Comics I fear for the current status of Superman.

[The Question]

It would make just as much sense as any comic book.

You make it sound like every comic throws logic completely to the wind. Yes, they are fictional, and do take liberties with reality, but most still follow logic based on how the universe is set up. If Superman is strong enough to move planets, why waste time fighting a giant robot and just throw it into space?

 

[The Leaguer]

You make it sound like a giant robot is as sophisticated as comics get. There are far more ways to hurt Superman than something as simple as a giant robot.

 

[The Question]

Okay. Name some. Besides Kryptonite.

 

[The Leaguer]

Magic.

 

[The Question]

What kind of magic? Is it a sorcerer? Because, if it's a sorcerer, then he might have problems because he doesn't kill people. But he could still just throw a demon into space.

 

[Manhunter]

Okay. Name some. Besides Kryptonite.

How about Subjeckt 17? Or the Auctioneer? I think it's safe to say the villains in Superman's life are going to be scaled up to pose a physical threat to the man of steel.

Since UU&A, Superman's senses and memory have been expanding, but I haven't seen any planet juggling yet. Sure in ASS (lol) his strength is tripled, but it's killing him too, hence the plot.

I'm not sure what your reading, but between All-Star, Action, Superman, and World's Finest, I haven't been this pleased with the current status in Superman in years.

 

[The Question]

How about Subjeckt 17? Or the Auctioneer? I think it's safe to say the villains in Superman's life are going to be scaled up to pose a physical threat to the man of steel.

Who the hell are Subjekt 17 and the Auctioneet? As for posing a physical threat, that brings up another problem: If Superman is brought up to planet moving levels, and his villains are suped up acordingly, then all Metallo or The Parasite would have to do is punch the ground and they'd kill most of the people on the east cost.

Since UU&A, Superman's senses and memory have been expanding, but I haven't seen any planet juggling yet. Sure in ASS (lol) his strength is tripled, but it's killing him too, hence the plot.

We were talking hypothetically about the planet moving.

I'm not sure what your reading, but between All-Star, Action, Superman, and World's Finest, I haven't been this pleased with the current status in Superman in years.

I stopped reading after Up Up and Away. It started out okay, but went to crap quickly. Superman beat several villains that would normally give him trouble by themselves with ease, and Lex was an absolute shell of his former self.

 

[Manhunter]

Who the hell are Subjekt 17 and the Auctioneer?

Oh I'm sorry I assumed you were actually reading Superman comics.

If Superman is brought up to planet moving levels

If it happens perhaps then your concerns will have some sort of basis in reality.

I stopped reading after Up Up and Away. It started out okay, but went to crap quickly. Superman beat several villains that would normally give him trouble by themselves with ease, and Lex was an absolute shell of his former self.

If that's all you got out of UU&A, then I can see why you're afraid.

 

[The Sage]

Personally I love the current status of Superman. Up Up and Away in my mind, made Lex more credible and showed he could be deadly outside the business office. With Geoff Johns teaming with Donner, and Kubert doing art too in October? It's going to be a great year with those guys. I've been reading comics consistently for three years now, and for Superman, this is the golden year I've been waiting for. Same with Batman.

 

[The Question]

If it happens perhaps then your concerns will have some sort of basis in reality.

We were talking hypothetically when planet moving was brought up. However, Superman has been powered up alot in recent years, and it seems like he might be headed in that direction.

Up Up and Away in my mind, made Lex more credible and showed he could be deadly outside the business office.

Up Up and Away mangled Lex as a character. In the past few years, Lex has actually had some depth to him as a character. In Up Up and Away, he was just Snidely Whiplash in a bald cap.

 

[The Leaguer]

Up, Up and Away was a f***ing terrible characterization of Lex. We all know he could be deadly outside the office, that's what half of his character is built on. What Up, Up and Away was show how s***ty he can be written.

 

[gildea]

then all Metallo or The Parasite would have to do is punch the ground and they'd kill most of the people on the east cost.

Metallo no, he has kryptonite, doesn't need to be as strong.

Parasite yes, but why would they want to destroy the world?



As Said I'm not in the planet moving camp and I'd like the flash to be faster but in general I think all star superman is about the right level for supes powers.

I don't want a character at WW of MM status, other wise I'd read their books, I want to read about the best hero of them all.

 

[The Question]

Parasite yes, but why would they want to destroy the world?

That's not the point. If he's that strong, he'd kill billions before he was stopped.

As Said I'm not in the planet moving camp and I'd like the flash to be faster but in general I think all star superman is about the right level for supes powers.

