the sandman report?' He's dead set om vengeance, and doesn't care aboiut anything else.

That shouldn't have been her concern. Afterall, a murderer is on the loose and could kill again. Carridine died because of his stupidity (And violent nature) not Peter's. But her concern should have been comforting the man she loves, which is clearly what she'd expect from Peter.

she doesn't know that for sure, and maybe Peter doesn't either if he's being honest with himself, given his slightly different version of events he gives.

Sorry for delay in replies, i typed up more to your earlier posts, but lost them all, and it was fdoing my nut in, losing posts. My first long response to you was my 3rd or 4th attempt.
I find this interesting so will be back later to reply to other points you raised.

 

[The Joker]

No, her instincts where right.
and why should she think he might do something stupid? Because teh last guy he thought who killed Ben died. Norman Osborne, the guy who attacked aunt May and tried to kill MJ died. Doc Ock presumably died.
All people who have threatened Peter's family.
I doubt she thinks he's a murderer, but she might , deep down, think he cuts loose with his powers in anger if he's emotionally involved.

I don't buy that. MJ was standing right there when Ock willingly got up and went to destroy his reactor. She knows Peter played no part in his death.

As for Norman's death, does MJ even know he was the Green Goblin? It's never ever specified, or even hinted at. So how would she know Norman threatened Peter's loved ones? Harry never even knew until the end of SM-2. She didn't even know that Harry knew Peter's secret, as she was utterly confused as to why they were not getting along. "What's with you guys anyway?".

And when Harry got amnesia, she casually remarked that they seem to be getting along great now.

 

[david icke]

I don't buy that. MJ was standing right there when Ock willingly got up and went to destroy his reactor. She knows Peter played no part in his death.

As for Norman's death, does MJ even know he was the Green Goblin? It's never ever specified, or even hinted at. So how would she know Norman threatened Peter's loved ones? Harry never even knew until the end of SM-2. She didn't even know that Harry knew Peter's secret, as she was utterly confused as to why they were not getting along. "What's with you guys anyway?".

And when Harry got amnesia, she casually remarked that they seem to be getting along great now.

Ok forget about the Goblin and Ock. Her having concern with Peter's mental state and whether he was going after Sandman for the right reasons was justified.
And the fact that the other guy whom he thought killed Ben died in the altercation is reason enough for her to be worried, even if she doesnt think he murdered him.
and as i said, Pete doesn't exactly tell the truth there, he didn't have a gun on him at the moment he died.

As for Harry, even though Pete never told her what was going on with the two of them, she would have been aware of the problems Harry had with making his money from being associated and possibly being friends with spider-man, who he feels killed his father.

edit: And even if Pete didn't let her in that far on what was going on, she certainly would have seen that they weren't associating, and Pete must've told her they had a falling out.

 

[The Joker]

Ok forget about the Goblin and Ock. Her having concern with Peter's mental state and whether he was going after Sandman for the right reasons was justified.

And that falls under what Dragon has been saying above. If Peter can restrain himself from murdering super villains who threatened his frail old Aunt, or MJ, or murdering innocent people etc, then she should have enough faith in him to believe he's not going to kill Sandman.

She's seen Peter in action as a hero first hand several times. She above anyone else in these movies should have total faith in him.

And the fact that the other guy whom he thought killed Ben died in the altercation is reason enough for her to be worried, even if she doesnt think he murdered him.

Why should she be concerned if she really believes Peter? He told her what happened. Either she believes him or she doesn't.

and as i said, Pete doesn't exactly tell the truth there, he didn't have a gun on him at the moment he died.

Eh? Peter did tell the truth.

Peter: "He had a gun on me. I made a move, and he fell. I told you that."

That's exactly what happened. Carradine pulled a gun on Peter, Peter disarmed him by twisting his wrist, Carradine stumbled backwards in pain, tripped over the pipe in the floor, and fell out the window.

It was an accident.

As for Harry, even though Pete never told her waht was going on with the two of them, she would have been aware of teh problems Harry had with making his money from being associated and possibly being friends with spider-man, who he feels killed his father.

