Hulk VS DC ?????

[Bapman]

Originally posted by Gimili
DC heroes are more powerful than Marvel ones, save the entities.
Saying Marvel doesn't go too far is no excuse. The fact is that Marvel doesn't give their heroes as much power. Deal with it.

Batman doesn't fight powered characters Daredevil style. He uses
his brain and clever plans thought through in advance. In the Marvel Universe, Dr. Doom, with his intelligence, has beat people the Hulk can't touch.

I explained before, Hercules could have (doesn't mean he did) held up the world according to myths that portrayed him inconsistently. The Hulk might do that, if he were angry for a few hours, but until then, forget it.

Onslaught wanted the Hulk to smash his body. He was not actively opposing the Hulk. Otherwise, the Hulk wouldn't have gotten to him. It is also notable that the Hulk was fresh off a power-up at the time.

The Hulk's strength is potentially limitless, but that doesn't make it as user-friendly as you describe. To dispute this point, you'll have to explain why the Thing, Thor, and Iron man can last a 1/100th of the time they do. Not even the Mindless Hulk's strength was as convenient as you describe it.

Fact is, with Superman's speed, he can take the Hulk out before he becomes strong enough to even lift a city.

Ok yes I do agree... HULK is "potentially" stronger but dude... how u HONESTLY belive tht HULK won't reach any other heroes strenth limit after a little brawl ???

Fine! ONSLAUGHT wanted him to break the armour BUT DUDE the fact remains... HULK did BREAK it... sssooo I think its NOT tht much difficult to imagine how STRONG he is.

Who has DR. DOOM beat th HULK can't touch ???

N dude... my example was tht Batman is an overrated character... he can do everything... which I think is just outright stupid. Regardless of a beforehand plan.

N No dude... I meant in MARVEL the power levels r completely differnt...
One hero has VERY little power... the others have TOO MUCH POWER !!!

And regarding the GALACTUS topic... ... ... dude ANYONE who thinks anyone can take on GALACTUS is just... well... I don't stupid... ... ...

BTW ONE QUESTION... wht about BEYONDER... can he take out GALACTUS ???

and here's n interesting point my FRND made...
Superman can come at super speed from a MILES away n hit HULK hard enough to send him to space.
HULK can thn die of suffocation... ... ... is that possible ???

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by CaptainStacy
"what's to stop GL from launching the Hulk into space" Why, the Hulk himself, of course. Hulk has crushed force fields before, including Dr. Strange's, the Sorceror Supreme of the Marvel Universe. If Hulk doesn't want to go anywhere, he's not going to. If it becomes a battle of wills, well, like I said earlier; GL will tire LONG before the Hulk does.

Super-strong speedsters lke Hyperion and Gladiator have BOTH taken out Wonder-Man with super-speed. Not sure what your point is about Spider-Man. He's Marvel, not DC. Besides, you're not suggesting Spider-Man could out-last the Hulk...are you?

Mark Waid sez Captain Marvel can't take a nuke. Go discuss it with him. Regardless; let's say Cap could withstand it. He STILL has to deal with an opponent with limitless strength and healing capabilities.

I agree, to some extent about the Marvel/DC mini series. Wolverine, Storm, Aquaman, and Batman should NOT have won their respective battles, but that's discussion for a whole DIFFERENT debate.

I've been reading JLA off and on for thirty years or so. I stopped shortly after the Tower Of Babel arc.

The Green Lantern's force fields can hold up to Amazo, who has the combined powers fo the entire JLA. Therefore, the Hulk will have to be mad for a while to break GL's concentration. Especially
since once he's lifted into the air, the Hulk's ability to fight against the pull decreases tremendously. Besides, a fraction of a second is all GL needs anyway. And this doesn't conflict with my earlier point about GL's reflexes, since this feat is equal to flying in a super-fast straight line.

I'm not suggesting that Spider-man could outlast the Hulk. All I'm saying is that Spider-man proved that speed is a valid weapon against the Hulk. When he danced circles around him, we saw multiple images of Spidey around the Hulk to indicate how well he
was doing it.

