Discussion in 'Marvel's The Avengers' started by jaqua99, Aug 27, 2012.
Don't forget that he made it rain right before he attempted to reacquire Mjolnir.
Agreed. And Physical CGI has nothing to do with their strength. I disagree with the Thor part though. Hulk wasn't holding back. He almost killed BW.. And secondly, it was an unwanted change. He didn't want it, and changed against his will. He was manipulated by Loki. Got wound up. So this Hulk was very out of control. I thought they made that clear. Thor was the one holding back, him in his solo movie, especially during that Frost Giant fight was more impressive than what I have seen Hulk do. He did not fight this, cut loose in the avengers movie, and he was able to destroy what seemed like, at minimus, a city size amount of land in Jotunheim with a lightning charged hammer strike to the ground.
I disagree. Who is to say Abomination fight Hulk couldn't have stopped the dragon thing? I mean, our punch force is a much great pounds of force per square inch, than the amount of weight we can life. So him punching the dragon (and not even killing it for that matter) certainly does not make him stronger. What else has he done in the movie? Not too much. Taking on Abomination, who was clearly MUCH stronger than him at the beginning shows how much stronger he got. At that point, that version of him could have stopped the dragon worm thing in its tracks as well.
Appearance doesn't have anything to do with strength. Those vehicles are heavy. And it was in the beginning, as he was getting angrier. What heavy objects did we see Hulk lift in the Avengers? All I can recall is the airplane wing, which is much lighter than an artillery vehicle. Like I said, our punch force is significantly greater than the amount of weight we can lift. Sure, Hulk punched the dragon, stopping it. But NO WAY would he be able lift that thing. Based on how strong Abomination seemed to be, and How strong Hulk got to physically over power him, he could stop the dragon as well.
Remember, punch force =/= lifting strength
Well, for the final battle he was controlled. But don't forget, in the Helicarrier he didn't want to change. He was influenced by Loki, and changed against his will. That, with the whole point of, "the hulk could tear this place apart" (as could Thor, mind you), is that at this point, Hulk was not in control
Majority of the fight, Abomination was simply way stronger.
Yeah, but how can you think it looked dead? It didn't bleed, you couldn't see its face, all it did was collapse on itself.
i didn't know if that was him. was it?
I was talking about Hulk being stronger in Avengers.
He also made it rain at the strip club on his way to Manhattan.
Oh yeah definately, Hulk seemed alot stronger and tougher in The Avengers.
I don't care how strong Abomination and TIH Hulk "may" have been, the fact of the matter is they didn't DO anything as impressive as TA Hulk
Taking everything into account, it doesn't matter how Hulk seemed, given everything I've stated.
No. that is not the fact of the matter. They didn't NEED to. And The fact of the matter is my evidence I presented supporting my theory that Hulk was stronger in TIH at the end than he was in TA. Also that this evidence, with everything taken into account proves the fact that, them not "doing anything as impressive", is irrelevant, given everything I have presented. ranking the Hulk's strength in order, and taking EVERYTHING into account to do so man, not just wow factors, that is why I made this thread. I spent about a half hour to fourty minutes thinking about this, which is why I created the thread. I literally do not mean to sound like a dick at all here, let me simply ask, did you read the analysis in my original post? Maybe not, given we are on the second page, cause it was long as hell lol. But basically in a nutshell..(yes. all this below is just a nutshell -_-)
Abomination kicking Hulk 400 feet away is more impressive than Hulk punching thor 150 feet away.
And the Hulk that punched Thor seemed angrier than Hulk during the final fight, therefor based on what we know of the character, he was stronger. (my reasons, I presented in my opening post) Using this logic, Abomination was stronger than Hulk during the Thor fight, who in turn, was stronger than final fight Hulk. Which was the Hulk who did that "impressive feat"
TIH hulk got stronger than the abomination. Just because Hulk stopped the dragon, and it was "impressive" that suddenly doesn't mean that he was stronger. This thread was made for ordering the strength of the Hulk in the MCU. I gave my evidence, judging based on who was more impressive, is not nearly enough to prove my theory wrong. Yes Hulk stopping it was MORE impressive. However, using my evidence, I could say that it is a FACT that Hulk from TIH and abomination were capable of doing so.
