Comics I fear for the current status of Superman.

[The Question]

After Infinite Crisis, and even a little before, I've been having some uneasy feelings about the direction Superman is going in. There are many factors that have brought about these feelings, and they all seem to culminate into a direction that I am not fond of.

1) The power levels. For the last few years, his power levels have risen considerably. He has recently (and by recently I mean within the past could of years) destroyed a small moon and even pulled the moon out of it's orbit. Now, these aren't entirely big deals. I am simply irked by non cosmic characters preforming such feats. Makes him finding challenge with Earthly criminals seem rather far fetched. However, the worst aspect of his power levels, for me at least, was in the recent "Up Up and Awya" arc. There, his sensory abilities showed to be sow potent that he could see an hear practically everything that was going on on the planet at any given time. That bothers me. Alot. I mean, how can he ever not see anything coming if he is basically all knowing now? And, more importantly, are they simply going to ignore that that level of power would corrupt a man very quickly? I mean, how could he not be tempted to use that ability to listen in on every conversation on the planet, even if he justifies it as making sure the world stays safe? He has also, seemingly, regained his super inteligence that has been missing since pre-crisis. I, personally, am not fond of Superman also being a superhuman scientist and thinker along with his other abilities. I mean, I don't think he should be able to do everything.

2) The villains. This is a far larger problem than the power levles. Superman's villains have seriously gotten the shaft recently.

In "Up Up and Away," Luthor was a shadow of his former self. A generic, two dimensional, maniacle villain. Gone was all of the depth that had been apart of his character up until recently. The very fact that he would destroy Metropolis, the city he loves more than life itslef, is terribly out of character.

Rody Jones, The Parasite, was killed a few years ago, and was replaced by a far less powerful and a far worse character in the form of the new, female Parasite.

Metallo lost his personality of the inteligent, sophisticated street level criminal, and was basically turned into a pale imitation of The Parasite. He was then stripped of his powers

Then Atomic Skull was turned from a crazy, almost tragic man who simply wanted to be a hero into a rent-a-thug who explodes when you shoot him.

Darkseid, who was once a threat to the entire DCU, can now get pimp smacked around by Superman and have his Omega Effect bounce of Supes' chest.

Terra-Man's personality was turned back into that of his pre-crisis thug who was obsessed with the old west, and then brutally killed simply to make a point.

Worst of all, in Up Up and Away, Superman easily defeated five villains who had all given him an equal fight seperately (Live Wire, Silver Banshee, Hellgrammite, Bloodsport, Riot) with minimal effort.


Is anyone else worried? Is anyone not worried? Does anyone find me really annoying and whiney?

 

[Spike_x1]

I worry, but that should come as no surprise to anyone who reads my posts on this subject.

Pre-crisis Superman elements have their place in the All-Star book. If I wanted to read about them, that is the comic I'd read.

 

[SpideyInATree]

I don't know about you but Up Up and Away got me back into Superman. If they keep writing Supes like this I'll have no problem with it. Though all the Superman Returns references are kind of annoying. It'd be REALLY nice if one god damn comic company could separate the movie plots from the COMIC plots.

 

[DavidTyler]

Several times over the years, writers and editors have teamed up to try to bring Supes power down to a level that would make him less a god and more a hero we can identify with.

Unfortunately, other writers come along and power him right back up again. I think DC needs stronger leadership.A hero who can't juggle planets and can be broken. I mean, what's the sense of giving him opponents if you KNOW he's going to win easily? Where's the excitement in that? Sure, I expect him to win eventually but how about making him struggle to get there. Otherwise we would have a two page story every month.

 

[retconned]

I also fear for the comics. With Superman Returns doing the backtracking thing, I feel the comics will as well as a reflection of the movie franchise. This was my greatest fear about Singer's vision.

 

[batman44]

I'm with you guys on this one. Why must DC go back to making Superman, Supergod.

 

[retconned]

I'm with you guys on this one. Why must DC go back to making Superman, Supergod.

Agreed. Thats actually what makes Superman boring in alot of eyes.

 

[Gogo Bananas]

When DC is going to move a character into a new phase, like Supes getting more powerful, alien, etc, they really gotta start planning an escape route so they can reset things organically without a crisis.

 

[Motown Marvel]

yeah, i loved the up up and away arc, but i really dont want his power levels being off the charts again. they need to be reasonable.

 

[The Sage]

Several times over the years, writers and editors have teamed up to try to bring Supes power down to a level that would make him less a god and more a hero we can identify with.

Unfortunately, other writers come along and power him right back up again. I think DC needs stronger leadership.A hero who can't juggle planets and can be broken. I mean, what's the sense of giving him opponents if you KNOW he's going to win easily? Where's the excitement in that? Sure, I expect him to win eventually but how about making him struggle to get there. Otherwise we would have a two page story every month.