All Star Superman is at planet moving levels.

I don't want a character at WW of MM status, other wise I'd read their books, I want to read about the best hero of them all.

1) So you're saying that you prefer Wonder Woman and J'onn to be much weaker than Superman, correct?

2) A hero can be the best without being the most powerful.

 

[Spike_x1]

Metallo no, he has kryptonite, doesn't need to be as strong.

I will never understand how anyone can ever be satisfied with an inanimate green rock as a threat. When someone uses kryptonite on Superman, as a reader, why the hell would you want to see a boring scene where all the villain does is stand there while Superman struggles in pain?

If Metallo is going to have a body powered by kryptonite (people always forget that he didn't even have green k for most of his career), than I'd prefer it if he actually uses his fists as much as he uses the radiation. It's much more dynamic and exicting that way.

 

[The Question]

I will never understand how anyone can ever be satisfied with an inanimate green rock as a threat. When someone uses kryptonite on Superman, as a reader, why the hell would you want to see a boring scene where all the villain does is stand there while Superman struggles in pain?

Really, if I had my way, i'd do one of three things:


1) Get rid of Kryptonite all together.

2) Extend Superman's weakness to high levels of radiation in general.

3) Make Kryptonite highly lethal to everyone, not just Kryptonians.

 

[The Leaguer]

Increasing Superman's weakness would blow just as badly as de-powering him.

 

[The Question]

It's not like he's bound to come in contact with radiation all the time. I'd really prefer just getting rid of Kryptonite all together, but if they're not willing to do that, then I'd include all massive amounts of radiation as a cause for alarm. But really, getting rid of the rock would be my preference.

 

[The Leaguer]

Lame. As-is is best.

 

[The Question]

Not for me. I hate Kryptonite. Horible plot device. I'd rather have Superman get into fights with villains powerful enough to hurt him than have him get queasy around a green rock.

 

[The Leaguer]

It goes far beyond being just a "green rock."

It's his home. Peaces of his legacy are lethal to him. That's one Hell of a metaphor: not only are you, at your core being, alone on this planet, not only is everything you should have been born into long destroyed, not only is the very stuff that made up your family spread out across the universe, but what is left f***ing kills you. People and comic characters loves to say, "his heart, not Kryptonite, is the best way to hurt Superman," but Kryptonite does just that. It strikes at his heart.

 

[gildea]

That's not the point. If he's that strong, he'd kill billions before he was stopped.

why?
there is nothing I know of in the parasites character that suggests they would want to kill billions

All Star Superman is at planet moving levels.

this is physics I suppose. How strong would one need to be to move a planet?? (as so far in all star supes he hasn't demonstrated this).

1) So you're saying that you prefer Wonder Woman and J'onn to be much weaker than Superman, correct?

Yes.

2) A hero can be the best without being the most powerful.

To be honest thats not really true.
The best hero should be able to deal with the greatest range of threats (seems a fair enough basis for judging).
Power levels are generally what determine the level of threat you face.

 

[gildea]

I will never understand how anyone can ever be satisfied with an inanimate green rock as a threat. When someone uses kryptonite on Superman, as a reader, why the hell would you want to see a boring scene where all the villain does is stand there while Superman struggles in pain?

Good writing wouldn't make it interesting.

That simple.

If Metallo is going to have a body powered by kryptonite (people always forget that he didn't even have green k for most of his career), than I'd prefer it if he actually uses his fists as much as he uses the radiation. It's much more dynamic and exicting that way.

Oh I agree with that.

 

[The Question]

It goes far beyond being just a "green rock."

It's his home. Peaces of his legacy are lethal to him. That's one Hell of a metaphor: not only are you, at your core being, alone on this planet, not only is everything you should have been born into long destroyed, not only is the very stuff that made up your family spread out across the universe, but what is left f***ing kills you. People and comic characters loves to say, "his heart, not Kryptonite, is the best way to hurt Superman," but Kryptonite does just that. It strikes at his heart.

It's still a lame plot device. I'd rather have Superman be in a fight with someone whi can match him than get weak around Kryptonite.

why?
there is nothing I know of in the parasites character that suggests they would want to kill billions

Except the fact that he randomly kills people all of the time.

this is physics I suppose. How strong would one need to be to move a planet?? (as so far in all star supes he hasn't demonstrated this).

He hasn't actually moved a planet, but he's at planet moving levels. All Star is meant to be Pre Crisis Superman at his peak.

Yes.

Why?