OK, Gladiator can and Hyperion did use their speed against certain people, assuming you're not leaving out certain facts. Was
he clearly attempting a speed-blitz against the Hulk?

Regardless of what some former JLA writer thinks, how can Captain Marvel take a Superman punch if he can't survive a nuke?

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by Bapman
Ok yes I do agree... HULK is "potentially" stronger but dude... how u HONESTLY belive tht HULK won't reach any other heroes strenth limit after a little brawl ???

Fine! ONSLAUGHT wanted him to break the armour BUT DUDE the fact remains... HULK did BREAK it... sssooo I think its NOT tht much difficult to imagine how STRONG he is.

Who has DR. DOOM beat th HULK can't touch ???

N dude... my example was tht Batman is an overrated character... he can do everything... which I think is just outright stupid. Regardless of a beforehand plan.

N No dude... I meant in MARVEL the power levels r completely differnt...
One hero has VERY little power... the others have TOO MUCH POWER !!!

And regarding the GALACTUS topic... ... ... dude ANYONE who thinks anyone can take on GALACTUS is just... well... I don't stupid... ... ...

BTW ONE QUESTION... wht about BEYONDER... can he take out GALACTUS ???

and here's n interesting point my FRND made...
Superman can come at super speed from a MILES away n hit HULK hard enough to send him to space.
HULK can thn die of suffocation... ... ... is that possible ???

If the Hulk's strength was that convenient, how can... about anybody brawl with him for an extended period of time? Why did Thor last long enough to realize that the Hulk's strength was increasing to no end. The fact is that it seems to be a more gradual thing. The Mindless Hulk was angry 24/7, but the pounding he gave the Silver Surfer was recovered from right after the Hulk left. Wonder why?

The Hulk was fresh off a power-up when he ripped into Onslaught. It didn't just happen because Onslaught allowed it.

Dr. Doom has beat the Silver Surfer, Galactus, the Beyonder, and a host of others. Please note that all the above guys can beat the
Hulk with ease.

The Beyonder was able to actually kick Galactus' ass. Galactus' powers are based on this galaxy; the Beyonder could just think away this galaxy.

Superman can survive in space. If properly portrayed, the Hulk's reflexes and speed are crap in comparison to Supes'.

 

[Guyverjay]

Dont know know what your on about, Doom never beat the beyonder. He stole the beyonder's power yes but then the beyonder tricked doom into giving it back,hardly a victory in my eyes. In fact Doom didn't beat Galactus or surfer either,he just steals their powers from them and then loses them again. I suppose they are kind of victories but he always loses his new found powers and ends up back where he started.

Oh yeah Doom battled the beyonder with Galactus's stolen power and even though he really didn't have a clue on how to use them he still managed to take beyonders powers away from him so I don't think a Galactus vs Beyonder fight would be as simple as you put it.

What power up are you taking about? I don't remember one could you tell me what happened?

Don't forget that all the fights your mostly talking about had various different incarnations of the Hulk. They aren't all the same one. Bannerless hulk can increase its strength probably a 100 fold in minutes. Yes Onslaught wanted his armour broken but your forgetting the fact that the X-men,Avengers,FF,Doom,Black panther and a host of others all attacking at the same time couldn't do it.

What about the heroes reborn Hulk that got his strength from a pocket universe?

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Being able to contain Amazo doesn't mean GL can contain the Hulk.

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by guyverjay
Dont know know what your on about, Doom never beat the beyonder. He stole the beyonder's power yes but then the beyonder tricked doom into giving it back,hardly a victory in my eyes. In fact Doom didn't beat Galactus or surfer either,he just steals their powers from them and then loses them again. I suppose they are kind of victories but he always loses his new found powers and ends up back where he started.

Oh yeah Doom battled the beyonder with Galactus's stolen power and even though he really didn't have a clue on how to use them he still managed to take beyonders powers away from him so I don't think a Galactus vs Beyonder fight would be as simple as you put it.

What power up are you taking about? I don't remember one could you tell me what happened?

Don't forget that all the fights your mostly talking about had various different incarnations of the Hulk. They aren't all the same one. Bannerless hulk can increase its strength probably a 100 fold in minutes. Yes Onslaught wanted his armour broken but your forgetting the fact that the X-men,Avengers,FF,Doom,Black panther and a host of others all attacking at the same time couldn't do it.