While they should lower his power levels, the villains' problem could be solved by giving Superman opponents who are either as powerful as he is or very intelligent.

 

[Gogo Bananas]

Grant Morrison really is to blame for bringing back Supes ricockulous power levels.
Normally I'm with Morrison, but sometimes he's just fried.

 

[Jimmy-San]

Eh, right before Infinite Crisis, I would've agreed. I like the Busiek/Johns Superman, though.

 

[Sloth7d]

Meh- atleast he isn't a total tool who exposed himself to the world like another superhero I lost faith in.

 

[Spike_x1]

While they should lower his power levels, the villains' problem could be solved by giving Superman opponents who are either as powerful as he is or very intelligent.

The villains aren't really a problem as long as Superman's powers aren't too "up there."

I mean, even low level grunts like Barrage or Bloodsport could give Superman a pretty decent fight a few years ago if they really played up their strengths, before Superman became noticeably re-powered up. But if Superman is on the level of power where he can pull the moon, it's pretty hard for a reader to believe that someone whose gimmick is just a set of fancy blasters and lasers can give Superman even a moments pause.

 

[dpm07]

I have no interest in seeing Superman at Pre-Crisis levels of power. It's a sad testament that Singer really didn't seem to do a lot of research on Superman other than the Donner film.

The best interpretation of Superman was done in STAS/JL/JLU in the DCAU by the Timm/Dini team. Those guys gave the DC heroes, and most notably the respect they deserved, and made them interesting and worth watching. They made Superman powerful, but not too powerful. They made him be able to be hurt by other things than kryptonite, and they also when necessary allow him to take his game to the next level when opponents came on that were waay powerful. This is the best interpretation of Superman I've ever seen.

This is not what I seen in Singer's film, and I agree with The Question. When Superman can push a moon, or hear all things in the world, that really makes things boring real quick. Sure, they can make the villains more powerful, but then people will complain that the villains are too powerful. People lose their connection to a hero and especially one like Superman when they see how god-like he is. Granted, I love the metaphorical allegory of Superman presented in a messianic sense, but I really don't need to see the Pre-Crisis power level. That allegory can be presented without making Superman that powerful.

Case in point, in SR, he lifts a continent in space. That was lame. Granted, they made a point to show that he was able to do it because he soaked up the sun's energy. However, if this is Superman at that power level all the time, it's going to get pretty old.

I like Marvel and DC, but one thing Marvel has always had the edge on, is having relatively established limits for their heroes. This is one thing that DC really hasn't done, and wasn't really presented well until the Animated DC Universe was done on-screen with Timm/Dini.

Also, I like the fact that Superman is not always portrayed as super intelligent. When they started playing the super intelligent card, it will likely turn a lot of people off as well. Again, it's dipping back into that Pre-Crisis world, which belongs in the past. That's one of the (many) things that annoyed me about that travesty of a show called The Superfriends, and one reason it really doesn't hold a candle to the JL/JLU over time. JL/JLU was a presentation of the way heroes IMO should be done. With characterizations, arcs, clearly defined abilities, and respect for the characters.

Again, this is all my opinion, but it's an opinion based on almost 35 years of association to superheroes.

 

[Jimmy-San]

Whether Superman struggles to lift a building or can toss around planets doesn't make much difference to me. As long as the villains are portrayed well and he has peers, power levels don't mean much to good writing.

 

[Gogo Bananas]

Flash was better after COIE, when they brought him down to the speed of sound. His old rogues gallery was a credible threat again. As soon as they brought him back to the speed of light, he lost all that.
Superman's the same. There's really no need for him to be a planet juggler and back when Byrne had him straining to lift a ocean liner the stories were more dramatic. And a guy with that many powers just doesn't need to be the greatest in all of them. Kinda like Batman is second best in the world at everything.

 

[Fan of Tomorrow]

"Up, Up, and Away!" was great. But you're right. His power level is getting dangerously close to pre-crisis levels, if not there already. The moment he started "thinking quickly" I started to get a little bit worried.

Now so far, it hasn't affected me, mainly because the writing has been so good. They can still tone it down or level it out to a decent level in the coming months as well. If it continues as it has though, I think a lot of readers are going to be turned off. A point will come where he will just seem completely unrelatable. That's a charge Superman's been unfairly charged with for a long time now, but the stronger he becomes, the more weight I think it carries.

 

[TheOriginalman]

I guess I look at it like this. While one wouldn't want Superman to be too powerful like Pre-Crisis, I certainly wouldn't want him like in TAS. In TAS, I've seen him having trouble with Bane. Even pumped up with venom, Bane should be nowhere near a match for Superman. In other words, he shouldn't be Pre-Crisis (too powerful) or TAS (too weak).

 

[dpm07]

I guess I look at it like this. While one wouldn't want Superman to be too powerful like Pre-Crisis, I certainly wouldn't want him like in TAS. In TAS, I've seen him having trouble with Bane. Even pumped up with venom, Bane should be nowhere near a match for Superman. In other words, he shouldn't be Pre-Crisis (too powerful) or TAS (too weak).

