Justice League How would you feel about John Stewart amd Wally West instead of Hal and Barry?

[brainchild81]

I'll leave that there.

Good idea. I'll add what you left out.

I think Geoff Johns lost a lot of clout with WB after Green lantern.WB will listen only to the Nolan Group.

Agreed. Johns & Didio, like many Hal fans, greatly overestimate Hal's potential for mainstream popularity. WB should take them out of the equation after that horrible failure

We were talking about movies. I'm saying don't take Johns input on who to use for any role. Let him stick to the comics. Although I think it'd be cool if he started pushing Stewart in the books as hard as they do Hal

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Geoff never had much clout to begin with, the only "equation" he is involved with is DC Comics. He was more like the excited kid who tried to make as many adjustments to his own stories as possible, but was still ignored and overruled. Like a kind of Stockholm Syndrome.

But I would like to see John get a push. He's the only Lantern to not have their own starring book this century, even a maxi-series like Guy could work, but he likely won't for a while with the introduction of Simon.

 

[Tristan_McClark]

I'd prefer John and Wally. Not only for some diversity, but John is an awesome character in his own right. I loved him and Wally in JLU, which probably brought in a fan base familiar with that show's particular lineup.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I'd prefer John and Wally. Not only for some diversity, but John is an awesome character in his own right. I loved him and Wally in JLU, which probably brought in a fan base familiar with that show's particular lineup.

They need Barry as The Flash though since that's who Flash was in JL/JLU in terms of story and character. They called him Wally West and used his appearance, but gave him Barry Allen's story and Impulse's personality.

 

[shauner111]

A waste of an opportunity if they select Wally just because they would want John Stewart. No Wally West please. You may as well throw Cyborg and Dick Grayson's Robin in there too.

 

[Kevin Smith]

A waste of an opportunity if they select Wally just because they would want John Stewart. No Wally West please. You may as well throw Cyborg and Dick Grayson's Robin in there too.

Exactly.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Here is a fine example of a guy who doesn't know Barry Allen of the comics and thinks Wally West is the JL/JLU Flash, listen to this guy's letter about The Flash in Young Justice:

A Flash Fan writes...

Hello Greg,

My post got deleted, don't know why so I am trying to separate the questions from my post. Thanks for you time.

Here are the Flash questions/comments I promised, mainly centered on Barry Allen.

Your portrayal of the Barry Allen persona to me does not seem like the one I am familiar with in his appearances in the comics, from the Silver Age to his death on Crisis on Infinite Earths and even after his resurrection and into the New 52. To me he always seemed a calm and collective police scientist who had somewhat of Superman's persona in the pursuit of justice. Your version to me seems more like the Wally West persona, especially similar to the Justice League and JLU series of Bruce Timm. He seems more willing to joke around, his outbursts in the first episode of YJ, and his over-eagerness of the present in Mount Justice in the tie-in comic book are just some examples that lead me to this conclusion. So mainly I wanted to know where you drew inspiration for Barry Allen the Flash please. Please understand that I am not criticizing you; you're the creator and you have every right to adapt characters as you seem fit, but it has somewhat bugged me throughout the series. I am happy with the other Flashes though, and glad Kid Flash finally gets some spotlight in an animated series, plus "Bloodlines" was one of the greatest episodes ever!


Greg responds...

A lot of decisions are, I suppose, relativistic. That is, I can't have sixteen Justice Leaguers running around, all with the same intense, focused, personality. So I may take a kernel of something that I see in a character's LOOOONNNNNNGGGG history and develop that into something we can hang our hats (or cowls) upon.

For Barry, I think it's VERY safe to say that the Wally West of JL and JLU had pretty much NO influence on us. Cuz, you know, we were doing WALLY in the show too.

But Cary Bates, who wrote a huge chunk of Barry's adventures before Crisis on Infinite Earths, is one of my best friends, and he always made Barry a little goofy. A little bit of the boy scout, who still had that Flash fanboy in him, i.e. the guy who was inspired by Jay Garrick. We made that literal in our series... and we extended it into his personality. He likes catchphrases, even if he knows they make his wife and friends groan. He's a goody-two shoes and a happily married man and a scientist and a forensics expert and generally this slow, methodical but deeply honest guy, who likes his life and so is pretty at ease with his own sappiness.

He's NOT a smart-ass, which of course, Wally can be at times. And personally I don't think we portrayed him AT ALL like Wally.