What about the heroes reborn Hulk that got his strength from a pocket universe?

Doom beats cosmic entities. Sure, he loses their powers back, but
that first victory remains intact.

If you think that Galactus vs. Beyonder is that competetive, then you need to read Secret Wars 2. In this series, it was revealed that he was more powerful than a bunch of entities, including the Living Tribunal.

The Hulk's power-up was Jean Grey turning off Bruce Banner's mind in the battle with Onslaught. That was how he was able to bust through the armor.

 

[Guyverjay]

Doom beats cosmic entities. Sure, he loses their powers back, but

There not true victorys, he steals their powers (most of the time behind their back without them even knowing till its too late) but he never beat them. If I stole your car does that mean I beat you? He merely inconvienced them.

If you think that Galactus vs. Beyonder is that competetive, then you need to read Secret Wars 2. In this series, it was revealed that he was more powerful than a bunch of entities, including the Living Tribunal.

I got the series, but what you fail to realise that DR Doom Stole the beyonder's powers using Galactus's powers to battle him. Now Dr Doom didn't have any experience with these abilities or have the vast god like knowledge of Galactus but managed to take beyonders powers away from him. So I think Galactus using his own powers would AT LEAST put up the same fight Doom did.


The Beyonder was later revealed to be only only 1 half of a cosmic cube,he was not more powerful than Living tribunal or any of the other entities. Yeah I know that doesn't make sense because in secret wars 2 he clearly had all of them scared stiff. But its in the continuity now.

The Hulk's power-up was Jean Grey turning off Bruce Banner's mind in the battle with Onslaught. That was how he was able to bust through the armor.

That isn't a power up thats just another incarnation of the HULK (mindless Hulk), that wasn't the first time that incarnation has been seen. The power has always been inside him along with all the other Hulk persona's Devil hulk etc etc.

In Secret Wars 2, #8: Beyonder searches for the Hulk and finds him in the desert. Hulk attacks the Beyonder. Beyonder puts the Hulk in stasis and begins to probe him. The Beyonder says of the Hulks inner potential:
"You are nothing but power incarnate! An infinity of power with no finite element inside!! Worse yet, you remind me of someone (refering to himself)

I got this from another site:

"The hulk however is not always uberstrong. His strength is dependent upon his current anger level. At times the Hulk can be just above the Thing. At other times the Hulk can reach levels beyond any of the other heroes (on rare instances). But it is a subconcsious matter and the Hulk cannot control when or how mad he gets. Its not up to him. Thats why he at sometimes isn't strong enough to win some fights. But *potentially* he can be strong enough to overcome pretty much anyone"

 

[web-slinger]

Originally posted by guyverjay
That isn't a power up thats just another incarnation of the HULK (mindless Hulk), that wasn't the first time that incarnation has been seen. The power has always been inside him along with all the other Hulk persona's Devil hulk etc etc.

Well, actually, I always kinda figured that the Hulk we saw after Jean Grey shut Banner 'off' was just the childish, raging Hulk we'd always seen. Banner had been in control of the Hulk persona, keeping it supressed until Jean Grey forced Banner's persona down, and allowed Hulk to resurface, because Banner could not acheive the same power level, or 'the madder he gets the stronger he gets' state that the child-like, raging Hulk can. The mindless Hulk didn't appear until after Banner had been completely and utterly seperated from the Hulk by the transformation of Onslaught, and then thrown into an alternate dimension by Franklin Richards after he jumped into Onslaught's psionic form.

 

[Guyverjay]

I don't agree, the amount of power displayed by that Hulk was unlike anything seen before. The normal hulk always wanted to be left alone and only fought when provoked. The bannerless hulk just tore into Onslaught without warning.

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by guyverjay
There not true victorys, he steals their powers (most of the time behind their back without them even knowing till its too late) but he never beat them. If I stole your car does that mean I beat you? He merely inconvienced them.



