I feel like DC still doesn't know what they're doing

[DieSmiling]

I think it's pretty clear WB doesn't know what they're doing as far as a structured long term plan is concerned. Doesn't mean they don't have some good ideas and that some of the things they're doing won't be great but yeah, there's really no way to spin that they have come coherent vision. I mean, they've "announced" in some capacity 20 or so DC related projects and I'm willing to bet half of them never get made. They're just throwing tons of ideas out there and it's not clear what has priority and what's actually going to get made.

At this point I'd say there are no guarantees after Aquaman -- certainly more DC films will come out but even counting Shazam I don't think there are any projects (other than Wonder Woman 2) I can confidently say will happen. Are people even confident, for instance, that the Rock will ever actually appear in a movie as Black Adam? Guy has been linked to the role for what seems like 5 years and there's zero progress on a film featuring him and now he's supposedly not even going to be in the Shazam movie.

Obviously it's disappointing because with the success of Wonder Woman and the positioning of Geoff Johns you'd hope they'd be on the right track (and in some ways, creatively, I think they are) but it still seems like kind of a rudderless ship without a captain in firm command.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

If they screw up JL, or make it mediocre......well that will be proof that really they don't know what they're doing.

I agree, JL is going to be the indicator. WB/DC have experienced in turn reasonable, poor, and outstanding reviews for the DCEU efforts so far. They've built themselves an escape-hatch with the upcoming Flashpoint movie where they can alter anything they think needs altering after JL, but really they should by now have a good idea of the direction in which to to steer the ship.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Are people even confident, for instance, that the Rock will ever actually appear in a movie as Black Adam? Guy has been linked to the role for what seems like 5 years and there's zero progress on a film featuring him and now he's supposedly not even going to be in the Shazam movie.

Have to say I have the same feeling.

 

[random_havoc]

If you are flat out admitting that they're just throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks then you have no business arguing against people saying that they have no plan, unless your idea of a plan is simply "make random movies based on DC properties".

This. Pretty well summarises why I started this thread

 

[Frodo]

I think they're worried about how JL is going to be perceived and they're floating trial balloons ahead of time to gauge reaction from fanboys. They know something unpleasant my be coming around the bend and they want to be prepared to have something better in the aftermath.

Given all the nerd rage over the idea of a separate division of films , I wouldn't be surprised if the Joker origin film goes the way of MOS 2 , Nightwing, and GCS, and JLD. They'll keep talking about doing it, but eventually it will fade away. I doubt the Harley and Joker film is gonna happen and i'm even more skeptical Flashpoint will happen.

Right now the sure bets, it would seem, are Aquaman, The Batman, WW2, and Batgirl.

Everything else is talk as far as i'm concerned. I think JL will determine the fate of alot of these ideas and wishes.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

I think WB has pretty much written off Justice League as the last remnant of the Snyderverse and are planning on moving forward in a new direction no matter what happens to Justice League. Obviously it will make money but if it is a critical flop the WB can claim it was a holdover from the last regime and in the future the movies will be more of a Wonder Woman style of movie. And if it gets decent reviews then WB can claim that they have already righted the ship. So basically Justice League is just a blip on the radar.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I doubt the Harley and Joker film is gonna happen and i'm even more skeptical Flashpoint will happen.

I agree about Harley/Joker (although I'm sure we will see plenty more of Robbie's Harley in the DCEU) but I think Flashpoint will happen. How much it affects the DCEU though will hinge I think on JL and Aquaman.

I think WB has pretty much written off Justice League as the last remnant of the Snyderverse and are planning on moving forward in a new direction no matter what happens to Justice League. Obviously it will make money but if it is a critical flop the WB can claim it was a holdover from the last regime and in the future the movies will be more of a Wonder Woman style of movie. And if it gets decent reviews then WB can claim that they have already righted the ship. So basically Justice League is just a blip on the radar.

Exactly.