But it's out there. If that's what you saw, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=18093

Greg was right on with everything he said. Barry's portrayal on Young Justice was pretty much how I always read him in the comics. I never saw Barry Allen as an "intense focused stuck up" dude like the author of that letter seems to imply, nor did I ever see him as an "idiot". I always read him as pretty easy going, friendly, and down to earth, with a good sense of humor. I think the New 52 Flash book captures that as well, so I don't get what the guy writing the letter's deal was. And Cary Bates wrote some great Flash stories. Happy to see him referenced.

 

[solidsnake86]

Geoff never had much clout to begin with, the only "equation" he is involved with is DC Comics. He was more like the excited kid who tried to make as many adjustments to his own stories as possible, but was still ignored and overruled. Like a kind of Stockholm Syndrome.

But I would like to see John get a push. He's the only Lantern to not have their own starring book this century, even a maxi-series like Guy could work, but he likely won't for a while with the introduction of Simon.

It would be actually interesting to find out what happened with GL because there are conflicting reports. Some websites have said Geoff Johns is to blame for the change in script in GL, but I find it hard to believe that he would have had that much power at the time. As for Guggenheim and berlanti, we know that the first script was generally well received and was subsequently changed for the worse.

I also find it interesting that they were prepared to kill John Stewart especially after Hal's GL in other mediums. To me its a sign that corporate isn't really willing to use his character as the main GL because if they were serious something tells me they would be getting rid of Hal again.

 

[brainchild81]

I've heard conflicting reports about Geoff's power over the film also.
Never heard that they were gonna off Stewart in the books. That's ****ed up

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

It was basically an idea thrown about by editorial, the writer of GLC (the book John appears in mostly) caught wind of it and said he wouldn't write it, new writers came on board, the rumor got out and the new writers confirmed, that they don't have any plans to kill of John.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Wally's been comic relief in the Justice League comic a few times, not just the show.

And Bart's terrible.

To be fair, The Flash in ALL his incarnations has provided the more "light-hearted" fare for the team. That is just part of who that character is, super speed is in and of its self a pretty fun concept, probably one of the funnest superpowers, which makes him a natural choice to be the less "intense" one on the team, but he is not a joke by any means.

And it was Bart/Impulse's personality they used on the JL/JLU show with Barry's story and Wally's name and appearance.

I'd prefer John and Barry myself, but that might just be me.

This is the best way to go I think, although in a perfect world I'd have wanted to see Hal Jordan as GL in the JL film if the GL movie would have done better but at this point it may be better to just use John to distance the character from the terrible GL film as much as possible.

And Barry Allen is a must. They cannot do any live action Flash without him, he is The Flash. Even if they used Wally or Bart they can't do them without having Barry Allen there in some capacity, which is reason alone, yet at the same time only one small reason out of many for why they need to use Barry Allen as The Flash in the movies. It isn't the same as Green Lantern where it's established that there's more than one of them and there always has been (3,600, Corps), which makes it easier to sub in one guy for the other with little or no explanation, with The Flash on the other hand they all come directly from Barry Allen, because of him pretty much. You take away Barry and you have nothing.

So yes, definitely need to use Barry Allen in the movies for sure, and even though he got his powers when he was 24 in the comics, they can make him almost any age he needs to be to work with the rest of the JLA, older or younger.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Honestly growing up, I didn't really read comics. I didn't have a comic book store growing up near me. So as a kid I grew up and watched the cartoons. Batman, Superman, X-Men, Spider-Man, Justice League and others. I'm not saying my way is better than any of yours but just hear me out on where i'm going with this. Now I grew up on Wally and John and I ask if you please understand and see where I'm viewing from. Let's begin with who should be Flash.

Barry Or Wally As Flash​

Now as I said I grew up on Wally but it doesn't matter who you pick between them. The Justice League animated series didn't overly focus on "who Wally is" like it did with Hawkgirl, Martian Manhunter, and others. You really didn't know who Flash was if you think about it. You know Flash isn't the brightest member and is funny but that's really it.

Now while Wally was used, Barry should be used in the Justice League movie. Barry's backstory is in a way even more tragic than Batman's and Barry is very similar in terms of character to Peter Parker. Barry is used in the comics and other media nowadays so use him.