With all that in account, in a nutshell, Hulk punching Thor away 150 feet, and Abomination kicking Hulk ( much heavier) away like 400 feet, to me shows clearly that abomination is stronger than final fight hulk. And at the end of that fight, Hulk was stronger than abomination.
That is my logic.
I am asking for a rebuttal to that lol.
I am sort of in a hurry, since I am having some buddies over, but if you'd like, I can type out a bigger longer more detailed response supporting my theory, because I don't believe my evidence has been countered yet, so if ya want, I will type out a full detailed analysis later.
the fact that Avengers Hulk was "more impressive" simply is irrelevant based on my analyzing evidence I presented which takes everything into account.
I have no way of directly refuting this, but keep in mind he had no access to any of his powers up til this point. The rain might very well have been coincidence in that scene.
on the other hand, the rain was more likely caused by him when he landed on the Quinjet after they apprehended Loki in Germany.
All in all, I think my opinion is that I enjoy that his "weather powers" are subtle and well portrayed and he doesnt rely on them over his other abilities. personal opinion.
I can't remember any of the creatures bleeding, doesn't mean it wasn't dead. The armored skull was crushed in and it's jaw was hanging crooked.
What would be likelier cause of death? Massive truama to the skull and brain or damage to the tail and back?
I'm going to say flat out that the punch killed it and Tony merely stopped it's corpse from crushing the other Avengers. But whatever you can believe what you like.
I was talking about Thor in his first movie. When he goes to get Mjolnir back while its surrounded by SHIELD agents.
I didn't say i believed it. I just asked how it looked dead. Is all.
Secondly, if I believed it, its wrong?
You are making it sound as if it's a fact that it killed it. We can't be so sure. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't.
Given the circumstance, it likely did, basically my point is, looking at the creature, you couldn't tell it was dead
From an in story perspective you are right - they are the same Hulk.
However from a perspective that acknowledges the outside world its not hard to see why people think the Avengers Hulk was much stronger. In Hulk 2003 there really wasnt anything that really stood up to Hulk physically until he fought his Dad and that was a pretty amorphous threat. But until then Hulk was growing much bigger and more powerful whenever things got threatening, if anything could even hurt him he had a Wolverine style healing factor etc.
When Hulk 2008 rolled around Arad/Feige/Hurd/Norton/Leterrier/Penn et al wanted to show a different Hulk to the one that Ang Lee depicted.
Their was a lot of talk about how they wanted the Hulk to be threatened and vulnerable in this film. Hence the Abomination fight. No healing factor etc.
From what Whedon has said he didnt really care much for what Penn/Norton/Leterrier did and he and Feige set about reinventing the Hulk and Banner for the Avengers without much care for what came before. This time there didnt seem to be any big concern with toning the Hulk down powerwise. The result is to my mind a Hulk who seems in many ways closer to the Ang Lee Hulk than to the 2008 Hulk. And its definitely a Hulk who seems more powerful.
As for Hulks anger i dont think theres been any mention of it effecting his strength in the new movies. Yes there were hints of it in the Abomination battle and the scene with the sound cannons but nothing that didnt just look like plain old heroic determination. So honestly I'm not really sure if Feige or Whedon would consider the Hulk to be massively different in power from scene to scene. It might be addressed in the sequels but for now its a bit of an open question IMO as to whether MCU Hulk has much of a rage/strength dynamic.
I think that is how they portrayed it. Unfortunately, it is a continuous universe. So because they showed him get stronger with anger in TIH, we have to assume that is just how Hulk is. And because of what we saw abomination do to hulk (preferably kicking him away 400 feet) and what we saw hulk do to thor (punching him away 100 or 150 feet) it is fair to make a strong guess that abomination was stronger than Hulk fight Thor. Given what we know about Hulk, logic tells us he was strongeer when he fought Thor. Who in turn was weaker than abomination. Who in turn was overpowered by Hulk at the end.
So there is my conclusion
Agreed. As an even more egregious example, at least to me, in both Captain America appearances, he seems much weaker than Blonsky was pre-Abomination in TIH.
