Comics I fear for the current status of Superman.

The Question said:
Is anyone else worried? Is anyone not worried? Does anyone find me really annoying and whiney?

You're not wrong at all, nor are you annoying or whiney. You make great sense, and pushing back Superman to the Silver Age status of Pre-Crisis Power Levels is pretty lame, IMO.

A Superman who can defeat everything around him without even trying is going to get really old. It will probably alienate many of the readers.

I want to see him win of course, but not without struggle. Like I've said before, STAS/JL/JLU did him perfectly. Not too powerful, not too weak, but able to rise to the occasion when he needed to. I don't want to see Superman turning back time or destroying moons or pulling planets. That's lame, IMO.

The whole thing with appealing to his heart is fine, but don't make him so powerful that people become bored reading him or wanting to watch him. I really get tired of the cop out of using kryptonite to beat him. Again, the DCAU did him right by not making him too powerful and not making him too weak. They made him just right, and have really provided the best modern day adaptation to date.

One of the reasons the film is bombing is because Singer made him boring, and provided a pretty boring story that fans really aren't interested in seeing. That's why they're taking prints down of Superman on screen and giving screens to POTC 2.
 
Hmmm....making him so powerful is a mistake. I mean, if he's that powerful......where's the sense of danger?

Kryptonite still hurts him.....right?

Btw, can't this still be an effect of his pwers returning almost? Sort of like a mega power surge for the time being until he settles in or something?
 
I have no problem with him being really strong. Problem I have is when they ignore basic laws of physics. He wouldnt be able to pull the moon. He would pull a chunk off the moon just as he cant push it because he would go through it. They screwed up with that in the movie a couple times with the yacht and new krypton.
 
I wasn't worried until I read Up, Up, and Away. Then I worried. That story was not good at all.
 
The Leaguer said:
I wasn't worried until I read Up, Up, and Away. Then I worried. That story was not good at all.

Damn, man. Do you like anything at all? :confused:
 
The Leaguer said:
I wasn't worried until I read Up, Up, and Away. Then I worried. That story was not good at all.


What didn't you like about it? Was it the power upgrades or did you just think it was boring?
 
SpideyInATree said:
Damn, man. Do you like anything at all? :confused:
If that's a serious question, you know nothing about me.

Kool-Aid said:
What didn't you like about it? Was it the power upgrades or did you just think it was boring?
I love power upgrades. What I didn't like was Lex's sudden desire to destroy the city he loves so much, the new costume, the whole crystal thing and the whole time I was anticipating the dramatic return of Superman, and I was let down.
 
The Leaguer said:
If that's a serious question, you know nothing about me.


I love power upgrades. What I didn't like was Lex's sudden desire to destroy the city he loves so much, the new costume, the whole crystal thing and the whole time I was anticipating the dramatic return of Superman, and I was let down.

No, it wasn't serious. :spidey:
 
The Question said:
After Infinite Crisis, and even a little before, I've been having some uneasy feelings about the direction Superman is going in. There are many factors that have brought about these feelings, and they all seem to culminate into a direction that I am not fond of.

1) The power levels. For the last few years, his power levels have risen considerably. He has recently (and by recently I mean within the past could of years) destroyed a small moon and even pulled the moon out of it's orbit. Now, these aren't entirely big deals. I am simply irked by non cosmic characters preforming such feats. Makes him finding challenge with Earthly criminals seem rather far fetched. However, the worst aspect of his power levels, for me at least, was in the recent "Up Up and Awya" arc. There, his sensory abilities showed to be sow potent that he could see an hear practically everything that was going on on the planet at any given time. That bothers me. Alot. I mean, how can he ever not see anything coming if he is basically all knowing now? And, more importantly, are they simply going to ignore that that level of power would corrupt a man very quickly? I mean, how could he not be tempted to use that ability to listen in on every conversation on the planet, even if he justifies it as making sure the world stays safe? He has also, seemingly, regained his super inteligence that has been missing since pre-crisis. I, personally, am not fond of Superman also being a superhuman scientist and thinker along with his other abilities. I mean, I don't think he should be able to do everything.

2) The villains. This is a far larger problem than the power levles. Superman's villains have seriously gotten the shaft recently.

In "Up Up and Away," Luthor was a shadow of his former self. A generic, two dimensional, maniacle villain. Gone was all of the depth that had been apart of his character up until recently. The very fact that he would destroy Metropolis, the city he loves more than life itslef, is terribly out of character.

Rody Jones, The Parasite, was killed a few years ago, and was replaced by a far less powerful and a far worse character in the form of the new, female Parasite.

Metallo lost his personality of the inteligent, sophisticated street level criminal, and was basically turned into a pale imitation of The Parasite. He was then stripped of his powers

Then Atomic Skull was turned from a crazy, almost tragic man who simply wanted to be a hero into a rent-a-thug who explodes when you shoot him.