 

[jmc]

A blip on the radar. We live in a world where a Thor solo film is garnering more positive build up than DC all-star film. What a ringing endorsement for the brand this is.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

We live in a world where a Thor solo film is garnering more positive build up than DC all-star film.

Not in my house!

 

[Osiris-Rex]

A blip on the radar. We live in a world where a Thor solo film is garnering more positive build up than DC all-star film. What a ringing endorsement for the brand this is.

Really? I haven't heard much about a Thor film. Most the news I see is about Justice League. What are they saying about the Thor movie and who and where are they saying it?

 

[jmc]

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/thor-ragnorak-justice-league-social-media-buzz-1202504534/

 

[Tg11]

After the global success of Wonder Woman as a DCEU film I think it is safe to say that DC knows what they are doing but it all comes down to timing to be honest and just the fleshing out of good stories. However, if they can keep the same tone that Wonder Woman had then I think other DCEU films in the future will be just fine. It really all boils down to the writers and having a good director behind the films too.

 

[DrCosmic]

I think it's important to remember that DC is not a united entity under the direction of a single creative force, and as such, it is impossible for DC to know what it's doing any more than it's possible for your neighborhood to know what it's doing. YOU might know what you're doing, and do a really good job, but that doesn't mean that your neighbors will join in in support/duplication.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

After the global success of Wonder Woman as a DCEU film I think it is safe to say that DC knows what they are doing but it all comes down to timing to be honest and just the fleshing out of good stories. However, if they can keep the same tone that Wonder Woman had then I think other DCEU films in the future will be just fine. It really all boils down to the writers and having a good director behind the films too.

Well it showed that Jenkins knew what she was doing! t: But yes, I agree - as long as WB/DC can show that they've learnt from that (and I say that as someone who liked MoS and BvS).

 

[Frodo]

One way or another , all these proposals and announcement signal , that the studio is likely moving back to the stand alone films paradigm and away from the MCU paradigm of everything having to be consistent with everything else.

Whether its a new division with "elseworlds films" or , more likely, films like The Batman , MOS, and WW which are fairly isolated from the larger DCEU, WB is clearly done trying to emulate the MCU paradigm. That doesn't mean they're blowing up the DCEU. It does mean that the DCEU won't be a creative shackle on other filmmakers who'll want to tell their own stories.

The filmmaker/creative freedom model with Jenkins, Reeves, and Whedon seems to be where there headed whether fans like it or not.

That's model that's worked most successfully for them in the past , and if anything, trying to emulate the MCU has made things more complicated than it was just doing stand alone films with visionary directors.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

One way or another , all these proposals and announcement signal , that the studio is likely moving back to the stand alone films paradigm and away from the MCU paradigm of everything having to be consistent with everything else.

Yes, that's very possible.

That's model that's worked most successfully for them in the past , and if anything, trying to emulate the MCU has made things more complicated than it was just doing stand alone films with visionary directors.

I definitely agree with that.

 

[Frodo]

The MCU works in large part because the films are good, not because Cap 3 can reference what happened in AOU. If anything, I think fans across the board overestimate the importance of the films being connected as a reason for the MCU success with the GA.

Its that the brand has a reputation from solid films with the GA. They're good films. Its that simple.

Its the reason why WW was such a hit. It was a good film.

I think after a struggling with the shared -pre planned -everything is connected paradigm, they probably realize their old way worked much better for them and they got better results.

That's not to say that WB hypothetically couldn't have made it work, but we're dealing with the reality of how WB has been structured , what their history is, and the talent they have on hand.

 

[Batmannerism]

The MCU works in large part because the films are good, not because Cap 3 can reference what happened in AOU. If anything, I think fans across the board overestimate the importance of the films being connected as a reason for the MCU success with the GA.

Its that the brand has a reputation from solid films with the GA. They're good films. Its that simple.

Its the reason why WW was such a hit. It was a good film.

Totally agree with this. I'm a die-hard fan of Batman and Superman - but to be honest the MCU as a whole - compared to the DCCU, well it ain't even close.

