Comics Howard Mackie relaunch/Jenkins PP run compared to BND

[JJJ's Ulcer]

People do care about continuity because it gives some sort of cohesion to the characters' world.

Funny that you should mention that things should change or things get stale cause BND is re-hashing the 70s... talk about stale...

Also about Change... Fans who dislike OMD/BND are not against change, but against STUPID Change; which has been all that we've seen the past few years at Spidey-land... and all of these changes have been swept under the rug... proving that they were filler crap for the reboot (Which feels like a Stanic version of the Mackie Reboot)

Uh... "Stanic"?

 

[Miken Ayers]

People do care about continuity because it gives some sort of cohesion to the characters' world.

Funny that you should mention that things should change or things get stale cause BND is re-hashing the 70s... talk about stale...

Also about Change... Fans who dislike OMD/BND are not against change, but against STUPID Change; which has been all that we've seen the past few years at Spidey-land... and all of these changes have been swept under the rug... proving that they were filler crap for the reboot (Which feels like a Stanic version of the Mackie Reboot)

I'm against regression, not change. JMS's run brought about a lot of change that was flushed down the pooper the second he left.

 

[Miken Ayers]

Uh... "Stanic"?

I always love when people pick apart someone's typos instead of providing a counterargument. "You forgot the A in satanic! You're wrong, and you should die!"

 

[Blader5489]

I'm against regression, not change. JMS's run brought about a lot of change that was flushed down the pooper the second he left.

A lot of change that most people hated.

It amuses me how, now, JMS' run is looked back on so fondly by the same people who protested it. Morlun, organic webbing, the Iron Spider costume--all points of contention among fans years who are now asking for those very same story elements to return.

 

[Miken Ayers]

A lot of change that most people hated.

It amuses me how, now, JMS' run is looked back on so fondly by the same people who protested it. Morlun, organic webbing, the Iron Spider costume--all points of contention among fans years who are now asking for those very same story elements to return.

Everything will have complainers, but none of those things were contested nearly as much as BND. Also go to any board I posted on since JMS's run started. I never once complained about it. But if you didn't like it it has to be most people.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

A lot of change that most people hated.

It amuses me how, now, JMS' run is looked back on so fondly by the same people who protested it. Morlun, organic webbing, the Iron Spider costume--all points of contention among fans years who are now asking for those very same story elements to return.

I wanna keep those away but, they're a lot better than a Hellspawn May Parker and Charlie Brown: The not-so-Amazing Spider-Man-Child... with BRAND NEW Non-trans Fat Carb Free Diet version Classic Villains lite... like The Wannabe-Goblin, the Kraven the jailbait... Inverted colors Venom, etc.

But you're right... it seems funny that most of us who called JMS a "hack" are now defending him... but the "mighty braintrust" that had been planning this for years has fallen short... Rehashing the Mackie era... Wow!

 

[Styleshift]

A lot of change that most people hated.

It amuses me how, now, JMS' run is looked back on so fondly by the same people who protested it. Morlun, organic webbing, the Iron Spider costume--all points of contention among fans years who are now asking for those very same story elements to return.

Organic webbing was from Jenkins in Spectacular Spider-man.

The Iron Spider costume was designed by *you guessed it* Joey Q himself!
It was really just a quick plot device to lead into Cival War.

Morlun was a pretty sucessful idea. I think he was a victim of his own sucess, much like venom. I have a feeling JMS was forced to reboot Spidey into this mystical being, The other doesn't feel cohesive with "Coming home" at all...

 

[Styleshift]

That's it, shove me into the line of fire, why don't you. t: But seriously, given what I found about Robert Carr and you combine that with all the other references made towards One More Day in the Pappazzi arc, it seems more than mere coincidence.

But, back to the topic at hand, a guy named Julio Barone at one time did a compare and contrast to Mackie's reboot and Brand New Day on Scans Daily and there were actually quite a lot of similarities, especially with regards to the supporting cast. Basically, he makes a compelling case that Carlie Cooper is the shy and sweet young woman who has eyes for Peter, not unlike Gwen's cousin Jill Stacy did in the Mackie reboot. That Harry Osborn is in the same position Randy Robertson was--that of the club hopping divorce. And that, like Lily Hollister, Glory Grant serves as the club hopping divorce's token girlfriend and future ex-wife.

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/4803909.html

Wow that was a really good article. I guess marvel has been at rebooting Spidey back into a teen for a good while now huh?
One of my favorite moments is with Peter's coworker at the school. How she ordered cook books with his money and decided to try to get an autograph of him as Spidey later. Pete gave her one, on a vent. and told her if she could lift it out it was hers.

I know some people are like "where is all this praise for JMS coming from now?"