Darkseid, who was once a threat to the entire DCU, can now get pimp smacked around by Superman and have his Omega Effect bounce of Supes' chest.

Terra-Man's personality was turned back into that of his pre-crisis thug who was obsessed with the old west, and then brutally killed simply to make a point.

Worst of all, in Up Up and Away, Superman easily defeated five villains who had all given him an equal fight seperately (Live Wire, Silver Banshee, Hellgrammite, Bloodsport, Riot) with minimal effort.


Is anyone else worried? Is anyone not worried? Does anyone find me really annoying and whiney?
Speak for yourself
I want superman back to full power level
Competition is really tough out there when it comes to character such as dragon balls z

One thing I really like about superman was his intellect and all the cool stuff he had in his fortress of solitude including kandor
I want the clumsy Clark Kent back , because I always thought if superman fell like he's “living in a world of cardboard” , therefore it’s only normal he acts so clumsy when he's being Clark Kent
Because he's trying so hard not to break stuff around him

They can always come up with a way for superman to control his solar energy absorption through his costume therefore keeping him at a lower power level for fear of losing touch with his humanity
But when really needed he can have the ability to power back to his full power and beyond.

Just like dragon ball z character and their Super Sayan stuff
I’ve been thinking about this for so long ever since I heard writers claiming not being able to make interesting story because superman was too powerful
And it was way before I ever seen any dragon balls characters.
 
I like him being extremely strong. His rightful place is at the very top tier of non-god characters. In the right circumstance he should be pretty much unbeatable. He is Superman, the first and the best, and that's just how it should be.

As others have said his struggles come from trying to live a normal life on Earth among humans. Balance that with an almost manic sense of responsibility to protect people. When is it right to unleash some of that held-back strength for the greater good? Superman genuinely doesn't want to alienate himself too much from humanity and succumb to the tempations of limitless power, yet the potential is there.

The one thing I would agree with is he shouldn't have super intellect. Photographic memory is fine. But super high IQ, scientific genius, and Batman-like intuitiveness? Not his style and not needed. Just like he doesn't need to know any advanced fighting techniques, its simply pointless.
 
I say make Superman powerful as Hell. That's the fun Superman, not this "omfg teh speid of sound is tooo fasst1" bulls***.
 
The Question said:
After Infinite Crisis, and even a little before, I've been having some uneasy feelings about the direction Superman is going in. There are many factors that have brought about these feelings, and they all seem to culminate into a direction that I am not fond of.

1) The power levels. For the last few years, his power levels have risen considerably. He has recently (and by recently I mean within the past could of years) destroyed a small moon and even pulled the moon out of it's orbit. Now, these aren't entirely big deals. I am simply irked by non cosmic characters preforming such feats. Makes him finding challenge with Earthly criminals seem rather far fetched. However, the worst aspect of his power levels, for me at least, was in the recent "Up Up and Awya" arc. There, his sensory abilities showed to be sow potent that he could see an hear practically everything that was going on on the planet at any given time. That bothers me. Alot. I mean, how can he ever not see anything coming if he is basically all knowing now? And, more importantly, are they simply going to ignore that that level of power would corrupt a man very quickly? I mean, how could he not be tempted to use that ability to listen in on every conversation on the planet, even if he justifies it as making sure the world stays safe? He has also, seemingly, regained his super inteligence that has been missing since pre-crisis. I, personally, am not fond of Superman also being a superhuman scientist and thinker along with his other abilities. I mean, I don't think he should be able to do everything.

2) The villains. This is a far larger problem than the power levles. Superman's villains have seriously gotten the shaft recently.

In "Up Up and Away," Luthor was a shadow of his former self. A generic, two dimensional, maniacle villain. Gone was all of the depth that had been apart of his character up until recently. The very fact that he would destroy Metropolis, the city he loves more than life itslef, is terribly out of character.

Rody Jones, The Parasite, was killed a few years ago, and was replaced by a far less powerful and a far worse character in the form of the new, female Parasite.

Metallo lost his personality of the inteligent, sophisticated street level criminal, and was basically turned into a pale imitation of The Parasite. He was then stripped of his powers

Then Atomic Skull was turned from a crazy, almost tragic man who simply wanted to be a hero into a rent-a-thug who explodes when you shoot him.

Darkseid, who was once a threat to the entire DCU, can now get pimp smacked around by Superman and have his Omega Effect bounce of Supes' chest.

Terra-Man's personality was turned back into that of his pre-crisis thug who was obsessed with the old west, and then brutally killed simply to make a point.

Worst of all, in Up Up and Away, Superman easily defeated five villains who had all given him an equal fight seperately (Live Wire, Silver Banshee, Hellgrammite, Bloodsport, Riot) with minimal effort.


Is anyone else worried? Is anyone not worried? Does anyone find me really annoying and whiney?

For 20 years now, ever since DKR and MOS, DC has been pushing the idea that Superman is a country bumpkin boyscout dork and that Batman is the real badass of the DCU who could kick Supermans ass and outsmart him anytime he wished.

