Justice League How would you feel about John Stewart amd Wally West instead of Hal and Barry?

[DaveMoral]

Wolverine has beaten death at least once, and by that I'm talking reassembled from nothing to come back and gut the bad guy. Jean Grey's most interesting stories come from a ridiculous power up and cheating death(in fact, she's the most lampooned died and resurrected character in comics).

Those kinds of things are just part of comics that run for 30+ years.

 

[brainchild81]

Y'all (intentionally?) confusing beating/cheating w/''becoming attuned to all life & conquering”. Huge difference. I love Wolvie but I hate what Marvel does w/him @times. He shouldn't be able to come back from nothing. He's cool enough to the point where he doesn't need ridiculous stuff to shine. Jean is called Phoenix for a reason but she's dead right now so she isn't ''attuned to all life & hasn't conquered death”

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Coming back to life/beating the maifestation of death are near enough the same thing. The Phoenix force is the manifestation of life as much as The Trespasser is. Not to mention The Phoenix is also omnipotent.

 

[brainchild81]

Nah. Near enough is a matter of opinion. I'll use odd examples to explain mine.

Jean: You killed me but I'll rise again.
Death: And I'll kill your ass again, *****! Hal Jordan, you're next!

Hal (after kicking Death's ass): You can't see me Death!

Death: Huh?

Hal: You heard me! I'm attuned to all life in all universes now. You can't kill me, ever. I've conquered you!

Death: Damn. You tough as hell. I'ma leave you alone from now on.

Hal: Yeah! King Kong ain't got **** on me! I'm Hal Mutha****ing Jordan!

See the difference? And while coming back from death is a core part of the phoenix, I doubt Hal's still attuned to all life. Or is he?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

No, it was while he was in symbiosis, for about 5 pages, with The Trespasser. Literally the Life Force of the universe, same thing as Phoenix. Except Jean actually IS the Phoenix, and the Phoenix is Jean. Hal only had help, with an added side effect.


Also they say at the end of the story that eventually Nekron will win. Which of course he will, he is as powerful as God (the DCU character) and all life is basically an accident. Nekron is basically the DCU explanation of entropy, his victory is inevitable.

The Phoenix/Jean, however, cannot die, is the life force of the Marvel Universe, exists across all of space-time and can create and can destroy matter as she pleases. So, is, in short, omnipotent. All Hal did was prevent the early death of the universe, leaving the Vanishing Point to try and help everyone. Which eventually they do.

 

[Sun_Down]

All I'm seeing for pro-Hal arguments are plots he was involved in. Really, any GL could have been written into those stories. People say, "He's the greatest Green Lantern!" But really, that's just because some writers decided to say so and put him in these universe-in-the-balance situations.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I explained to him the plot because he asked about it. Not as a pro Hal Jordan argument. If he asked about Green Lantern: Mosaic, I would explain that it turned John Stewart into a member of the Guardians.

 

[HighFivingMF]

All I'm seeing for pro-Hal arguments are plots he was involved in. Really, any GL could have been written into those stories. People say, "He's the greatest Green Lantern!" But really, that's just because some writers decided to say so and put him in these universe-in-the-balance situations.

Every character is what they are because a writer said it...

 

[MarvelKnight]

I like John Stewart, but I can't help that I'm nostalgic for the classics. Go with the classic lineup and keep hal.

 

[cleverusername8]

For those who haven't seen, I've finally added a poll for this. Hopefully we can finally lay this argument to rest

 

[The Guard]

Every character is what they are because a writer said it...

Yeah, it's kind of silly to ask why a character is better or more interesting than any other and then say "They're only that because they were written to be!"

 

[Venom'sDad]

For those who haven't seen, I've finally added a poll for this. Hopefully we can finally lay this argument to rest

Huh...that poll is blah, what if I prefer John and Barry?

 

[DChero]

I feel like the GA not liking the movie was more a reflection on Green Lanterns in general, not as much Hal's character.

Superman was in Superman Returns, does that mean we should see Superboy instead?

I want Hal in the Justice League movie, so I am biased. To most, that movie covers most of what people know about the Green Lanterns. Would it have done better or worse with John Stewart?

 

[cleverusername8]

Huh...that poll is blah, what if I prefer John and Barry?

I considered having options like that but I thought that would be over doing it. I just stuck to what was in the thread title.

