Human Condition

[JLBats]

There's also the likelihood that one of the shooters asked young Cassie Bernall, "Do you believe in God?", and shot her dead when she replied, "Yes".

That's been said to be false by nearly every survivor who was in that room at the time. Don't spout it to support your cause, that's disrespectful.

 

[BlackLantern]

That's been said to be false by nearly every survivor who was in that room at the time. Don't spout it to support your cause, that's disrespectful.

...didn't her mom use that as the title of a book or something??

Why do we as humans only act when something seriously tragic happens?.....it seems to be the only time, we as a group, seem to really "care"

 

[Moviefan2k4]

That's been said to be false by nearly every survivor who was in that room at the time. Don't spout it to support your cause, that's disrespectful.

Different students from that school both confirmed and denied it happening, at different intervals of time. As such, I guess no one can say for certain what really happened. I personally believe it happened, but I don't know for sure...and the same applies to what evolutionists teach. They believe the Earth is 4.6 billion years old, but they don't know it. Both evolutionism and creationism are religious in nature. If we're going to teach science in schools, let's give both views equal standing, or else stick to what we can visually prove.

 

[The Senator]

It definitely challenges Christianity for starters. The Biblical dates from Adam to Joseph (Jesus' adoptive father) add up to just over 4,000 years, and the Book of Genesis clearly states that Adam was created on the sixth day of Creation, which started "in the beginning". Assuming that our current clandar is even 1,000 years off at most, that's still just over 7,000 years...which is way off from the 4.6 billion which many evolutionists say is fact.

And the Bible also claims that a TALKING SNAKE helped contribute to the fall of man, so I don't necessarily think that book is reliable when it comes to any sort of science. This includes dating.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

And the Bible also claims that a TALKING SNAKE helped contribute to the fall of man, so I don't necessarily think that book is reliable when it comes to any sort of science. This includes dating.

the serpent spoke in Genesis because it was either influenced or posessed by Satan (probably both). He used the serpent as a vessel, to decieve humanity into rebelling against God.

 

[Moon |つき|]

I don't think anyone will ever be able to truely answer this question until death. I don't believe that anything is random. The belief that things are random leaves the option of us not having any purpose at all. There is an answer, but it is just unattainable as long as we are alive.

As long as we are living I think people should just do what they want with their lives, and when they die, if there is nothing, it wouldn't matter what happened. That would mean I was wrong, and things are random. (I don't see how such a complicated being could be random) Either way, if there is nothing it wouldn't matter what future generations do or deal with because they will die and the same thing will happen to them. If there is something after death I'm sure you will find your purpose then. How could an all-knowing God condemn someone who didn't know what to do? The way that Christians explain him he is supposed to be forgiving anyway.

November Rain, I think you give a good answer but you are taking an altruistic approach. Some people just aren't altruist. Also, how do we know there will be future generation after us? What if there aren't?

I am not skilled in any of these areas, so your correcting me is appreciated. :3

 

[The Senator]

Different students from that school both confirmed and denied it happening, at different intervals of time. As such, I guess no one can say for certain what really happened. I personally believe it happened, but I don't know for sure...and the same applies to what evolutionists teach. They believe the Earth is 4.6 billion years old, but they don't know it. Both evolutionism and creationism are religious in nature. If we're going to teach science in schools, let's give both views equal standing, or else stick to what we can visually prove.

The difference between evolution and creationism is that evolution is actually based in scientific thought, and that there is evidence which SUGGESTS evolution is the best theory to describe where we come from. Evolution involves scientific study, carbon dating, research, and a lot of other scientific processes. It is a theory, yes, but one based in sound scientific research.

What does creationism entail? A magic man in the sky created everything! He just closed his eyes, snapped his fingers, and... VOILA! Everything was created!

That's not science AT ALL. That is mystical, supernatural mumbo-jumbo and it has no place in a scientific classroom whatsoever. If you want to teach creationism in PUBLIC schools, then it ought to be taught in an OPTIONAL religious theory class. It has no place in a scientific setting, because creationism is anti-science and completely undermines the scientific process by claiming that everything functions as the result of a magic man's crazy impulses.

If we start teaching creationism in a biology class, then we had better start teaching potions, magic and Jedi thought as well, considering they are just as intellectually sound as creationism is.

 

[Eggyman]

the serpent spoke in Genesis because it was either influenced or posessed by Satan (probably both). He used the serpent as a vessel, to decieve humanity into rebelling against God.

lol

Sounds like Harry Potter.

 

[The Senator]

the serpent spoke in Genesis because it was either influenced or posessed by Satan (probably both). He used the serpent as a vessel, to decieve humanity into rebelling against God.

You mean God created the serpent to trick mankind into sinning, and used the serpent as a scapegoat for his own wrong-doing.

That, my friends, is a true component of the "human condition": lie about when we've made mistakes, and pass the blame on to someone or something else.

 

[JLBats]

I guess no one can say for certain what really happened. I personally believe it happened, but I don't know for sure...

This is all I've ever wanted to hear you say, dude, about everything
I don't know if you realize that you come off as really arrogant on here a lot of the time?
But really. Those two sentences applied to everything you say would make all the difference.