To be honest thats not really true.
The best hero should be able to deal with the greatest range of threats (seems a fair enough basis for judging).
Power levels are generally what determine the level of threat you face.

It's not a fair basis for judging. How good a hero you are is dependant solely on your non physical atributes. Your mind and your heart. Someone could have Superman's powers and be the worst hero in the world because of his aditude and how he uses them. Wheras Superman could lose his powers and still be one of the best because of what he stands for and believes in.

 

[gildea]

It's still a lame plot device. I'd rather have Superman be in a fight with someone whi can match him than get weak around Kryptonite.

We can have BOTH you know.

Except the fact that he randomly kills people all of the time.

No parasite isn't a joker/carnage type psycho, if he kills there is a reason. He isn't simply a murder he has ambitions beyond that.

He hasn't actually moved a planet, but he's at planet moving levels. All Star is meant to be Pre Crisis Superman at his peak.

Not really for example he can't go through the sun (which even post cripes supes can do, oddly enough i never liked the whole going throu the sun thing). Thats why I asked the physics question we KNOW his strength level but does anyone know if thats enough to move a planet and what size of planet? Planet moving is a very misleading thing, the differences in moving saturn and pluto are enormous.

Why?

Already answered but i'll repeat. Simply if I want to read about someone at mm or ww power levels (or the myriad of generic heroes around those levels) I'll read THEIR comics. I want to read about the TOP level of superhero, not the level loads of other people are at. There are, as you point out, many other comics that cater to that power level.

It's not a fair basis for judging. How good a hero you are is dependant solely on your non physical atributes.

Sorry I completely disagree. For example Cap America is a great hero but if brainiac comes to town I want superman to take him on not cap. But this continues below.

Your mind and your heart. Someone could have Superman's powers and be the worst hero in the world because of his aditude and how he uses them.

He's not a hero then. You're also implying that I'm saying personality doesn't matter it obviously does I just didn't touch on it because power levels where the thrust of discussion. Of course I include strength of personality as a 'power' of its own anyway so I was impicitly assuming he would be the standard setter for that also.
I concede I should have been clearer.

Wheras Superman could lose his powers and still be one of the best because of what he stands for and believes in.

Though I answer this above I just want to point out "one of the best" yes maybe but I want him to be THE best.

 

[The Question]

We can have BOTH you know.

I simply prefer the former. And I really don;t see what;s so great about the latter.

No parasite isn't a joker/carnage type psycho, if he kills there is a reason. He isn't simply a murder he has ambitions beyond that.

He's not a serial killer, but he's got a damned impressive body count. He's essentially a blue collar thug thrill seeker with super powers. He's the type who gets into a barroom brawl for fun. It's just with him, he ends up killing everyone in the bar. He's often been known to kill people for fun. Hell, one time a group of criminals were breaking him out of prison, and he showed his graditude by draining them all to death.

Not really for example he can't go through the sun (which even post cripes supes can do, oddly enough i never liked the whole going throu the sun thing). Thats why I asked the physics question we KNOW his strength level but does anyone know if thats enough to move a planet and what size of planet? Planet moving is a very misleading thing, the differences in moving saturn and pluto are enormous.

He's still at planet moving strength levels in All Star. The fact that he can't go through the sun doesn;t effect his strength levels.

Already answered but i'll repeat. Simply if I want to read about someone at mm or ww power levels (or the myriad of generic heroes around those levels) I'll read THEIR comics. I want to read about the TOP level of superhero, not the level loads of other people are at. There are, as you point out, many other comics that cater to that power level.

I don;t see why Superman can't be equal with Wonder Woman and J;onn and still be the greatest.

Sorry I completely disagree. For example Cap America is a great hero but if brainiac comes to town I want superman to take him on not cap. But this continues below.

As would I. But that doesn't make him the greatest. I'd rather have The Hulk take on The Juggernaut, but I think Captain America is still the greatest hero in Marvel.

He's not a hero then. You're also implying that I'm saying personality doesn't matter it obviously does I just didn't touch on it because power levels where the thrust of discussion. Of course I include strength of personality as a 'power' of its own anyway so I was impicitly assuming he would be the standard setter for that also.
I concede I should have been clearer.

But his morals are all that counts in the "greatest hero" arguement. Someone can be the most powerful hero in the world and still be a compkete dick.

Though I answer this above I just want to point out "one of the best" yes maybe but I want him to be THE best.

How much power he has doesn't relate to how good a hero he is. Way I see it, Superman can be the best and still be equal with Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter. And really, I prefer it that way. I want Clark to have peers, not subordinates.