 

[Sun_Down]

Yeah, it's kind of silly to ask why a character is better or more interesting than any other and then say "They're only that because they were written to be!"

Again, plots are not characteristics. I find it silly to say a character is better than another because he was involved in a certain story. Compare this to saying character is better than another because he possesses some trait (i.e. saying Hal is better than John because his recklessness/arrogance would lead to good interactions with Batman).

All of this, "He was the spirit of vengeance!" stuff doesn't say anything about him as a character. All it says is he was used in a certain story that way.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

We tell people the plots so they can go and find the story themselves. For example, as The Spectre, he felt the guilt of his actions of Parallax still coursing throughout his soul, he wished to atone for this, and tried to fight against the will of The Spectre itself turning its mission from vengeance to redemption.

This plot point displays the two most important characteristics of any Green Lantern, the ability to stand up despite insurmountable odds, and use his massive amount of willpower (Hal was successful) against a being far greater than yourself.

It's all about inference, but to do that, you actually need to have knowledge of these characters, so I see where the confusion comes from.

 

[The Guard]

Again, plots are not characteristics. I find it silly to say a character is better than another because he was involved in a certain story. Compare this to saying character is better than another because he possesses some trait (i.e. saying Hal is better than John because his recklessness/arrogance would lead to good interactions with Batman).

All of this, "He was the spirit of vengeance!" stuff doesn't say anything about him as a character. All it says is he was used in a certain story that way.

And all that listing basic characteristics, which dozens of characters throughout literature and film have/had in common would say is that a particular character was given certain characteristics. Which any writer could do for any character at any time.

What's your point?

I’ll repeat myself one more time:

He has a sense of justice and service and an understanding of fragility and forgiveness and a depth of soul/spirit and hope for mankind and the universe itself that few others have been written/shown to have.

In other words, he is probably the most human of the Green Lanterns, despite being capable of being the most inhuman of them.

 

[Sun_Down]

It's all about inference, but to do that, you actually need to have knowledge of these characters, so I see where the confusion comes from.

Ooohhh, calling out my fandom. Nerds attack! I'm so offended! LOL

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

You should be, at least here anyway, on a superhero forum in which you have been a member for nearly a decade.

It's like a semi-pro sports driver being heavily criticised and being shown where they have been wrong for a long time.

In any case, that was originally supposed to be sarcastic(should have put an face), but I prefer it now this way .

 

[Sun_Down]

You should be, at least here anyway, on a superhero forum in which you have been a member for nearly a decade.

It's like a semi-pro sports driver being heavily criticised and being shown where they have been wrong for a long time.

In any case, that was originally supposed to be sarcastic(should have put an face), but I prefer it now this way .

The fact that you're so distressed about this that you resort to petty insults is just sad. Just because I don't see the Hal/Spectre storyline being in any way relevant to the JL movie (it won't be), doesn't mean you're somehow better than me. It just means I don't see any of those plot points as being relevant to this movie.

 

[HighFivingMF]

What the **** is this argument about anymore?

 

[Sun_Down]

What the **** is this argument about anymore?

Good point, sorry for the derailment.

On the Wally/Barry issue, one of the things I really liked about the Justice League: Mortal script was the use of both Barry and Wally (Barry dying and Wally taking over - "Tag, you're it.").

While that may be a bit ambitious to fit into one film, maybe they could stretch it out over two? They could introduce Wally as a character in JL1 and have him take over the Flash mantle in JL2 or something. The legacy angle is something that could be really cool on screen, if handled well.

 

[Edguy]

Start of with Barry and Hal, then kill off Barry and have Hal take space duty, while John and Wally rolls with the league. Everybody (sort of) wins

 

[HighFivingMF]

Good point, sorry for the derailment.

On the Wally/Barry issue, one of the things I really liked about the Justice League: Mortal script was the use of both Barry and Wally (Barry dying and Wally taking over - "Tag, you're it.").

While that may be a bit ambitious to fit into one film, maybe they could stretch it out over two? They could introduce Wally as a character in JL1 and have him take over the Flash mantle in JL2 or something. The legacy angle is something that could be really cool on screen, if handled well.

I'd be OK with that. I don't want Barry to die though.

 

[Venom'sDad]

I think the choice between Hal & Jon is settled isn't....Hal's coming back got GL2.