The Avengers Hulk Vs Thor - The Movie Edition

I think this comes down to which character each of us likes the most. If we like black panther then we will rationalize that he can beat anybody else in the MU. Obviously Hulk and Thor are in the same league with their base strengths. Though, bringing this back to the "Movie" versions, I think that they will give Hulk the advantage because I don't think they are focusing on Thor's raw power in these movies. It seems they deal more with Thor through his hammer's powers. Also, if Thor and Hulk are basically the same strength then there is no reason to have both on the team from a story standpoint.

I kind of is, why have one powerhouse on the team when you can have two?

Oh and juts because Marvel doesn't seem to focus on Thor's raw strength in the movies don't mean Hulk has the advantage because Thor's able to do some amazing things with Mjolnir.
 
I think this comes down to which character each of us likes the most. If we like black panther then we will rationalize that he can beat anybody else in the MU. Obviously Hulk and Thor are in the same league with their base strengths. Though, bringing this back to the "Movie" versions, I think that they will give Hulk the advantage because I don't think they are focusing on Thor's raw power in these movies. It seems they deal more with Thor through his hammer's powers. Also, if Thor and Hulk are basically the same strength then there is no reason to have both on the team from a story standpoint.

Kind of reminds me of the "Give Batman some prep time" agrument. Because no mater what he faces He'll all ways come up with a plan to beat it. At the end of the day it all comes down to how the writers want to write it.
 
I kind of is, why have one powerhouse on the team when you can have two?

Oh and juts because Marvel doesn't seem to focus on Thor's raw strength in the movies don't mean Hulk has the advantage because Thor's able to do some amazing things with Mjolnir.


Wow, and I thought I basically wrote that safe enough not to get you riled up about the whole subject....I agree that Thor is able to do MANY amazing things, BUT in the movie universe, which is what the whole thread is about, Hulk is going to be shown to have the strength advantage; he is going to be their ace in the hole; the unstoppable "juggernaut" of destruction that shield unleashes to turn the tides on loki's army. Trust me they will take a large page from the Ultimates for this part of the movie. When I say there is no reason to have two powerhouses I am strictly speaking in a screenplay format. Every character in a movie should feel wholly different and original and only exist to propel the story of that particular movie, otherwise you have no use for them. I am speaking ONLY from the movie perspective, this has nothing to do with the comics.
 
Kind of reminds me of the "Give Batman some prep time" agrument. Because no mater what he faces He'll all ways come up with a plan to beat it. At the end of the day it all comes down to how the writers want to write it.

Yep, I love Bats, but there are some things he'll never be able to do when fighting super-powered beings. He's got Wonder Wonder and Superman watching his back, and that's enough.
 
Wow, and I thought I basically wrote that safe enough not to get you riled up about the whole subject....I agree that Thor is able to do MANY amazing things, BUT in the movie universe, which is what the whole thread is about, Hulk is going to be shown to have the strength advantage; he is going to be their ace in the hole; the unstoppable "juggernaut" of destruction that shield unleashes to turn the tides on loki's army. Trust me they will take a large page from the Ultimates for this part of the movie. When I say there is no reason to have two powerhouses I am strictly speaking in a screenplay format. Every character in a movie should feel wholly different and original and only exist to propel the story of that particular movie, otherwise you have no use for them. I am speaking ONLY from the movie perspective, this has nothing to do with the comics.

Riled up? Really? :huh:

I think you should read my post again, because I was completely calm and simply making a point about Thor not needing to be as strong as Hulk to give him a good match in this film.
 
Oh and juts because Marvel doesn't seem to focus on Thor's raw strength in the movies don't mean Hulk has the advantage because Thor's able to do some amazing things with Mjolnir.

This is the part that made me think you got riled up. I do agree with you that Thor has basically a full arsenal of powers and abilities far beyond what Hulk has; no doubt. For the movie's sake though they should be separated into two separate distinct characters with their own motivations and their own strengths and weaknesses that aren't the same, otherwise it will make for a very boring movie. Oh, and all that really matters is when the time comes both will be together dishing out massive trauma to the enemy as brothers in arms.
 
by the way there was a statement earlier in here that stated Hulk picked up a humvee as the extent of his power in TIH....for clarification, that is not the heaviest thing he picked up in the movie. Check the rock he throws from the mountain during the storm. Proportions of the rock are similar to himself, so 9ft tall by 5ft wide by possibly 4ft deep. this is the equivalent of around 3.2m^3(cubed). Using limestone as an example solid it weighs 5744lbs per m^3 so 3.2m^3 would be around 18,400lbs + or -, basically double the weight of a humvee. Still, definitely nothing for the Hulk with a base strength of 100+tons
 
This is the part that made me think you got riled up. I do agree with you that Thor has basically a full arsenal of powers and abilities far beyond what Hulk has; no doubt. For the movie's sake though they should be separated into two separate distinct characters with their own motivations and their own strengths and weaknesses that aren't the same, otherwise it will make for a very boring movie. Oh, and all that really matters is when the time comes both will be together dishing out massive trauma to the enemy as brothers in arms.