I got the series, but what you fail to realise that DR Doom Stole the beyonder's powers using Galactus's powers to battle him. Now Dr Doom didn't have any experience with these abilities or have the vast god like knowledge of Galactus but managed to take beyonders powers away from him. So I think Galactus using his own powers would AT LEAST put up the same fight Doom did.


The Beyonder was later revealed to be only only 1 half of a cosmic cube,he was not more powerful than Living tribunal or any of the other entities. Yeah I know that doesn't make sense because in secret wars 2 he clearly had all of them scared stiff. But its in the continuity now.




That isn't a power up thats just another incarnation of the HULK (mindless Hulk), that wasn't the first time that incarnation has been seen. The power has always been inside him along with all the other Hulk persona's Devil hulk etc etc.

In Secret Wars 2, #8: Beyonder searches for the Hulk and finds him in the desert. Hulk attacks the Beyonder. Beyonder puts the Hulk in stasis and begins to probe him. The Beyonder says of the Hulks inner potential:
"You are nothing but power incarnate! An infinity of power with no finite element inside!! Worse yet, you remind me of someone (refering to himself)

I got this from another site:

"The hulk however is not always uberstrong. His strength is dependent upon his current anger level. At times the Hulk can be just above the Thing. At other times the Hulk can reach levels beyond any of the other heroes (on rare instances). But it is a subconcsious matter and the Hulk cannot control when or how mad he gets. Its not up to him. Thats why he at sometimes isn't strong enough to win some fights. But *potentially* he can be strong enough to overcome pretty much anyone"

True, Doom does steal the entities' powers and leaves, but before
he does the latter, he clearly has to opportunity to erase their existances.

Doom's strategy for beating the Beyonder was one that Galactus
has never tried. It's also notable that the Doom nearly died in the battle. He may have been inexperienced, but he still had Galactus'
power.

I'll concede the argument about the Beyonder's power level. I should note, however, that this is the stupidest retcon this side of
Doom's "my losses were against Doombots" retcon.

The Mindless Hulk is more powerful than the Savage Hulk. Why? Because the Mindless Hulk's anger is far beyond any the Savage Hulk uses very much. Onslaught would have had to provoke the Savage Hulk for quite a while to be able to get out of his armor.

And it is worth noting that the Mindless Hulk performed way, way better against the Silver Surfer than the Savage version did.

 

[web-slinger]

Originally posted by Gimili
The Mindless Hulk is more powerful than the Savage Hulk. Why? Because the Mindless Hulk's anger is far beyond any the Savage Hulk uses very much. Onslaught would have had to provoke the Savage Hulk for quite a while to be able to get out of his armor.

I agree that the mindless Hulk was quite stronger than the savage Hulk, but I disagree that the Hulk we saw attack Onslaught had to have been the mindless one because it was able to crack Onslaught's armor. Think about it. Onslaught wanted his armor to be cracked. He knew he had reached a stage where if he could break out of his armor, he would become pure psionic energy. He may have looked like he was putting up a fight against Hulk, but in all reality, he wanted Hulk to batter him relentlessly. Therefore, its very possible the savage Hulk was the Hulk we saw fight Onslaught. It wasn't until Banner's persona was no longer a part of the Hulk (because they'd been seperated by the energies released when Onslaught transformed) that the mindless Hulk appeared, because the savage personality of the Hulk no longer had Banner's rationale to reign him in.

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by web-slinger
I agree that the mindless Hulk was quite stronger than the savage Hulk, but I disagree that the Hulk we saw attack Onslaught had to have been the mindless one because it was able to crack Onslaught's armor. Think about it. Onslaught wanted his armor to be cracked. He knew he had reached a stage where if he could break out of his armor, he would become pure psionic energy. He may have looked like he was putting up a fight against Hulk, but in all reality, he wanted Hulk to batter him relentlessly. Therefore, its very possible the savage Hulk was the Hulk we saw fight Onslaught. It wasn't until Banner's persona was no longer a part of the Hulk (because they'd been seperated by the energies released when Onslaught transformed) that the mindless Hulk appeared, because the savage personality of the Hulk no longer had Banner's rationale to reign him in.

It may be debatable, but it's still clear that even if this was the Savage Hulk, he still had plot devices helping him out against Onslaught.