I think in terms of canon, TIH is basically the black sheep of the MCU anyway, as it could be viewed in certain terms as the least successful, given the stature of the character and relative to what they expected moving away from Ang's creation.
Cap was leaping over cars, punching through subarime glass, and fighting a Norse God (Loki).
I just feel Blonsky's abilities seemed more impressive, possibly because they were coming against the Hulk in a one on one confrontation. Cap was leaping over cars, Emil was doing acrobatics over the Hulk. Cap was fast, but again Emil was outmaneuvering & outrunning (what's supposed to be anyway) one of the faster creatures in the Marvel Universe. Cap was struggling with Red Skull (and some grunts in TA ) while the Hulk could barely touch Emil.
And when he finally did, Blonsky withstood a 1989 Hulkamania boot to the sternum, got wrapped around a tree, presumably broke almost every bone in his body, and was back in no time. Once again, one must consider the circumstances and opponents, but cinematic-ally, if you will, Emil just seems a little stronger overall than Cap, to me.
Yeah I am with BT on this one. I don't get how he wasn't as strong
Actually Captain America wasn't struggling with the grunts I think he gave up on purpose so that they would take him to the Red Skull. It makes since that Cap would struggle fighting the Red Skull since the movie Red Skull is also a Super Solider which would make him Cap's equal. The main problem with CA:TFA is that the action was poorly Choreographed.
Actualy Captain America in the Avengers was on or Above Blonsky's level. Its just that the fighting sequence that had doing Blonsky level things was so short and and so distant in the screen shot that most people didn't get to savor it. Captain America ran up the side of a car; jumped 10 feet up in the air; through his shield to take out one Chitauri solider; caught it mid air in his other hand & came down on another Chitauri solider that split him in half; jumped 4 feat off the ground to do a round house kick that sent yet another Chitauri solider flying off the bridge; and lastly braced himself to deflect Iornmans Repulsors blast.
Captian America action sequence close up and slowed down
best part of that final fight. The camera was watching ironman, but if you put your eyes to cap, he is doing some pretty impressive athletic things.
Banner definately had some control over the Hulk at that point, hence why he was able to land in a building with no people in so he wouldnt hurt anyone. The guard even points this out to Banner once he wakes up. So I agree that
Plus, how do we know he was going to kill BW? All he did was rough her up a bit and then when he got her in a corner all he did was roar at her then Thor tackled him, we will never know if he was going to kill her or not.
This slow down video is great and I hope we get tons more action like that in his solo. t:
Yeah in my view it seemed that Hulk had his hand drawn back and was about to back hand her, but it appeared that he was hesitating, or contemplating if he should or wanted to. I thought it was showing Bruce trying to break through and control it.
Okay. Well. What? He hit her, I saw it as, he had his hand up, he just ran into a wall, and he was waiting to see if she was going to try anything.
Secondly, "why he was able to land in a building with no people in it so he wouldn't hurt anyone."?????? uhm...what? Hulk can't fly. He was On top of the jet, the jet blew up. He fell off the jet due to it blowing up. When you are falling from the sky, unless you can fly, you can't choose where you are going to land dude, or change direction. He jet blew up, he fell, and happened to land in that building. I don't get where you are getting it from.
Secondly, the point was that he didn't have control. There were too many factors, Loki manipulating them. Him being against it.
He didn't have control. He may have been able to see, but didn't have control.
That was the point of the scene, that it was basically an out of control Hulk.
I don't think so. The point of him controlling was in the final fight. Given all the prior events, you knew the helicarrier hulk outt was going to be out of control. He had his hand back, I think he was just preparing, watching her, see what she was going to do.
Banner was not in control in this scene guys.
The proof shows it.
Secondly, I am pretty sure it has already been stated in a different article as well, stating the differences between Helicarrier Hulk and final fight Hulk
He's getting it almost verbatim from Banner's conversation with the security guard.
Did Joss just give the security guard the line, "Or just good aim. You were awake when you fell." to throw us off?
From someone with some experience sky diving, let me just tell you you're wrong and leave it at that.