I wouldn't even mind if you said "These are some beliefs that have helped me" or "In my limited experience, this is what works and what I've found to be true"

Instead, man, it seems like most of the time you're saying "These are some beliefs that work for me and must work for you or you're a heathen" and "In my limited experience, here is universal truth, to be followed by everyone."

You know?

 

[Moviefan2k4]

You mean God created the serpent to trick mankind into sinning, and used the serpent as a scapegoat for his own wrong-doing.

Not at all. If you're truly determined to believe that, it's your right to do so. But I do not believe that Scripture supports that conclusion.

 

[Eggyman]

This is all I've ever wanted to hear you say, dude, about everything
I don't know if you realize that you come off as really arrogant on here a lot of the time?
But really. Those two sentences applied to everything you say would make all the difference.

I wouldn't even mind if you said "These are some beliefs that have helped me" or "In my limited experience, this is what works and what I've found to be true"

Instead, man, it seems like most of the time you're saying "These are some beliefs that work for me and must work for you or you're a heathen" and "In my limited experience, here is universal truth, to be followed by everyone."

You know?

Well said, Bats

 

[BlackLantern]

people are driven by different things....some for themselves, so for others, some to see others suffer....that's a big part of our "nature"

 

[Moviefan2k4]

This is all I've ever wanted to hear you say, dude, about everything
I don't know if you realize that you come off as really arrogant on here a lot of the time?
But really. Those two sentences applied to everything you say would make all the difference.

I wouldn't even mind if you said "These are some beliefs that have helped me" or "In my limited experience, this is what works and what I've found to be true"

Instead, man, it seems like most of the time you're saying "These are some beliefs that work for me and must work for you or you're a heathen" and "In my limited experience, here is universal truth, to be followed by everyone."

You know?

I personally believe there is a universal and absolute truth in this world, and that the God of Biblical scripture is it. I believe that we as a race have fallen short of His perfection standard, and that He sent His Son to pay the blood debt we never could. I believe these things with every fiber of my being; I know many don't, and that is their right. But if the Bible is true, then the truth will be very heart-wrenching for many people. If it's wrong, and there's nothing after this life, then I have nothing to fear either way. I only post in these kinds of threads because so many folks are convinced they don't have a choice...and I'm trying to prove otherwise.

 

[The Senator]

Not at all. If you're truly determined to believe that, it's your right to do so. But I do not believe that Scripture supports that conclusion.

Yes, it does.

Scripture says that God is all powerful and all knowing. Then shouldn't God have known that the serpent was going to trick Adam and Eve into sinning? Shouldn't he have ensured that the oh-so-evil talking snake didn't enter the garden? And when you consider the fact that Adam and Eve were in this magical garden with numerous strange creatures, and had been conversing with a mysterious, talking man in the sky, wouldn't it have made sense for God to forgive them for being tricked by a magical, talking animal?

No, what he did was damn ALL of mankind. Not only did he punish Adam and Eve, but he punished ALL of humanity for their ONE minor, petty crime... which was EATING a PIECE OF FRUIT off of a tree.

They didn't throw a grenade into the garden. They didn't murder each other.

They believed the words from a talking snake God should have KNOWN was going to be in the garden anyway, considering he is all powerful and all knowing.

So, from scripture, we can come to two conclusions about what was said in Genesis:

1) God knew that the snake was going to trick Adam and Eve, but didn't do anything. This proves that God was looking for a scapegoat for which he could punish all of mankind for his own shortcomings.

or

2) God didn't know that the snake was going to trick Adam and Eve, which refutes the idea that he is all-knowing and all-powerful, which proves that God is just as fallible as man.

You don't even have to read the book of Genesis all the way through to uncover numerous logical arguments against what is being told to us. If God is so powerful, then how can there be a Satanic force? If god is so knowing, then how could he have presided over the conditions which damned all of mankind?

None of this makes any sense. Hence, why this SHOULDN'T be taught in a science class.

 

[BlackLantern]

can we get back to humans?....Jman is waging a jihad and i'd like if he calmed down a bit....

 

[JLBats]

I personally believe there is a universal and absolute truth in this world, and that the God of Biblical scripture is it. I believe that we as a race have fallen short of His perfection standard, and that He sent His Son to pay the blood debt we never could. I believe these things with every fiber of my being; I know many don't, and that is their right. But if the Bible is true, then the truth will be very heart-wrenching for many people. If it's wrong, and there's nothing after this life, then I have nothing to fear either way. I only post in these kinds of threads because so many folks are convinced they don't have a choice...and I'm trying to prove otherwise.

Yes, but you don't KNOW any of that. Not really. And every BUDDHIST and MUSLIM and ATHEIST is equally, destructively convinced that their universal and absolute truth is the REAL one.

If the KORAN is true, then the truth will be very heart-wrenching for YOU.

How do you not get this?!
How do you not see that YOUR being satisfied you've found the answer does not make it apply to everyone?
This seems like a very SIMPLE rule of interacting with other people.

Like, I guess I honestly just don't get you. We'd never be friends. But as much as you're trying to impart your Truth, I'm just trying to impart the only thing I'VE ever found to be Truth: That as certain as you are about having found your Way, there is somebody out there equally convinced that THEY have found the one True Way.