Thing is we all can agree that JMS' characters were very mature. Its a shame he disregarded alot of the supporting cast but he really put a great stamp on the character, love his direction or not.

I personally don't like the magic spider. but I am really going to miss the maturity he brought to the comics, and Peter was STILL funny and in character.

 

[The Bruce]

MJ's a **** because she's been with one other guy since she and Peter broke up who knows how long ago??

Ooookayyy?

I think MJ and Pete should just stay together. When I think about it, even though I love Spider-man, there’s not much left to do with the Character. I’ve been reading all my life and ALL books after the Stan run have just been retreading old ground. Sure have Norman do something really evil. AGAIN! I mean what’s left for this character?

 

[farmernudie]

Under JMS, Pete and MJ were written like a real couple.

Pete's character was funny yet grown up and still relatable.

There were a few storylines not that great under JMS, but the "whole" was good, and nothing in their to make me even think i'd want to give up reading my favorite character, at all.SIns Past...i just ignore it...

Difference is, it is easy to ignore one small comtained storyline.

Sins PAst didn't launch an entire new world or reboot based upon THAT horrible idea. IT came and went.

OMD/BND is a whole new world based around a new world created by a deal with the devil...!!

Pete and MJ are both out of character. AUnt May has now lost all character she had left. JMS was doing well with her character as well.

It changes history greatly (tho they want us to PRETEND it doesn't" and it regresses Pete into Archie, and turn Aunt May into Spawn or Gollum, not sure which, you can take your pick.

 

[Themanofbat]

b*tch, b*tch, b*tch....

<sigh>

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Under JMS, Pete and MJ were written like a real couple.

Pete's character was funny yet grown up and still relatable.

There were a few storylines not that great under JMS, but the "whole" was good, and nothing in their to make me even think i'd want to give up reading my favorite character, at all.SIns Past...i just ignore it...

Difference is, it is easy to ignore one small comtained storyline.

Sins PAst didn't launch an entire new world or reboot based upon THAT horrible idea. IT came and went.

OMD/BND is a whole new world based around a new world created by a deal with the devil...!!

Pete and MJ are both out of character. AUnt May has now lost all character she had left. JMS was doing well with her character as well.

It changes history greatly (tho they want us to PRETEND it doesn't" and it regresses Pete into Archie, and turn Aunt May into Spawn or Gollum, not sure which, you can take your pick.

Ok, then i pick Gollum.

 

[The Bruce]

But I'm crazy about "New ways to die" - Man is it great right now.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

But I'm crazy about "New ways to die" - Man is it great right now.

Agreed.

 

[Miken Ayers]

b*tch, b*tch, b*tch....

<sigh>

We'll shut up when they fix things.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Ok, then i pick Gollum.

But don't you want Aunt May to have that impossibly cool cape?

 

[Themanofbat]

We'll shut up when they fix things.

LOL.... somehow I doubt that.

 

[farmernudie]

Yeh, Aunt May should have a long flowing red cape now,...and she can hang out in alleys, making wheatcakes for hobos!

Or, if she is Gollum now....she could go around saying..."dirty hobbitses" when talking about Pete and MJ.

So, yeh, Aunt May...Gollum....or Hell-Spawn now?? She is kinda similiar to both really. Her life has been stretched out like spreading butter very thinly over bread, ala Gollum.

And she owes her life to satan...re-energized by hell power, like Spawn.

I think if Aunt May found out what Pete did, dealing with the devil, she'd clock her "prescious" in the face with a frying pan or something. Uncle Ben must be rolling in his grave.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

People do care about continuity because it gives some sort of cohesion to the characters' world.

Funny that you should mention that things should change or things get stale cause BND is re-hashing the 70s... talk about stale...

Also about Change... Fans who dislike OMD/BND are not against change, but against STUPID Change; which has been all that we've seen the past few years at Spidey-land... and all of these changes have been swept under the rug... proving that they were filler crap for the reboot (Which feels like a SATANIC version of the Mackie Reboot)

No people are against change they don't like. And instead of just saying, "Oh i don't like it." and stop buying they have to present their opinions as fact. as if their the guardians of Spidey's soul or something. And continuity is just another example of that, if you like a story/writer/direction continuity is a non-factor, when you don't like it then suddenly people treat it like gosphel.

Under JMS, Pete and MJ were written like a real couple.

Pete's character was funny yet grown up and still relatable.

No they weren't. MJ was a sex toy. When they got back together Peter see's her undressing and whispers to himself, "it's not cannon fire, it's my heart" Actually it was neither, it was his..ahem.. rooster. That's how she was presented, even he lead acting role had he wandering about half naked on stage. She was wrote as a domesticated, horny wife, who was an object od desire for another men. The "pefect women"

 

[Themanofbat]

And she owes her life to satan...re-energized by hell power, like Spawn.