 

[Guyverjay]

Jean Grey switched Banner OFF,as in gone he wasn't still active in the Hulk's subconcious. So I say it was The Mindless Hulk. People keep saying Onslaught wanted his armour broken which is true but the rest of Marvel couldn't do it. Hell Onslaught himself could even remove his own armour. Hulk did it!

 

[Gimili]

With a greater rage than can be utilized in a typical fight. The difference between the potential to do something at all and the potential to do something casually is about a hundred years.

 

[Spider-Hulk]

Plot devices? Every time the Hulk performs an impressive feat its just poo pooed, "plot devices" Onslought got his little sheel cracked by the Hulk, since the Hulk was the Banner Controlled Hulk during secret wars, when Jean Grey "turned him off" All she did was allow the Savage Hulk to regain control, if it was mindless Hulk why didnt he tear, thorugh everybody else? Why did he go straight for Onslaught. That was not a Power Up that is utter Bo11ock$ and you know it!

Hulk does not have "potential" for unlimited strength hes GOT IT! He held up a mountain, up rooted the blob, lifted mandarins castle, and many more! This is a guy whose whole powers come from strength. The strength thing is a subconscious element he gets as much strenght as is needed for each situation, thats how it works so im told, hence forth its limitless.

Quit taking credit away from Hulks acheivments.

As for beating Superman, he probably could if he had enough strength, although because of Supes' crazy power levels, Hulk and a vast number of other Marvel heroes would get their butts handed to them, by Supes

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by Spider-Hulk
Plot devices? Every time the Hulk performs an impressive feat its just poo pooed, "plot devices" Onslought got his little sheel cracked by the Hulk, since the Hulk was the Banner Controlled Hulk during secret wars, when Jean Grey "turned him off" All she did was allow the Savage Hulk to regain control, if it was mindless Hulk why didnt he tear, thorugh everybody else? Why did he go straight for Onslaught. That was not a Power Up that is utter Bo11ock$ and you know it!

Hulk does not have "potential" for unlimited strength hes GOT IT! He held up a mountain, up rooted the blob, lifted mandarins castle, and many more! This is a guy whose whole powers come from strength. The strength thing is a subconscious element he gets as much strenght as is needed for each situation, thats how it works so im told, hence forth its limitless.

Quit taking credit away from Hulks acheivments.

As for beating Superman, he probably could if he had enough strength, although because of Supes' crazy power levels, Hulk and a vast number of other Marvel heroes would get their butts handed to them, by Supes

Look, that was clearly a power-up. Even if what you're saying is true, he was fresh off his Mindless Hulk anger. Not the kind of anger that comes in a typical fight.

If the Hulk's strenght is infinite, regardless of his own anger, then how does... just about anybody survive punches from him. From how you describe him, the time the Silver Surfer took Hulk punches without being fazed is by far the worst portrayal of a character ever!

 

[Spider-Hulk]

The surfer is a cosmic entity a former herald of Galactus, hence forth hes got some serious powers, thats probably how he took punches from the Hulk, and if Hulk wasnt pumped up enough thats how he shook them off. SS aint a weakling, his base strength is 100 tons too. Silver Surfer has far more powers than the Hulk does, like I said all Hulks abilities are based on sheer Strength.

No Ifs buts or maybes the Hulks strength is unlimited.

No the Surfer taking punches is not bad writting he was just using his cosmic powers to shield him from them thats how he took the punches.

Anymore questions?

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by Spider-Hulk
The surfer is a cosmic entity a former herald of Galactus, hence forth hes got some serious powers, thats probably how he took punches from the Hulk, and if Hulk wasnt pumped up enough thats how he shook them off. SS aint a weakling, his base strength is 100 tons too. Silver Surfer has far more powers than the Hulk does, like I said all Hulks abilities are based on sheer Strength.

No Ifs buts or maybes the Hulks strength is unlimited.

No the Surfer taking punches is not bad writting he was just using his cosmic powers to shield him from them thats how he took the punches.

Anymore questions?

