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How would Jean in X3 react to...

Decay said:
Now you puzzle me. Why did she kill Scott then? The only bad thing he did was to love her.

It has never been established that she killed him. It's only implied. The other characters think she did and pressure her with that suggestion. Look at the way that scene was filmed. Had they wanted to show Scott die, they would have. And look at how she reacts to them insisting that she killed him. She becomes agitated, doesn't she? Either because she's denying it to herself, or because... it didn't happen that way. Makes you wonder.

And yes you are absolutely correct. The only bad thing he did was to love her. And she knew that. She could certainly sense that. Which is exactly why it becomes even more preposterous that she would have killed him. Her being with Scott, being held by him and knowing how much he loved her and feeling safe and at peace was exactly what the doctor would order as a cure for the Phoenix. Certainly not to bring out her rage or blow people away.

You remember how frightened Jean was at the beginning of X2 when she knew something terrible was going to happen. That look of fear and then comfort as Scott embraces her, how beautifully she holds on to him. And then as Scott tells her "I won't let anything happen to you". Scott is a strong character. You don't see it during quiet times, but when the ***** goes down he thinks clearly and you can trust him to get everyone out alive. He's the kind of man who would not made idle promises and keeps his word, no matter what.
Jean knew that, which is one of the reasons why she wouldn't let him interferre at the end of X2, because she knew he would try to rescue her and then they might all die.

I feel that Jean's resurrection in X3 was an opportunity for Scott to keep that promise to her but he was robbed. I want him to have that chance
 
Majik1387 said:
So then what was Scott's excuse for abscence? (I refuse to say death)

There are plenty of scenarios that would make sense that wouldn't contradict most of the movie's footage until the battle of Alcatraz, depending on how you want to write it up.

The general consensus on this forum and others seems to be that Jean wasn't quite as good at holding back his optic beams as she thought she would be, or that by holding them back it was causing side effects, like terrible pain to his temples. Which would explain why in the final moments of that scene you see him struggling or in pain. Jean lost her concentration, became agitated, Scott telling her that it hurts and to stop what she's doing. As she becomes agitated random things start levitating in the air, water starts to vaporize from the lake (we know this kind of stuff happens whenever she has nightmares, like shaking the bedroom or books and furniture flying around).
Before you know it, his optic beams suddenly come back and he fires at her at point blank range. She reacts by reflex the way you would if someone were to toss something at your head. Puts up her arm and deflects it, just like she did when Scott attacked her inside the dam. Except this time she's alot more powerful, so the reaction is much for violent and painful for poor Scott. He gets capatulted back like he did inside the dam but much further this time, into that wooded area. Branches and bushes break his fall. Definitely out of sight. Jean's knocked back, falls off that rocky outcropping and hits her head, or just passes out from shock.
There are variations of this. They could have both been found lying close together but Scott's injuries needed treatment at a real hospital so he'd be out of commission for a while. Or Scott was thrown so far into the woods that they couldn't find him. The book states there was a tracking device in the motorcycle but not on Scott. And Wolverine's sense of smell doesn't work if the wind blows the wrong way, and you can't follow a trail if there isn't one to begin with.
Or by the time they got there, Scott could have already left the area, groping around blindly trying to find his way. He certainly would have some training to know what to do if he ever loses his visor or glasses.

Remember the dialogue at the medical bay later on? Only a small change is needed. Logan would simply ask Jean "what happened to Scott?", not knowing that she didn't know. She's dazed and shocked again and only sees flashbacks: they're together hugging, and suddenly there's a bright flash and all goes black. She could have been convinced she killed him and never had a chance to clear things up. Angry and upset, she blows Logan against the wall and walks out and to her house just as before.

Scott could be missing in action for as long as you want him to be. He could be in the hospital for a while, , lost in the wilderness. Either way would be effective to remove him from the story for now or have people think he's dead. They could either decide to look for him again and this time manage to find him, or he's rescued when he manages to run into other people: Hikers, motorists, park rangers, etc.
Had Cerebro been available, they could have used that to check for sure. They could have said "Scott's dead", and that would have been that. But they didn't, so it gives us another hole to exploit :)
There are indeed lots of possibilities which are reasonable and believable and wouldn't contradict the film until the end, where you now have the opportunity to make the outcome of the story much more interesting.

90% of this movie was based on a script that the writers admitted was just a rough draft put together in about 80 minutes, and it shows. I doubt they ever sat down to think about the details of these scenes or what they meant. I get the feeling they got more input from the actual cast members than what they could have thought up themselves.

I'd pay money to see the look on Jean's face or to read what goes on in her head when she sees Scott emerge from the blackbird at Worthington labs, realizing that he's alive after all.
 
Decay said:
Now you puzzle me. Why did she kill Scott then? The only bad thing he did was to love her.

I for one, don't believe he's dead. If they really wanted to confirm that Cyclops was indeed dead then why didn't they show us. I truly believe they had something up their sleeve with that. No way is Cyclops just dead. If he is dead, and I said if, then the writers truly made an utter and complete mess of trying to make his death gratifying and emotional.