But they were still friends despite that. They were still friends two years later after Norman's death. He was at Peter's birthday party. He arranged for Peter to meet his scientific idol, Otto Octavius etc. Why would it now suddenly be a problem?

MJ never took it into account for that very reason. It was only since Harry learned Peter's secret did it really tear them apart. That's when she started asking what was going on with them.

 

[david icke]

And that falls under what Dragon has been saying above. If Peter can restrain himself from murdering super villains who threatened his frail old Aunt, or MJ, or murdering innocent people etc, then she should have enough faith in him to believe he's not going to kill Sandman.

She's seen Peter in action as a hero first hand several times. She above anyone else in these movies should have total faith in him.

And i think both of you are missing the point of her concern, or at least being far too hard on her, and being too idealistic.

First off to your points, the difference is he did kill one of his family, not tried. and it was one of his family not an innocent.

She just wants to be sure and check in with him as it's just came out of teh blue, and , let's not forget, the other guy did die.
and a witness might say Pete didn't do everything in his power to save him, or exactly regretted that the guy died.
even so, regardless of that, we're atlking about a guy with superpowers, superstrength.
If he loses control even for a second with a normal person, they could be killed. and when would he be more suceptible to losing control?
She would be a moron and not doing her job as his partner not to bring up and explore the possibility that he could lose it with the guy and the guy could die as a result.

Why should she be concerned if she really believes Peter? He told her what happened. Either she believes him or she doesn't.

anyway, as i said above, regardless of that, she makes the right move in checking in with him.

Eh? Peter did tell the truth.

Peter: "He had a gun on me. I made a move, and he fell. I told you that."

That's exactly what happened. Carradine pulled a gun on Peter, Peter disarmed him by twisting his wrist, Carradine stumbled backwards in pain, tripped over the pipe in the floor, and fell out the window.

It was an accident.

Twisting the gun out of his hand did not cause him to fall out the window.
He might have a sore hand, but he stumbles back in fear not pain per se, he didn't twist his legs to get rid of the gun.
you're twisting the facts to make Peter look better just as he did.

But they were still friends despite that. They were still friends two years later after Norman's death. He was at Peter's birthday party. He arranged for Peter to meet his scientific idol, Otto Octavius etc. Why would it now suddenly be a problem?

MJ never took it into account for that very reason. It was only since Harry learned Peter's secret did it really tear them apart. That's when she started asking what was going on with them.

Regardless, for the line 'you two seem to be fine now,' , all she has to know is that Pete and Harry have issues between them.

 

[The Joker]

And i think both of you are missing the point of her concern, or at least being far too hard on her, and being too idealistic.

And I think you're trying to forgive bad writing of a very flawed character. You've been trying to defend MJ's selfish behaviour over the last 3 movies to Dragon for the last couple of pages.

First off to your points, the difference is he did kill one of his family, not tried. and it was one of his family not an innocent.

The only difference is that he actually succeeded. Would you feel any less angry if someone tried to kill your mother? Or Girlfriend? Would that not push you to murderous thoughts and impulses when faced with someone who tried to kill someone you love?

Peter's been living with Ben's death for nearly 3 years. He's faced all kinds of challenges and come through them with his head held high. MJ knows this better than anyone.

She just wants to be sure and check in with him as it's just came out of teh blue, and , let's not forget, the other guy did die.

But Peter told her what happened. So she either believes that Peter acted in self defense, or she doesn't. And she obviously doesn't believe him if she has to tell him not to do anything stupid.

and a witness might say Pete didn't do everything in his power to save him, or exactly regretted that the guy died.

There was no witnesses.

even so, regardless of that, we're atlking about a guy with superpowers, superstrength.
If he loses control even for a second with a normal person, they could be killed. and when would he be more suceptible to losing control?

Again, she's seen him face that kind of provocation. Spider-Man doesn't kill. Even Aunt May said that when Peter told her Spidey killed Sandman.

anyway, as i said above, regardless of that, she makes the right move in checking in with him.

Of course she makes the right move in checking to see if he's ok. But she didn't have to tell him not to do anything stupid "Like with that other guy".