I know how powerful the Silver Surfer is. In fact, he, unlike the Hulk, would beat most if not all DC's flagship heroes. But the fact is that when he took the Hulk's punches, it was with his own durability. It was not due to altering his body to reject physical attacks or something.

And if you want, I can definitely give you a list of others who have
taken enraged Hulk punches.

 

[Daredevil-1]

I don't understand...Green Lantern would wipe the floor with the Hulk. I mean...the Hulk is green. Kyle (or Hal, or John, or freaking ANYBODY) would just pick him apart in seconds.

 

[JINoside]

Not really, even though GL has a lot of power with his ring, he wouldn't be able to contain Hulk if he tried. If he would try to fight him normally he would ovbiously be knocked back to last week . If he would try a shield or anything with the ring, Hulk would break it. So Hulk would beat GL. The power ring would probably run out of juice(as its done in the past) before Hulk even starts to get angry ..........

 

[Spider-Hulk]

Fine give me a list, it probably wont be very big, so go ahead it should make me chuckle if nothing else.

You know about the Surfers power huh? Then why did you bring him up if you already knew? Also not just anybody can take Hulk punches you know, only a select few could brawl with the Hulk and win. People have taken the punches and came back but they didnt just laugh them off you know.

Also that thing with Onslaught was not a power up as it was the Hulks own ability which did it, a power-up to me implies an external or foreign source of extra energy not contained within the charecter itself.

So get off your high horse pal, Hulk is the Strongest in the MU and like it or not, he can go toe to toe with the best of em.

By the Way what DC hero couldnt Hulk beat? Superman? Green Lantern(what a crap name)? The DC heroes are way over powered. Do you remember how Batman beat Hulk? He kicked him in the stomach causing him to breathe in sleeping gas, as if Hulks chest couldnt take a kick from an ordinary man? As if a sleeping gas could KO hulk too. DC are way over-pumped.

Also I highly doubt Silver Surfer could beat ALL of DC so called "Flagship" heroes.

 

[Guyverjay]

Surfer would beat all the JLA, not at the same time of course. I mean one on one.

 

[jan walenta]

I agree.

 

[JINoside]

Oh man that IS crap its a good thing i havent read that comic. Oh well, as it is with most comics heroes allways win and in that story i guess Batman was the hero. Hulk has been knoecked out a few times by gas but its allways been either some really strong ass gas(i mean really)or gas beign contained in a helmet covering Hulks face, even though its usually used to contain him not nessesarilly knock him out.......

 

[Gimili]

Originally posted by Spider-Hulk
Fine give me a list, it probably wont be very big, so go ahead it should make me chuckle if nothing else.

Thor
Thing
Spider-man
Wolverine
Abomination
Iron Man
Juggernaut

Big enough for you?

You know about the Surfers power huh? Then why did you bring him up if you already knew? Also not just anybody could take Hulk punches you know, only a select few could brawl with the Hulk and win. People have taken the punches and came back but they didn't just laugh them off you know.

I do know the Surfer's power. But if the Hulk is using infinite strength, literally nothing tangible can take his punches.

Also that thing with Onslaught was not a power up as it was the Hulk's own ability which did it, a power up to me implies an external or foreign source of extra energy not contained within the charecter itself.

Any way you slice it, the Hulk was using an amount of anger he couldn't possibly have in his usual fight. Plus, you have not addressed the fact that Onslaught wanted the Hulk to smash his armor.

So get off your high horse pal, Hulk is the strongest inthe MU whether you like it or not.

What does this have to do with anything? I haven't even made comparisons between the Hulk and his fellow Marvel characters in this thread.

By the Way what DC hero couldn't Hulk beat? Superman? Green Lantern(what a crap name)? The DC heroes are way overpowered.

I get that feeling myself at times, but this is not the place to mention it. If you say it when arguing who can beat who, I'm you come off like a crybaby.

Do you remember how Batman beat Hulk?

If this the usual power level Batman is at in your mind, then you obviously don't know much about DC. Bad writing happens at times. Spider-man beat the Silver Surfer. Should that have happened? Of course not.

And I highly doubt Silver Surfer could beat ALL of DC so-called "flagship" heroes.

One-on-one, he could. I never said anything about him beating all of them at once.