Anyways back into what I was going to say in reply to you, lol.
Remember that Professor X said that the Phoenix entity embodies joy, lust, passion, etc. It could simply be that Jeans reaction to seeing Scott, which would've been love, passion, joy, lust, etc, probably just trigered the Phoenix side of her, and her power and it came forth accidently. I don't think if he is dead that Jean intended to kill him.
 
Mothling said:
Anyways back into what I was going to say in reply to you, lol.
Remember that Professor X said that the Phoenix entity embodies joy, lust, passion, etc. It could simply be that Jeans reaction to seeing Scott, which would've been love, passion, joy, lust, etc, probably just trigered the Phoenix side of her, and her power and it came forth accidently. I don't think if he is dead that Jean intended to kill him.

I believe those emotions were Joy, Desire, and Rage. We all know what happens when Rage kicks in. I can't possibly imagine Scott bringing out Rage. The infirmary scene with Wolverine brought out Desire, her naughty, lustful side.
Scott could only have brought out Joy. Seeing her alive again through tear-streaked eyes he couldn't have felt anything else except joy and love for her. He certainly wasn't fantasizing about getting into her pants at Alkali Lake, and she would know that. Even if the phoenix persona surfaced, I doubt that her response to feeling Joy would be blowing Scott away :)
 
It would make for an interesting scene if Logan finally finds Scott and has to fill him in on the details.

Scott: "What's going on? what did I miss?"

Logan: "Your girlfriend's gone berzerk, Charles is dead, and there's a big party going on in San Francisco that you won't want to miss. Everyone will be there"
 
ntcrawler said:
I believe those emotions were Joy, Desire, and Rage. We all know what happens when Rage kicks in. I can't possibly imagine Scott bringing out Rage. The infirmary scene with Wolverine brought out Desire, her naughty, lustful side.
Scott could only have brought out Joy. Seeing her alive again through tear-streaked eyes he couldn't have felt anything else except joy and love for her. He certainly wasn't fantasizing about getting into her pants at Alkali Lake, and she would know that. Even if the phoenix persona surfaced, I doubt that her response to feeling Joy would be blowing Scott away :)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying just because Jean was happy that she blasted him good and proper. I'm saying that because she saw Scott, the love of her life, she would've been overcome with joy. Joy, as the Professor said is one of the Phoenix's dominating personality traits.

I simply meant that by experiencing extreme joy, Jean triggered the power of the Phoenix unwittingly, by tapping into an emotion that the Phoenix holds dominant.
 
ntcrawler said:
Scott: "What's going on? what did I miss?"

Logan: "Your girlfriend's gone berzerk, Charles is dead, and there's a big party going on in San Francisco that you won't want to miss. Everyone will be there"

Heh, I highly doubt there was a party (though I know you're only joking ;))

After Logan gutted Jean, the team probably had to make it all the way back to New York with Jeans body in tow. That woulda been difficult, considering the X-Jet was destroyed.

*imagines the X-Team sitting on a bus, decked out in their full X-Suits and a dead Jean under Logans arm*
 
Mothling said:
I simply meant that by experiencing extreme joy, Jean triggered the power of the Phoenix unwittingly, by tapping into an emotion that the Phoenix holds dominant.

Ah ok, I think I see what you're saying. So as the phoenix side kicked in, she lost her focus on keeping Scott's optic beams in control and that's when things went wrong?

I'm hoping you don't consider the outcome to be fatal though
 
ntcrawler said:
Ah ok, I think I see what you're saying. So as the phoenix side kicked in, she lost her focus on keeping Scott's optic beams in control and that's when things went wrong?

I'm hoping you don't consider the outcome to be fatal though

No way. Scott ain't dead. I think when Logan confronted Jean and asked "Where's Scott?" She tried remembering and because she was so confused as to Phoenix coming forward and probably blasting Scott into the forest, she believe she had fatally wounded him.
 
I'd prefer them bringing back a warm body. The tension inside the plane during the flight back would make for some creative writing. Your other idea is great also. It would give Wolverine a chance to give one of his witty lines:

Cyclops: "It's ok Jean. It's gonna be all right. Your nightmare's over. You're safe now. I won't let anything happen to you. Let's go home. [looks around at his teammates] All right everyone, let's get out of here! Back to the blackbird!"

Wolverine: "fat chance, one-eye. The plane's been destroyed. Looks like we walk"

Cyclops: [insert random expletive]
 
I wonder how they actually did get back to New York?
 
Mothling said:
I wonder how they actually did get back to New York?

Novel gives a bit of an explanation to this but it sounds like the author got lazy here. Before dying, Jean simply undid as much of the damage as she caused, returning everything she could to normal.

That probably wouldn't work for our purposes. If Jean survives the ordeal, she'd probably be too traumatized or hurt to think clearly enough to try to do that. I suppose there are other conventional means of getting back? The Xavier institute has friends in high places or at least gives its field members expense cards with high credit limits. Chartering a business jet seems likely.
 