Mephisto... not Satan... Mephisto... there is a difference.

No people are against change they don't like. And instead of just saying, "Oh i don't like it." and stop buying they have to present their opinions as fact. as if their the guardians of Spidey's soul or something. And continuity is just another example of that, if you like a story/writer/direction continuity is a non-factor, when you don't like it then suddenly people treat it like gosphel.

Exactly... like they think they're more honourable Spider-Man fans or something (Hey DACMan, I'm looking at YOU!!! ).



In spite of the fact that I've been reading Spider-Man monthly for over 33 + years, I've never claimed to be a "bigger" or "better" Spider-Man fan than someone who just started reading Spider-Man... sure, my knowledge may be a bit more extensive, but longevity does not make me a better fan... there is no level to being a fan of Spider-Man.

There have been many moments in the last 15 years that I didn't like concerning Spider-Man and I could have either stopped buying the books or just simply state my level of discontent. I'm glad I have never stooped to the levels the way some people around here are...

And the funny thing is that many of these posters will label their hatred/anger of what happened in OMD their passion for Spider-Man while I simply see it as an opportunity to complain on the internet and look like the Big Man at their Local Comic Shop.

 

[Styleshift]

I'm not sure things can even be fixed at this point. Spidey's history has been so messed up over the past years.

Marvel is really treating the character like a priceless glass vase that they broke while playing ball in their parents house, and are now trying frantically to put all the pieces back together.

I'm getting so tired of these reboots and plans to fix something thats not broken. It's made me feel totally uncomfortable with the character, and I know I'm not alone. I no longer know this character and its a pain to skip it when i go to pick up the books that are on my pull list. It feels like looking into an alternate MU.

Spidey is no longer a young man. He's at least 25 now.
Why treat him like he's suddenly 19 again?

They wanted him out his marriage, fine they finally got it. but BND feels sooooo constricted. I mean I DO like some aspects about the stories but at the end of the day
Ultimate Spider-man is currently a better alternative for a young Spider-man.

If we can't have a married Spidey lets at least keep the pace of NWTD.

 

[Styleshift]

There have been many moments in the last 15 years that I didn't like concerning Spider-Man and I could have either stopped buying the books or just simply state my level of discontent. I'm glad I have never stooped to the levels the way some people around here are...

You bought the Mackie run too?? .......

 

[Blader5489]

Everything will have complainers, but none of those things were contested nearly as much as BND. Also go to any board I posted on since JMS's run started. I never once complained about it. But if you didn't like it it has to be most people.

Actually, JMS' "Coming Home" story is one of my favorite Spidey stories of all time. So there goes that theory.

 

[Themanofbat]

You bought the Mackie run too?? .......

In my 33+ years of reading Spidey, I actually stopped once... right after they revealed Norman to be the mastermind behind the Clone Saga...
it was too much for me, so my last issue was ASM #421 (had been buying monthly since ASM #183)... though my first Spidey issue was ASM #148...

I looked at the comics every so often, but i saw nothing that made me regret my decision...

I came back with ASM #471 when I heard that thuis JMS guy was going to replenish Spidey's wheels... I read the first arc... thought it was ok, and I came back on board...

Of course, being the completist that I am (I did own ASM #1 to 421), so I sought out the missing 50 issues that I needed (and these were the Mackie issues)... and I was lucky to get them at a reasonable price, because of their low print runs, they are harder to find, hence, more expensive.

However, I can now claim to own ASM #1 to current...

 

[Themanofbat]

I'm not sure things can even be fixed at this point. Spidey's history has been so messed up over the past years.

Marvel is really treating the character like a priceless glass vase that they broke while playing ball in their parents house, and are now trying frantically to put all the pieces back together.

I'm getting so tired of these reboots and plans to fix something thats not broken. It's made me feel totally uncomfortable with the character, and I know I'm not alone. I no longer know this character and its a pain to skip it when i go to pick up the books that are on my pull list. It feels like looking into an alternate MU.

Spidey is no longer a young man. He's at least 25 now.
Why treat him like he's suddenly 19 again?

They wanted him out his marriage, fine they finally got it. but BND feels sooooo constricted. I mean I DO like some aspects about the stories but at the end of the day
Ultimate Spider-man is currently a better alternative for a young Spider-man.

If we can't have a married Spidey lets at least keep the pace of NWTD.

I think over the next 6 to 12 months, we'll see things fixed so that his history will be seen as "fixed" (or at least, as fixed as it can be... remember, there are things prior to OMD that were never addressed nor ever fixed, so it's not like Peter Parker had a clean 45 years of straight continuity... ther have been some contradictions prior to OMD).

And in my opinion (for whatever THAT's worth), I don't see him as acting 19 in the current books.

And again, that's merely my two cents...