Twisting the gun out of his hand did not cause him to fall out the window.

No, tripping over the pipe did.

He might have a sore hand, but he stumbles back in fear not pain per se, he didn't twist his legs to get rid of the gun.

Horse radish.

He is gasping in pain as he stumbles backwards.

you're twisting the facts to make Peter look better just as he did.

I'm not twisting anything. Don't get pissy just because I don't agree with your perception of what happened. They're not "facts". And no offence, but alot of your perceptions about this have been very flawed. MJ thinking Peter might have killed Ock and Gobby, for example. I think you're just trying to defend the poor writing of a bad character.

And even if I did agree with your perception, it doesn't alter the fact that Peter did not cause Carradine's death. It was an accident. Plain and simple. Peter was not lying with what he told MJ.

Regardless, for the line 'you two seem to be fine now,' , all she has to know is that Pete and Harry have issues between them.

But nothing that stopped them from being friends for a solid two years since Norman's death. It's only since Harry learned Peter's secret did the cracks become noticeable. And notice it she did.

 

[Dragon]

No, her instincts where right.

Well, Joker has been ably responding to these points, but since I'm a yacker that love a good debate.. Let me add...

Her instincts were wrong. Unless her instincts were zeroing on the symbiote. Because only under the symbiote's influence did Peter attempt to kill Marko. Of his own volition, even after seeing his best friend murdered Peter tried to save Eddie, and forgave Marko.

and why should she think he might do something stupid? Because teh last guy he thought who killed Ben died. Norman Osborne, the guy who attacked aunt May and tried to kill MJ died. Doc Ock presumably died.
All people who have threatened Peter's family.

Is that what they were? Because what they actually were was murderers. MJ saw for herself The Goblin and Ock's disregard for human life. And she knows that Carradine and Marko are culpable for murder. It may have turned out that Carradine in the end didn't shoot Ben, but he sure as hell left him in the street to die, and he was going to kill Peter.

And where are some of you guys getting the idea that it's Peter's responsility to save killers? In each case, Goblin, Carradine, Eddie Brock- they placed THEMSELVES in jeopardy. Peter's responsibility is to protect the innocent and not to misuse his power by commiting murder. Those guys make foolish choices with their lives, they deserve their fate.

MJ- IF SHE LOVES PETER gives him the benefit of the doubt. Even if he did actually kill any of these SOBs (which he didn't), she'd figure it was in self-defense.

I doubt she thinks he's a murderer, but she might , deep down, think he cuts loose with his powers in anger if he's emotionally involved.

And if he did, he'd be justified. The Goblin gleefully attempted to kill her and a tram-car full of children. Ock, gladly endangered the entire population of New York to stroke his ego. Carradine drew a gun on Peter and was ready to murder him when Peter gave him a chance to give-up.

What would she think if she witnessed what happened with Carradine? would she think , 'Peter could've webbed him and saved him.'

Well, she might, but then that's why I'm arguing that she's an ass. Because as we saw, Peter was just getting contol of his web-firing ability, and being in a rather emotional state at that point he might not have reacted perfectly. And again, Carradine put himself in harm's way. Even if Peter made a conscious choice not to save him, it wouldn't be wrong. Should the responders to the recent Ft. Hood shooting have been thinking about the killer's welfare too?

Peter also says he had a gun on him, he didn't at that point. He's skirting the truth.

Well, Joker ran down the events in detail. And let's note- Peter could have just as easily snapped his neck. So MJ has no right to argue about his response being stupid.

MJ is right , he is acting stupid, and she has not been present at his escapades to know exactly if he has always been in control.

Okay- so MJ by not seeing what happened has a right to make a judgement about what happened????? Wow.

that's not what his expression and reaction to it says. It says, 'jeez, big deal, where's the sandman report?' He's dead set om vengeance, and doesn't care aboiut anything else.

Who said he's dead set on vengeance? He's dead set on CAPTURING HIM. As for the old man, So- Peter was supposed to interrupt MJ (We know how much she hates being interrupted) to give a reaction to something he knew he couldn't do anything about? And obviously MJ didn't care about the old man. She gave no reaction either and since she was in the mood to chastise Peter, that would've been ammunition in her eyes.

she doesn't know that for sure, and maybe Peter doesn't either if he's being honest with himself, given his slightly different version of events he gives.