Oh well I wasn't riled up in the least and I wouldn't be bothered if Thor's uses his vast array of abilities to match Hulk's strength advantage.

As long as Thor's superhuman strength is shown alot more than his solo film I'll be happy, I really don't mind Hulk being the strongest member as long as Thor is shown as being the most powerful.
 
Then why does Flash never use that on the likes of Doomsday, Darkseid, Imperiex, etc? Why is it always Superman who is the last one standing against foes like these.

Because Superman is Superman. That really is it. That's how comics work.
 
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You forgot to put the / in the closing quote.
 
I give Thor a HUGE advantage over the Hulk. Per all of their previous fights:
* Thor is one of the strongest beings in Marvel
* He has thousands of years of battle experience; the Hulk does not
* He is trained in various forms of combat; the Hulk isn't
* His main weapon is one of the most powerful weapons in existence; the Hulk doesn't have a weapon
* Thor's mind is more rational, more tactical, clearer, and Thor is typically portrayed as smarter than the Hulk
* Thor can fly; the Hulk can't
* Thor can summon lighting; the Hulk can't
* Thor's fans claim he's far faster than the Hulk
* Thor can control the weather; the Hulk can't
* Thor has a myriad of exotic powers he can summon via Mjolnir; the Hulk doesn't

So, every time these two fight, Thor should easily contain or dispatch the Hulk.

But, historically most of their fights are pretty even.

So...the only conclusion is that the Hulk *has* to be way stronger than Thor to even hope to keep up with him. This conclusion is further strengthened when you realize that Marvel has been saying that the Hulk has the potential for limitless strength for 50 years.

All of that is true. But the only conclusion is... the writers want it that way. That is it. The writers want their fights to be even, so they are. But on paper when you stack up Thors and Hulks feats and powers, Hulk shouldn't be any problem at all. Thor could just dump Hulk into another dimension or the heart of the sun. But that would make for a really boring fight and that isn't in Thor's nature. So they usually just slug it out.

That is how comics work, for every character/fight.
 
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Strength, but really nothing else (other than the crazy healing factor and endurance). Strength alone shouldn't be able to keep a character like Hulk in the game for a long period of time with an opponent like Thor (who's far more well-rounded).

Yet Mangog uses only strength and owns Thor on a regular basis.

In the early days, the UFC had no weight classes, so at times a fighter would have to take on another fighter who was three weight classes bigger. The results varied because of the takedown, of course, yet we still get dramatic examples with Fedor, Aldo, Edgar, GSP, etc.

While not exactly on topic, this short article was pretty insightful (there are a couple F-bombs in it, so be forewarned):
http://projectmayhem.com.au/?p=104

Hulk's 'unlimited' strength (rage and anger is not unlimited though) attribute compensates for the character's limited range of superpowers and intelligence.

So you can believe that a man can turn green, that his strength is unlimited, but you simply can't accept that his rage is? Ah.

Although Hulk's attribute was never introduced years after the creation of the character, it still relates to the shortcomings of the writers.

This was introduced in the very first year of his creation, when he had only one writer--Stan Lee. Stan didn't throw that in because of something he lacked as a writer.

But on paper when you stack up Thors and Hulks feats and powers, Hulk shouldn't be any problem at all.

The Hulk never read those papers, apparently. :oldrazz:
 
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Yet Mangog uses only strength and owns Thor on a regular basis.

True.

So you can believe that a man can turn green, that his strength is unlimited, but you simply can't accept that his rage is? Ah.

Rage and anger are always limited. In fact, for The Hulk to be enraged for more than 20 minutes straight, that in itself would have to be a superpower -- similar to Batman never killing a murderer or psychotic maniac hellbent on destroying the city.

This was introduced in the very first year of his creation, when he had only one writer--Stan Lee. Stan didn't throw that in because of something he lacked as a writer.

Personally, I thought it was a bit overcompensative. That attribute never sat well with me. And I'm not the first to debate this. Hulk is nearly invincible and that disinterests me when arriving to his comics (the same thing with Superman).
 
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Mangog >>> Hulk btw, I'm pretty he would own Hulk as well

Thor also has a few victories of Mangog as well, not man but victories nevertheless.
 
i read a quote from Stan Lee a few years ago, i have no idea where though, but he talked about how when he created Thor he wanted him to the be the strongest character. has anybody else seen that? i wonder what made him change his mind to the hulk
 
i read a quote from Stan Lee a few years ago, i have no idea where though, but he talked about how when he created Thor he wanted him to the be the strongest character. has anybody else seen that? i wonder what made him change his mind to the hulk

I think Hulk's popularity and schtick as being the "strongest there is", pretty much caused most of Marvel's writers to throw it out of the window.
 
i read a quote from Stan Lee a few years ago, i have no idea where though, but he talked about how when he created Thor he wanted him to the be the strongest character. has anybody else seen that? i wonder what made him change his mind to the hulk

He created comic Thor as an answer to Superman. It was like Superman was god like but Thor is a god! So lets use Thor. I think he was gonna use Hercules but he said Hercules and Greek mythology was over used.
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Superman is also far faster than anyone on the Avengers

Not hardly.