He's not weak in TAS. Have you seen Legacy? That episode with Bane where Bane hit him, was intentional. He was dressed as Batman and supposed to be conveying this. Did you see when he did cut loose on Bane? He man raped him. Bane couldn't even believe it, and neither could the Mad Hatter.

STAS and later JL/JLU captured Superman's strength perfectly. Not too powerful, but able to cut loose when he needed to. This was never more evident than in the episode titled, Destroyer!. He cut loose major in that one. Another barometer of Superman's power was Supergirl. In the JLU episode Far From Home, she took on the entire Legion of Superheroes, and an experienced Green Lantern, and almost beat them all! Factor in that she's only half as strong as Superman as stated by Livewire in Girls Night Out, and one gets the idea of how powerful and well portrayed Superman's power levels were done. Look at the episode of FTMWHE. Wonder Woman who is supposed to be a distant second to Superman illustrated just how less she was when she took on Mongo. Superman again almost killed Mongo in that episode.

The Timm/Dini team and the DCAU really captured Superman's power level the best.

 

[Kool-Aid]

I like Superman having incredible power, just as long as they don't have him doing to far feats I'm game. The whole time during Infinte Crisis I was praying he would just slap the taste outta Superboy Prime. Superman is supposed to be SUPERman. I feel Morrison and Johns have portryed him best. He's supposed to always win. I don't understand the need to see him struggle there's plenty other characters like that to chose from.

Flash was better after COIE, when they brought him down to the speed of sound. His old rogues gallery was a credible threat again. As soon as they brought him back to the speed of light, he lost all that.

Geoff Johns' run on Flash is arguably the best run on Flash ever and he was at that power set.

 

[Spike_x1]

He's not weak in TAS. Have you seen Legacy? That episode with Bane where Bane hit him, was intentional. He was dressed as Batman and supposed to be conveying this. Did you see when he did cut loose on Bane? He man raped him. Bane couldn't even believe it, and neither could the Mad Hatter.

STAS and later JL/JLU captured Superman's strength perfectly. Not too powerful, but able to cut loose when he needed to. This was never more evident than in the episode titled, Destroyer!. He cut loose major in that one. Another barometer of Superman's power was Supergirl. In the JLU episode Far From Home, she took on the entire Legion of Superheroes, and an experienced Green Lantern, and almost beat them all! Factor in that she's only half as strong as Superman as stated by Livewire in Girls Night Out, and one gets the idea of how powerful and well portrayed Superman's power levels were done. Look at the episode of FTMWHE. Wonder Woman who is supposed to be a distant second to Superman illustrated just how less she was when she took on Mongo. Superman again almost killed Mongo in that episode.

The Timm/Dini team and the DCAU really captured Superman's power level the best.

*cough*Mongul*cough*

 

[dpm07]

*cough*Mongul*cough*

Man, it's always the little stuff that gets me.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[TheOriginalman]

He's not weak in TAS. Have you seen Legacy? That episode with Bane where Bane hit him, was intentional. He was dressed as Batman and supposed to be conveying this. Did you see when he did cut loose on Bane? He man raped him. Bane couldn't even believe it, and neither could the Mad Hatter.

STAS and later JL/JLU captured Superman's strength perfectly. Not too powerful, but able to cut loose when he needed to. This was never more evident than in the episode titled, Destroyer!. He cut loose major in that one. Another barometer of Superman's power was Supergirl. In the JLU episode Far From Home, she took on the entire Legion of Superheroes, and an experienced Green Lantern, and almost beat them all! Factor in that she's only half as strong as Superman as stated by Livewire in Girls Night Out, and one gets the idea of how powerful and well portrayed Superman's power levels were done. Look at the episode of FTMWHE. Wonder Woman who is supposed to be a distant second to Superman illustrated just how less she was when she took on Mongo. Superman again almost killed Mongo in that episode.

The Timm/Dini team and the DCAU really captured Superman's power level the best.

Ok. I guess you're right about the Bane episode. I haven't really watched many episodes of JL/JLU to really judge. I miss them everytime they come on. My point is you expect a certain level of power from Superman. That post was basically me playing "devil's advocate". I like him powerful. He's one of my 4 favorite all time heroes. The other 3 are Batman, the Hulk, and Thor.

 

[Jakomus]

Does anyone find me really annoying and whiney?

I do. You have to understand that Superman's conflict doesn't come from fighting the bad guys. Superman is supposed to be powerful. That's the idea. The conflict comes from Superman and his ideals, and how the villain's ideals go against his. Not from whether he can beat up the bad guys or not.

Example:

Red Son

The story features a powerful Superman that stopped foes in seconds. But it dealt with his moral views, and that's what made the story interesting.