She doesn't know what? That Marko is a murderer and might kill again? But she does feel confident in accusing Peter, who she's seen literally break his back to save others and NEVER seen him kill anyone of "doing something stupid"? So she should give a known killer the benefit of the doubt, but not the man she "loves"?

 

[david icke]

The only difference is that he actually succeeded. Would you feel any less angry if someone tried to kill your mother? Or Girlfriend? Would that not push you to murderous thoughts and impulses when faced with someone who tried to kill someone you love?

Yeah, i think that is a big difference, Ben isn't coming back, that could push anyone to rage, especially if it's a person you will probably be engaged in a fight with when you catch up to them. All it takes is a moment of control to be lost for a superpowered person to kill accidently.

Peter's been living with Ben's death for nearly 3 years. He's faced all kinds of challenges and come through them with his head held high. MJ knows this better than anyone.

But, he is not a normal man. As i said above, one tiny moment of rage during the altercation and the guy could die. This has to be checked in with by his partner.

But Peter told her what happened. So she either believes that Peter acted in self defense, or she doesn't. And she obviously doesn't believe him if she has to tell him not to do anything stupid.

There was no witnesses.

I was really talking about us, the audience, our take on what happened.

Again, she's seen him face that kind of provocation. Spider-Man doesn't kill. Even Aunt May said that when Peter told her Spidey killed Sandman.

Yep, but he is only human emotionally, and can lose self control when upset, but not only human physically, and that is the point, he is more dangerous than a normal person in that situation, regardless of what he has done in the past.

Of course she makes the right move in checking to see if he's ok. But she didn't have to tell him not to do anything stupid "Like with that other guy".

Ok, if she said 'don't do anything stupid like with that other guy.' and menat that literally, that's out of order.
But, my perception of that line has always been , Don't do anything stupid'= 'Don't lose control and end up killing the guy.'
'like that other guy' = 'the other guy died'
Just a way of saying 'don't lose control and have an accident where the guy dies.'

No, tripping over the pipe did.

He could've webbed him in that moment arguably, plenty of time for someone with his speed, he didn't even try.
You could argue he was an amatuer at that point, or didn't care because he was angry, or, a bit of both played in, which i probably would argue.

Horse radish.

He is gasping in pain as he stumbles backwards.

Yes, he is in pain, but his pain doesn't cause him to stumble, it's because he's backing off in fear, and then doesn't see the pipe.
I didn't say he wasn't in pain, i said the pain didn't cause him to fall, ie the fact he had a gun twisted out of his hand didn't cause him to fall. The way Pete describes it it would have been like he only had one chance to avoid getting shot and that was to kick the guy out the window.

I'm not twisting anything. Don't get pissy just because I don't agree with your perception of what happened. They're not "facts". And no offence, but alot of your perceptions about this have been very flawed. MJ thinking Peter might have killed Ock and Gobby, for example. I think you're just trying to defend the poor writing of a bad character.

Ok, sorry, didn't mean to imply you were deliberatly twisting the events, but I will say that the event does not play out the way Pete implies or you perceive. and I've detailed that a bit more above.

And even if I did agree with your perception, it doesn't alter the fact that Peter did not cause Carradine's death. It was an accident. Plain and simple. Peter was not lying with what he told MJ.

Yeah, it was an accident, and i gave reasons why Pete may not have reacted in time to attempt to save him above.
all i'm saying is Pete gave a slightly differentimplication in saying 'he had a gun on me'.
But, like MJ's line about being stupid, it's not literal either, and I think that is a realistic exchange, as people don't always talk literally to each other, they imply and skirt details to get to the point.
Peter's point: 'I did not set out to , or murder that guy, when i fought it was in self defence , there was an accident, the guy died.'

MJ's point: 'I don't think you are a killer, but we both know you have superpowers and given the emotion and hurt involved, you could lose control of yourself and another accident could occur that caused teh guy to die, like that other guy did.'