Mothling said:
I wonder how they actually did get back to New York?

Everyone jumps on angels back and angel flys them back to the mansion :)
 
Majik1387 said:
Nightcrawler. :)

*imagines the whole team clinging hold of Nightcrawler as he bamfs them all the way back to New York bit by bit*
 
Mothling said:
*imagines the whole team clinging hold of Nightcrawler as he bamfs them all the way back to New York bit by bit*

I think having him there and saying a prayer during the final climax asking for heavenly protection for them all would have been touching.
 
Something else that I'm wondering about and would like everyone's input on:

Nobody tried telling Jean not to listen to Magneto, that the old bastard was just feeding her lies to turn her against her friends. Not even Xavier even while Magneto was blabbering next to him at her house

Would pointing any of this out make a difference to her?

That he just wants to use her like a tool to accomplish his own plans? That to him she's disposable the way Rogue was? That she helped rescue Rogue from him back at Liberty Island and now she was helping him? That Magneto wants to turn her against her friends and teammates for the sake of creating a war? That his only agenda is to have a world based on fear whereas the X-Men wanted to give the world hope?

That if she didn't believe them to just read his mind?
 
Well I think had she not killed him then him being in the final battle would have had a effect on her.
As far as him taking a hit, I donmt think that would effect her becuse the only time she really used her powers was when she was the Phoenix and the Phoenix felt threatened.

Another thing: Here's what I dont understand about the uproar about the whole Scott and Jean thing... as far as the movies go the whole love story between her and Scott was never focused upon or even dealt with. Yeah the two of them share a few words and loving glances but never anything more. If you were viewing this without knowing anything about the comics you would not see Jean and Scott as great lovers.
Thats why I think that the fact that he was killed in the first 20 minutes was not a huge deal for the general audiences. I know some people who were happy to see him go.

I think it was because he shot into the lake that she killed him. The only time she kills is when she feels threatened so maybe that's why.
 
Mothling said:
I for one, don't believe he's dead. If they really wanted to confirm that Cyclops was indeed dead then why didn't they show us. I truly believe they had something up their sleeve with that. No way is Cyclops just dead. If he is dead, and I said if, then the writers truly made an utter and complete mess of trying to make his death gratifying and emotional.

Anyways back into what I was going to say in reply to you, lol.
Remember that Professor X said that the Phoenix entity embodies joy, lust, passion, etc. It could simply be that Jeans reaction to seeing Scott, which would've been love, passion, joy, lust, etc, probably just trigered the Phoenix side of her, and her power and it came forth accidently. I don't think if he is dead that Jean intended to kill him.
Of course she didn't intend to kill him. She didn't intend to kill Xavier either but eventually she did....
 
Decay said:
Of course she didn't intend to kill him. She didn't intend to kill Xavier either but eventually she did....

She didn't intend to kill Xavier??

I would pretty much say having a telepathic fight, overcoming Xavier, then proceeding to use your telekinetic ability to lift him into the air, rip pieces of his flesh off, raise a whole building into the air, then make Xavier explode is pretty much intentional.
 
I think she was hearing Xavier out at first but as soon as he started takiing about control, I guess she felt threatened(or the Phoenix did rather) and the it just hit the fan after that. After that she was focusing all her power on him.

If he hadnt mentioned Scott she probably wouldnt have flipped out.
 
i think it could have affected her in a good way. maybe she could have realized that she could take control of the phoenix.
 
Mothling said:
She didn't intend to kill Xavier??

I would pretty much say having a telepathic fight, overcoming Xavier, then proceeding to use your telekinetic ability to lift him into the air, rip pieces of his flesh off, raise a whole building into the air, then make Xavier explode is pretty much intentional.
The real Jean Grey, not Phoenix, wouldn't kill anyone.
 
Decay said:
The real Jean Grey, not Phoenix, wouldn't kill anyone.

Yes. I think whoever put this script together failed to take into account that there are certain fundamental traits about Jean that are even more powerful than th Phoenix persona and all that power. I can accept her taking out Xavier. All that frustration and anger that build up inside her over the years, and him being now portrayed as an arrogant lying SOB. I could see her blacking out from rage and giving into her anger. I can see her going berzerk towards the end of the film and blacking out again too, giving into her rage.

But I cannot see her intentionally or unintentionally destroying Scott. Hurting him? Yes. But not killing him. And even despite her rage, she did not hurt, kill, or maim any of the other X-Men, civilians, or innocent bystanders. . Despite things getting messy and confusing and everyone getting mixed up and running in all directions at the same time, the only ones who were obliterated were the soldiers who tried to attack her, or the mutants fighting on Magneto's side. She could have blasted Storm out of the sky, but didn't. She could have blown Bobby and Kitty away, but didn't. Beast could have disappeared in the blink of an eye, but didn't. And there was a reason for that.
 

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