Photon_003.jpg


And being a former police officer, Monica is much better trained than ANYONE who has ever run with the mantle of "The Flash".

(Allen was a police lab guy)
 
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You can thank Peter David for that.
The classic Savage Hulk wasn't really shown with that uber-healing factor; instead, he had nigh-impenetrable hide.

And Wolverine was shown walking around as a skeleton.
The Hulk has never (thankfully) been shown doing anything that ridiculous.

ufoesskinhealth1.jpg
 
I think Hulk's popularity and schtick as being the "strongest there is", pretty much caused most of Marvel's writers to throw it out of the window.

I would say popularity was a big factor, despite them being out around the same time, Hulk has always been the more popular character. Until possibly now.
 
i read a quote from Stan Lee a few years ago, i have no idea where though, but he talked about how when he created Thor he wanted him to the be the strongest character. has anybody else seen that? i wonder what made him change his mind to the hulk

Probably it was his intention in the beginning, howev eyer this was never shown to be the case. From their early fights, written by Stan himself, they were always displayed as pretty evenly matched.
Honestly, I don't think anyone here can say Thor should be easily beat him, as it was never the case since their creation.
 
It is a good match, and I love them both... That being said, I believe Thor would put up a good fight, but just as any good fight... This would become a Mike Tyson type of fight. Thor would be fine unless he took a good shot, then it would be goodnight Irene! Not to mention I believe that Thor would be a little cocky thinking he's fighting just another Frost Giant. I know that's how I'd write it. Plenty of room for give and take though...
 
Rage and anger are always limited. In fact, for The Hulk to be enraged for more than 20 minutes straight, that in itself would have to be a superpower

This is kind of the go-to argument in regard to the Hulk’s dynamic rage/strength power. My take is that people get it wrong when they think of anger directly. Anger is the stimulus that makes the Hulk adapt. This adaptation can be ongoing; you don't need to have infinite anger--just keep getting the stimulus that caused the anger.

For example, let's say while you're stopped at a red light, someone rear-ends your car at an intersection. Initially the fact that some guy in essence hit a parked car (yours) makes you really angry. You get out of your car to exchange info, and the guy is a real jerk and blames you for the fender-bender. While it isn't anywhere near as threatening as the initial collision, I'd guess that there's a chance you'd get angrier. Now say this guy flips you off. Of the three events (accident, blame, gesture), it's the weakest of the three; HOWEVER, I'm guessing that there's a possibility that you'd get angrier still. If there were a limit to anger, then one would think that the initial collision be the maximum adrenaline induced rage that one could attain out off the three--but I think it's pretty clear that continued stimuli can maintain and even increase one's anger in a given situation, even if the cause is markedly less stimulating than the first.

Fortunately, you're not the Hulk, because in the example above your strength would multiply by several factors due to this continued anger stimulus and the guy that ran into you (let's call him D. Blake), would end up smashed. ;)

The Hulk's strength has been shown to grow exponentially (that's way more than double or triple); it has been shown to grow geometrically by the second.
The Hulk is a psychological manifestation of pure rage given physical form by gamma rays. If the comics say he has infinite rage (and they do), then he has infinite rage.



Hulk is nearly invincible and that disinterests me when arriving to his comics (the same thing with Superman).

Fair enough. I have no problem with that. I don't care for Superman for the same reason. But the difference I see is that Superman seems like he has all the powers, while the Hulk only has one. Plus, he has a huge host of weaknesses to exploit. The Hulk isn't invincible. He's lost to people with less than 10% of his strength (Spider-Man, for example), which proves what I've said all along: superior strength ≠ victory.

i read a quote from Stan Lee a few years ago, i have no idea where though, but he talked about how when he created Thor he wanted him to the be the strongest character. has anybody else seen that?

I've seen people say this all the time, but no one could ever show me in print where he said this. I've read dozens of interviews with Stan where he says he wanted to make a character more powerful than the Hulk, but not "stronger".

I'm glad Smashlilman posted that video of Stan, though; I've never seen it. But, again, in it Stan says that Jack Kirby said, "bigger". Well, Thor was never bigger than the Hulk (even the handbooks have the Hulk weighing at least 400 pounds more than Thor and being taller, too). And Kirby always drew Thor smaller than the Hulk. So, like most things, the planning stage has some differences from the final product.

i wonder what made him change his mind to the hulk

I don't think Stan changed his mind; Stan gave Hulk the madder/stronger power, not Thor. If Thor's strength is static and the Hulk's is dynamic, then that means the Hulk has to be stronger than Thor. If you were fighting a clone of yourself, but the only difference was that your clone could make himself stronger...then your clone is stronger than you.



The Hulk clearly still has muscles visable.
Wolverine was walking around as a bare skeleton with no visible muscle fibers.
And, again, I was never in favor of ditching the classic Hulk powers for this uber-90's kool healing factor.
 
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