Barry Allen As Flash

John Or Hal As Green Lantern​

Honestly, I didn't really know of Hal Jordan before the movie and if you didn't read comics you didn't know him either. The only main cartoon that stared Hal was Superfriends which was ages ago. Sure he had an Green Lantern: First Flight but you didn't know Hal until the Green Lantern movie. When that hit we got the Green Lantern: Emerald Knights, Green Lantern (live action movie), and Green Lantern: The Animated Series. So in a way unless you read comics, up until 2011 you didn't know Hal Jordan.

Now let's look a John. John is one of the most popular Lanterns. He was widely exposed in Justice League: The Animated Series. John also stared in the gam Justice League: Heroes and was going to be played by Common (which I still think is good casting) in Justice League: Mortal.

The point is the public knew and loved John but didn't know Hal. Sure someone could make a point using comics but at the same time, the comic industry in going as downhill as the music industry. In February of this year, there were only 8 Million comics sold. That's Marvel + DC + anyone else. That's not really a lot.

Here's the way I feel: if you want Hal then keep Green Lantern canon and bring back Ryan or use John. There is no reason to not bring back Ryan and not keep Green Lantern canon. It was bad but it wasn't horrible. I would give the film a 52%. It makes no sense to not bring back Ryan if you use Hal.

Here's the problem, Ryan has said he doesn't want to come back as Hal unless a good director and writer is attached to the film.

Also there are news that WB's and Fox want to cast and include some heroes that aren't "white". People who are of other races.

Now the only heroes are are black that WB's would include would be Cyborg or John Stewart. Yes Martian Manhunter but at the same time Martian Manhunter isn't "black". He can shift into any character of any race of any sex. Also there are no rumors of Cyborg in the film. Green Lantern will be.

John Stewart hasn't been a disappointment in the public eye like Hal has. Let's be honest when you think of Hal Jordan in the general audience, you think of how good the animated series was but you still have that bad taste in your mouth of the live action film. John has no bad taste.

The best choice is to bring in John Stewart or if you want Hal, bring back Ryan.

The other problem with Ryan is his ego. There have been rumors of Armie Hammer playing Batman, Gina Carson playing Wonder Woman, and Charlie Hunnam playing Flash. We know Cavil will be Superman. Add Ryan's name to the and he's the one who stills out like a sore thumb. Because of his popularity, he wouldn't fit it with the others. Casting an unknown like Chadwick Bowmen (who is with WB's and plays Jackie Robinson in 42) would fit.

The only problem with Hal not being back is of course, Geoff Johns. You kind of have to lock the doors of the room so he doesn't have any input like he did for Green Lantern. Look how that mess turned out.

Cast John Stewart Or Bring Back Ryan As Hal

 

[Pink Ranger]

I prefer Hal and Barry, frankly. Hal can be the team's "dude" character, whereas Barry can be the smart, unassuming and methodical member who just happens to have an extraordinary ability.

I can see Barry basically being like Ruffalo's Bruce Banner in non-action scenes.

 

[shauner111]

Barry and John.

 

[Kevin Smith]

From The Flash thread:

Charlie Hunnam's face and likeness is apparently being used for The Flash/Barry Allen in the Justice League film's concept art!

I know I've said Ryan Golsing, but he strikes me as a Gosling-esque actor and I think he'd be great for the part!


What do you guys think?

Don't know about you guys, but I see Barry Allen here!! And his eyes would look great in the red cowl, IMO! Sounds like WB's finally gettin' a good head on their shoulders with this!!!

It is no secret that Warner Brothers and Legendary Pictures are pleased as punch with director Guillermo Del Toro and his film Pacific Rim. The overall impression from the few test screenings that have already occurred has been very positive. The studio is high on the film and have already commissioned a script for a sequel. They are also all about continuing to be in the Guillermo Del Toro business. The companies have already locked GDT down for another project, Crimson Peak, which is already scheduled to shoot early next year (circa February, tentatively) after he finishes up his Pacific Rim duties and gets the ball rolling on his TV show (The Strain) for FX. Looking even further into the future, WB already has him working on doing the oft-mentioned supernatural superhero team-up Dark Universe (aka Justice League Dark) for them and Legendary Pictures has expressed interest in producing his Gothic western Dumas adaptation Montecristo on down the line (and maybe even At the Mountains of Madness). For the moment, things are truly looking up for Guillermo again.