Please respond to this. Does any of this ever get through to you?

 

[The Senator]

can we get back to humans?....Jman is waging a jihad and i'd like if he calmed down a bit....

Religion has much to do with humanity.

Much of the developed world has ingrained religion into every element of society. Whether it is church, government, or even public schools, religion is pushed on people all of the time. Whether you are in the United States and forced to listen to your president babble on about how God spoke to him, or you're in Iran and see women dress in outfits which only leave their eyes to be seen, religion is very much a part of the human condition. I personally think it has held back numerous advancements the entire world could have made by now. We have become too consumed by religion to think abstractly about humanity and science. We have become too focused on what was written in books thousands of years ago rather than how we can advance as a society well into the future.

It is one thing to have faith, it is another to use that faith to hold an entire society back. That is what has been happening, especially over the past eight years, at least. It is still happening today, whether society is voting against giving civil rights to people or holding back scientific advancements because they represent a "moral" quandary.

And this doesn't just describe the United States... but the entire world. Virtually every country which is largely theistic.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Scripture says that God is all powerful and all knowing. Then shouldn't God have known that the serpent was going to trick Adam and Eve into sinning?

He knew all too well that the serpent was there, but He'd also given humanity dominion and authority over every animal that existed. Adam & Eve could've said, "No! We will not disobey God!", and rebuked the serpent for its trickery...but they didn't. they rebelled against God out of a greed and lust for knowledge (which they could've gained by simply asking God for it), and they suffered the consequences.

Shouldn't he have ensured that the oh-so-evil talking snake didn't enter the garden?

For free will to exist in this world, there has to be a choice for both good and evil. Without it, love would be forced, and that means nothing to God. He wanted humans to love Him freely, so He gave them that choice, knowing full well they'd also recieve a choice for the latter as well. It was all created as part of God's original design, but the outcome was done through human choice, not God.

And when you consider the fact that Adam and Eve were in this magical garden with numerous strange creatures, and had been conversing with a mysterious, talking man in the sky, wouldn't it have made sense for God to forgive them for being tricked by a magical, talking animal?

Tricked or not, they still had a choice to either trust God or rebel, and they chose the latter. Being perfect, God had no other choice but to punish them, because the only valid payment for redemption is sinless death.

No, what he did was damn ALL of mankind. Not only did he punish Adam and Eve, but he punished ALL of humanity for their ONE minor, petty crime... which was EATING a PIECE OF FRUIT off of a tree.

Adam and Eve were "all of mankind"; they were it. There was no one else at that point. And the crime they were guilty of had nothing to do with the fruit...the crime was disobeying God, rather than trusting Him.

They didn't throw a grenade into the garden. They didn't murder each other.

Those comparisons are the result of a fallible human mind. e as a race tend to say "well, this isn't so bad, because there's something worse." God, on the other hand, views each and every sin as equal in both origin and penalty. Every transgression, at its core, serves the same purpose: to go against the God which created us.

God knew that the snake was going to trick Adam and Eve, but didn't do anything. This proves that God was looking for a scapegoat for which he could punish all of mankind for his own shortcomings.

God had given complete authority and dominion over that serpent to Adam and Eve. He even told them to "subdue" the Earth, which means to maintain conrol when things try to get out of line. He was trusting humanity, as a parent trusts His children...and they broke that trust through selfishness.

If God is so powerful, then how can there be a Satanic force?

Because God created Satan, who was a glorious angel until he was cast out of Heaven for trying to take God's throne.

If God is so knowing, then how could he have presided over the conditions which damned all of mankind?

God is all-knowing, and He created this planet, which means He owns it and makes the rules. He has the power to love and judge His creation equally, and while He is forgiving, that aspect of His nature cannot override the fact that all sin must be paid with a penalty. So, He sent Jesus to pay it for us, since we could not do it ourselves.

 

[StarvingArtist]

I feel bad for silverstein....all of these zealots and pontificators hijacking his topic

 

[BlackLantern]

I think it's fair to say that religion, in itself, isn't bad....it's the people who use it for their own purposes are the bad ones, and there are a lot of people and countries that do that....use the fear of "God" to keep their people in shackles.....

 

[JLBats]

I feel bad for silverstein....all of these zealots and pontificators hijacking his topic

Silverstein began discussing religion on the very first page, so I'd say he got what he wanted.

 

[BlackLantern]

speaking of human nature...I walked into our office restroom and someone in the stall had thrown their pants over the top of the stall....they removed their pants to take a poop....WTF???

 

[Carcharodon]

The accuracy of radiometric dating is highly unstable, as its supposedly limited to a timespan of 10 million years at most (according to many evolutionists, mind you).

Wrong again. I guess you're used to it by now. The range is actually many billions of years. I suggest you look into Potassium-Argon dating, and other methods that have ranges FAR beyond 10 million years (I think you pulled that number from your ass, frankly) and accuracies within only a few million years.

 

[Carcharodon]

Silverstein began discussing religion on the very first page, so I'd say he got what he wanted.

Exactly.