Ha! Funny how you didn't quote my whole point in the exaggerating part. Proof you know I'm right... which means you're wrong! t: As for the strongest, Marvel could be referring to the general heros/villains, something you didn't deny before (though, you'll probably say you don't remember ). And don't forget, you thought the LT was the strongest! No, if someone has cancer they don't know it until it's confirmed by, let's say, a doctor? Same with understanding individual characters, you need it confirmed by comics and since you don't have any, it makes it obvious why you don't know the Hulk and Apco that well. See, still more excuses. It doesn't matter if it's the writer, what matters is what we read in the comics and Hulk is made to be better than Apoc. Sorry, but you lose again, fanboy! So what if Hulk lost to Spidey. Unlike Apoc, Hulk still often wins (including against Spidey)! Apoc has yet to be shown if he can match Hulk's limitless (possible) strength. Base strength, sure, Hulk's real angered strength, can't say. All we know is Marvel have stated Hulk as the strongest as the norm, not Apoc. And if Apoc could reach levels like you say, then why does he lose so much and Hulk doesn't? I believe I just closed this issue (in fact, did many posts ago but for the reading impaired.... ). Just to add, you're also too uneducated to realize that at the beginning of this debate, I actually said Apoc could win some because of the reasons you've been stating (though, not to the always high levels you state of Apoc). I just said I favor Hulk to win the majority which is my opinion just as you stated it's only your opinion on Apoc over Hulk. Unlike you , though, I actually have comics to back my stance as you've got nothing!