Another bromance to come out of the Pacific Rim production is that of GDT and star Charlie Hunnam. Del Toro has already cast him in a leading role in Crimson Peak as well and it isn’t too hard to picture him transferring Charlie over again to Dark Universe. After all, he’s a young blonde Brit whom is experienced at playing antiheroes and has a good relationship with the director. He has John Constantine written all over him and I’d be shocked if the thought wasn’t already on Guillermo’s mind.

It seems that Del Toro isn’t the only one with a new-found infatuation for the Sons of Anarchy actor, however. Warner Brothers may have their eyes on Hunnam as well. According to a trusted industry source of mine, the current rumor on the block is that Charlie Hunnam’s likeness is being used for conceptual art on a particular big WB project right now. The film? Justice League. It seems that in the current pieces being drawn up, Charlie is The Flash. Now before we get carried away, let’s take a step back and think about the possibilities here…

#1 – WB is already in discussions with the actor.

While possible, I find it highly unlikely that they would already be attempting to cast one of the “lesser” hero roles in their inevitable super friend flick before they have worked out what the hell they are doing with Batman yet. Honestly, it really depends on when the hell they want this film to hit theaters. 2016? 2017?
#2 – WB is high on the actor right now and are having the artists use his likeness to help sell him on this idea.

This one is a good bit likelier, especially if they want to make JL sooner rather than later.
#3 – An artist (or artists) on the conceptual team is a fan and simply using Charlie’s likeness in their work.

This seems likeliest to me, though the idea could also be coming from a producer or someone else involved.
So what do we take away from this? Firstly, that WB is more than pleased with their July monster vs. robot actioner and that enthusiasm is pushing them to take elements they love within it and move them on to other properties. Second? That they might want to get into the Charlie Hunnam business, especially since the upcoming season of Sons of Anarchy that hits this fall will reportedly be the next to last one. With Hunnam’s schedule conceivably wide open come late 2014, it’s not hard to imagine at least someone trying to hoist him into Hollywood full-time.

Will we see Charlie chain-smoking and chatting it up with Swamp Thing and Etrigan the Demon in Del Toro’s Dark Universe? Or will we see him zipping about in red alongside Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter? It is simply far too early to tell. Any number of things could happen between now and then…from Pacific Rim and/or Man of Steel underperforming to Hunnam taking up residence elsewhere? Only time will tell. That said, it’s nice to get a picture every once in awhile of where exactly Warner Brothers and DC’s collective heads are at when it comes to bringing characters other than Batman and Superman to the silver screen?

http://www.chud.com/132182/exclusive-do-wb-dc-want-to-be-in-the-jax-teller-business/

Make it so, WB!

 

[Kevin Smith]

@Levi, Hal Jordan was also in the 2008 Justice League: The New Frontier animated movie. I consider that to be the best adaptation of Hal Jordan, non comics, so far, even tho it's set in the 50s/60s. It's pretty much his movie (much like how i'm hoping Flashpoint will be Barry's movie ).

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

@Levi, Hal Jordan was also in the 2008 Justice League: The New Frontier animated movie. I consider that to be the best adaptation of Hal Jordan, non comics, so far, even tho it's set in the 50s/60s. It's pretty much his movie (much like how i'm hoping Flashpoint will be Barry's movie ).

Well yes that is true, before 2011 we only had 2 animated movies (Justice League: New Frontier and GL: First Flight) and the Superfriends from like the 60s or 70s that showed the public who Hal Jordan is.

John on the other hand had 4 season of a highly successful show that kids watched and loved. He was also in Justice League: Heroes game.

The public knew John but not Hal.

 

[cleverusername8]

@Levi, Hal Jordan was also in the 2008 Justice League: The New Frontier animated movie. I consider that to be the best adaptation of Hal Jordan, non comics, so far, even tho it's set in the 50s/60s. It's pretty much his movie (much like how i'm hoping Flashpoint will be Barry's movie ).

Not to mention the other animated features JL: Crisis on Two Earths and JL: Doom. Both got a fair amount of attention from fans of the cartoon. So it's not impossible that they warm up to Hal. But "Levi" has a good point. We are far enough removed from the cartoon where nostalgia can factor into people going to see a Justice League movie. And the best bet would be targeting fans of the old show with the inclusion of John. Adds the diversity they'll want and distances it from 2011. Three solid reasons that are hard to argue against.