But nothing that stopped them from being friends for a solid two years since Norman's death. It's only since Harry learned Peter's secret did the cracks become noticeable. And notice it she did.

Yeah, sorry, i don't know how this is relevant anymore. I thought we wre just talking about why she said that line, it's not that big a deal that she did.

ok, i bet i lose this post, i dont know how to copy/paste on my computer. oh well...here goes...

 

[drmick]

My original post about people liking sm3 being idiots was obviously deliberately facetious, and thus sarcastic. And I quoted david icke in that post purely because of your username (I would recommend that our American collegues check out who that is on wikipedia). I also mentioned being delusional in that troll-like post. Which all adds to the irony.

 

[david icke]

My original post about people liking sm3 being idiots was obviously deliberately facetious, and thus sarcastic. And I quoted david icke in that post purely because of your username (I would recommend that our American collegues check out who that is on wikipedia). I also mentioned being delusional in that troll-like post. Which all adds to the irony.

Yeah, sacrasm has always been exclusive from being insulting.
If you think there is a problem with the perception of your intentions in the post, the problem lies in your post, not the reader.
I'm sorry that the fans of SM3 are not intelligent enough to know automatically that you really don't mean what you say in a post, especially when you went to great trouble to explain the type of fan you regarded as idiotic.
'no, these guys arn't idiots, that's not what I'm saying..it's these guys over here who i regard as idiots.'
You said in a pretty straight up post beforehand that the boards were clogged up with idiots proclaiming it was the best one of the series. you then went on to explain exactly what you meant by that.
If you are expecting strangers on the interent to immediately know that you're 'only kidding', then you are expecting too much.
I mean, with this latest post you are still trying to make out folk are not very intelligent if they did not pick up on the fact you were not serious.
What post does that remind me of?
Anyway, I don't acre what you think of other people's tastes, but don't expect that can can just say anything you want and not get called on it, or try backing out of a statement while basically making the same kind of claim to a grand know-better-than thou attitude.

edit: and yes,Ii did think it was a 'baiting' type post, not necesarily for myself, which you seem to be implying I thought, but for any fan of SM3. For what other reason would you call people 'idiots' for liking a certain movie? What did you expect folk to say, 'Good one! vfunny! We know you don't mean it, vv funny!', or did you expect folk to feel insulted while you sat back and exalted in the knowledge that you were only being 'facetious and sarcastic'

edit: Dude, I don't want to get into a to and fro argument with you, but i hope you can see my point. Posting up that kind of thing can only get people's backs up, the net is not the best medium for saying something literally, when you are really not serious. I mean, SM3 fans have actually already had their lack of intelligence insulted straight up already in this threa, and i assume you would've read that, so I don't know how you can assume that folk would know you were playing around, or that you would not get a few reactions.
Let's have some peace on this matter.

edit: And just to be absolutely clear on things, the reason I queried your quoting of that particular statement of mine was that I thought you may have thought there was a possibility I would agree with you on some level, when it should have been clear from that quote that I would not.

Dragon: I'm sorry I have not responded yet to some of you rpoints, tbh I'm a little SM3'd out at the moment. Will respond later, cheers.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

You guys do realize SM3 had the best scene in all of the Spidey movies don't ya?

Mr Ditkovich: You tell her; You are good woman, I am good man

Pete:...?

Mr Ditkovich: Hmm?

 

[david icke]

You guys do realize SM3 had the best scene in all of the Spidey movies don't ya?

Mr Ditkovich: You tell her; You are good woman, I am good man

Pete:...?

Mr Ditkovich: Hmm?

Yeah, that was pretty funny, I also liked how they named them after Ditko.
Man, I thought nearly all the funny stuff in SM3 was good in the way it was intended. I can see why some folk where turned off when they went in expecting a really dark SM movie, and I was a bit wtf as well during the strutting scene, but it worked for me, I still get good laughs out of it.

edit: i would've liked to have seen old Mrs Muggins from the comics as spidey's landlord, but MrDitkovitch fits the tradition there of the amusing landlord who is always chasing up Parker for rent.