To fix Superman, DC needs to go back to Jerry Siegel's core concepts of the character and they need to base the characters visual style more on what Shuster did, with a touch of Curt Swan thrown in.

Superman needs to be the reality, Clark the disguise. It's what Siegel intended.

Krypton needs to be based on the visions of Alex Raymond and Fritz Lang, not the bucket of throw-up that Byrne hacked out. "Flash Gordon Krypton" is what Joe Shuster INTENDED for Krypton to be.

The Clark/Superman/Lois triangle was what Siegel intended for the strip to have, but it's also important to note that DC stole creative control of Superman from S & S over the "K-Metal" story, where Lois was to find out Superman's real identity. So the marriage itself is not a bad thing, but the way Lois has walked all over the stupid country bumpkin boyscout that DC has stupidly turned Superman into is a disgrace.

Power levels are nowhere near as important as Superman having a brain, acting like a leader, and being a bad-ass. That's where DC has missed the mark-for the most part-over the past 20 years. It's not a coincidence that the best Post-Crisis Superman story, the Death of Superman, was a story where Superman fought with a lot of guts and determination.

I personally could easily take a Superman who could just jump an eighth of a mile if he was terrorizing a criminal while doing it, smirking all the time.
 
Diamondhead said:
Speak for yourself
I want superman back to full power level
Competition is really tough out there when it comes to character such as dragon balls z

One thing I really like about superman was his intellect and all the cool stuff he had in his fortress of solitude including kandor
I want the clumsy Clark Kent back , because I always thought if superman fell like he's “living in a world of cardboard” , therefore it’s only normal he acts so clumsy when he's being Clark Kent
Because he's trying so hard not to break stuff around him

They can always come up with a way for superman to control his solar energy absorption through his costume therefore keeping him at a lower power level for fear of losing touch with his humanity
But when really needed he can have the ability to power back to his full power and beyond.

Just like dragon ball z character and their Super Sayan stuff
I’ve been thinking about this for so long ever since I heard writers claiming not being able to make interesting story because superman was too powerful
And it was way before I ever seen any dragon balls characters.
Who else did you think he was speaking for? :confused:
 
I am personally glad they are returning him to his near pre-crisis level. He is Superman for god sake. The writers depowered him way to much. On the cartoon side, watching Supes on Justice League they made him way too weak but they did a better job with his power levels on Justice League Unlimited. Superman should always be near the top or at least in the top 5 most powerful characters in DC. You can't have the name Superman and have 50 characters be more powerful than you. My only solution as was mentioned here already is raise the power levels of his enemies where it won't be such a cake walk for Superman.
 
Superman was never meant to be 'super-intelligent', at least not by my personal standards. I think some of the people at DC want to highten Superman up to where he surpasses Batman in everything. But that isn't what it should be like. where Batman lacks in super powers, he makes up for with quick and sharp intellect: that is how he is even worthy to stand in superman's presence!

Superman's IQ should never be anything above slightly average. say probably 110-115 maybe.

As far as being omniscient, I'm undecided where they should draw the line. Hard to say for sure.
 
LordofHypertime said:
Superman was never meant to be 'super-intelligent', at least not by my personal standards. I think some of the people at DC want to highten Superman up to where he surpasses Batman in everything. But that isn't what it should be like. where Batman lacks in super powers, he makes up for with quick and sharp intellect: that is how he is even worthy to stand in superman's presence!

Superman's IQ should never be anything above slightly average. say probably 110-115 maybe.

As far as being omniscient, I'm undecided where they should draw the line. Hard to say for sure.

Wrong.

cover-sketch.jpg


Superman having high intellect and being a scientist was always part of the characters concept:

page-9.gif
 
I'm glad he has super-intellect. It makes him even more interesting.
 
The Leaguer said:
I love power upgrades. What I didn't like was Lex's sudden desire to destroy the city he loves so much, the whole time I was anticipating the dramatic return of Superman, and I was let down.



I agree :(
 
You know what really got me with up up and away was that as I finished it I kept thinking...wow that could have been a good film. I liked Returns but Johns just is on target with Superman in this story. It could have easily been the movie.
 
Yeah, I've been kinda sick ofthe superwuss we've gotten for the past twenty years. the guy who can get whopped by second rate villains and whatnot. He does need to be powerful again, as he's superman.

Theres no reason why supes cant be powerful while having his foes present a threat. Batman could beat the crap out of most of his entire rogues gallery in a physical fight, but its their other skills that challenge him. Supes needs that.
 
Yet, there are some books in which Supes appears to have only average intelligence.

I'll come out and admit that Golden Age Superman was meant to be smart. But as time went on, less and lesse emphasis was layed on his 'intellect.' Fans just wanted to really read about his powers. He was always clever, yes, but has not always exhibited unnatural genius.
 

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