But Wally isn't too necessary in my opinion. He was a name & face after all. And Young Justice (cartoon) portrays him as a kid so people will think of him at Dick Grayson's level of age and heroism. So it would be alright to lay him to rest and bring Barry back into the public eye more than they already have (via video games, animated movies etc.)

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I think John should be in it. I don't want Cyborg because they will cut out Martian Manhunter if Cyborg is in it and I don't want MM gone.

We all agree that the cartoons were amazing and should be influenced on the big screen so why not include John and have a hint toward Hal. Next GL film could be a buddy copish film starring Hal and John.

 

[shauner111]

I'd like to see Del Toro direct JL and reunite Idris Elba and Charlie Hunnam as John Stewart & Barry Allen.

 

[cleverusername8]

I'd like to see Del Toro direct JL and reunite Idris Elba and Charlie Hunnam as John Stewart & Barry Allen.

But I feel like Del Toro will turn it into an occult psuedo-horror movie to fulfill his "artistic expression". That works and is all good for Dark Universe, but would prefer he stay away from regular Justice League.

Idris is a good fit though.

 

[brainchild81]

I'd like to see Del Toro direct JL and reunite Idris Elba and Charlie Hunnam as John Stewart & Barry Allen.

I'd be up for this too

It was basically an idea thrown about by editorial, the writer of GLC (the book John appears in mostly) caught wind of it and said he wouldn't write it, new writers came on board, the rumor got out and the new writers confirmed, that they don't have any plans to kill of John.

Sounds like another dumbass Didio idea. Glad the writers know better

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

To be fair, this was an occasion where Didio actually did nothing wrong. It's just there's now 5 earth based GLC members and John has been the least successful, the GL editors were trying to think financially and for once, long term.

Also, Elba could definitely bring to life the contemplative compassionate John Stewart, rather than the awful "grr,... I'm a soldier" version, and I'd like to see that. After Hal Jordan has been re-established, of course.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

To be fair, this was an occasion where Didio actually did nothing wrong. It's just there's now 5 earth based GLC members and John has been the least successful, the GL editors were trying to think financially and for once, long term.

Also, Elba could definitely bring to life the contemplative compassionate John Stewart, rather than the awful "grr,... I'm a soldier" version, and I'd like to see that. After Hal Jordan has been re-established, of course.

How has John been the least successful when a Green Lantern film was announced and everybody expected it to be his film and we find out its Hal. John is without a doubt the second most popular Lantern now a was the most popular Lantern until 2011 in the face of the GA. Yes you can use the comics but nobody reads them. Yes I do now but have you seen the sales? 8 million comics sold in Feburary of this year and that's Marvel + DC + anyone else. What is there 7 or 8 billion people in the world and at the most 8 million of them read it. That's low.

Can we say John is less successful than Baz? Baz has been around for only a year and he's more successful than John? Kyle hasn't really but major since the 90s. Guy is well a dick.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

How has John been the least successful when a Green Lantern film was announced and everybody expected it to be his film and we find out its Hal. John is without a doubt the second most popular Lantern now a was the most popular Lantern until 2011 in the face of the GA. Yes you can use the comics but nobody reads them. Yes I do now but have you seen the sales? 8 million comics sold in Feburary of this year and that's Marvel + DC + anyone else. What is there 7 or 8 billion people in the world and at the most 8 million of them read it. That's low.

Guess what? DCE only cares about the people reading their comics. So considering John has been in precisely nothing of note since JLU ended, and hasn't headlined a book since Green Lantern- Mosaic ended in 1994, the editors thought "Hey, since there are now 5 human GLC members, maybe we should off one so the books aren't so cluttered and we end up sacrificing quality?" and the answer they came to was unfortunately, and naturally, John.

Can we say John is less successful than Baz? Baz has been around for only a year and he's more successful than John? Kyle hasn't really but major since the 90s. Guy is well a dick.

Simon Baz isn't going to die any time soon though, given his creator and one of DCE's top dogs is going to be writing him in the main Green Lantern book (for a couple months), as a main character in the first big crossover in 2 years (very long in comics) and Justice League of America.

Also, Kyle has had his own ongoing title since 1994, interrupted only by Green Lantern: Rebirth, in which he was the secondary character. Guy Gardener has had his own series (Emerald Guardians) and is the main lead in Green Lantern Corps (through seniority on the title).