The thing is, even Marvel's worst films are merely mediocre - not actually bad. Well, okay, personally I hated Iron Man 2 and 3 - but a lot of people thought they were okay and even then they aren't anywhere near as **** as Suicide Squad - I mean did anyone come out of that singing the praises of any performance, except maybe Margot Robbie ? I ain't heard nobody saying "Wow, Will Smith was awesome as Deadshot, and Jai Courtney as Boomerang....can't get enough of it."

All this talk of Suicide Squad sequels, Gotham Sirens, Justice League Dark and solo Joker films show that DC doesn't understand the simple truth that it needs to get its main characters right (i.e. make enjoyable films about them). What's frustrating is that WW is conclusive proof of that .....but whoever's in charge at DC doesn't seen to be paying attention.

Meanwhile Supergirl and the Flash have been largely enjoyable on TV (and we've even had a terrific TV Superman, if but briefly). Please someone at WB pay attention !


Ugh.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

As someone who has defended BVS only to get slapped in the face by Suicide Squad, I am firmly in the camp that WB doesn't really know what they're doing.

I want the DCEU to succeed, but it's growing incredibly hard to support their approach as time passes.

I love Bats and Sups, but Marvel has given us a better Superman with Captain America and a better Batman with Daredevil. There isn't really a lot of reasons to stick around.

 

[Rike]

I think they're... umm.... developing movies

Spoiler

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Totally agree with this. I'm a die-hard fan of Batman and Superman - but to be honest the MCU as a whole - compared to the DCCU, well it ain't even close.

The thing is, even Marvel's worst films are merely mediocre - not actually bad. Well, okay, personally I hated Iron Man 2 and 3 - but a lot of people thought they were okay and even then they aren't anywhere near as **** as Suicide Squad - I mean did anyone come out of that singing the praises of any performance, except maybe Margot Robbie ? I ain't heard nobody saying "Wow, Will Smith was awesome as Deadshot, and Jai Courtney as Boomerang....can't get enough of it."

All this talk of Suicide Squad sequels, Gotham Sirens, Justice League Dark and solo Joker films show that DC doesn't understand the simple truth that it needs to get its main characters right (i.e. make enjoyable films about them). What's frustrating is that WW is conclusive proof of that .....but whoever's in charge at DC doesn't seen to be paying attention.

Meanwhile Supergirl and the Flash have been largely enjoyable on TV (and we've even had a terrific TV Superman, if but briefly). Please someone at WB pay attention !


Ugh.

Whilst I agree with pretty much everything you've said, I have heard and seen a lot of praise for Courtney as Boomerang (he was an unexpected highlight for me too).

 

[The Joker]

Totally agree with this. I'm a die-hard fan of Batman and Superman - but to be honest the MCU as a whole - compared to the DCCU, well it ain't even close.

The thing is, even Marvel's worst films are merely mediocre - not actually bad. Well, okay, personally I hated Iron Man 2 and 3 - but a lot of people thought they were okay and even then they aren't anywhere near as **** as Suicide Squad - I mean did anyone come out of that singing the praises of any performance, except maybe Margot Robbie ? I ain't heard nobody saying "Wow, Will Smith was awesome as Deadshot, and Jai Courtney as Boomerang....can't get enough of it."

All this talk of Suicide Squad sequels, Gotham Sirens, Justice League Dark and solo Joker films show that DC doesn't understand the simple truth that it needs to get its main characters right (i.e. make enjoyable films about them). What's frustrating is that WW is conclusive proof of that .....but whoever's in charge at DC doesn't seen to be paying attention.

Meanwhile Supergirl and the Flash have been largely enjoyable on TV (and we've even had a terrific TV Superman, if but briefly). Please someone at WB pay attention !


Ugh.

Bravo. Well said.

 

[Consona]

Jai Courtney as Boomerang....can't get enough of it."

But Courtney as Boomerang was fab. t:


Anyway, WB do not know what they are doing, agreed.
Just give me my final Snyder DCEU pic and then do whatever you want. Snyder's MoS and BvS were what made me interested. SS was what it was, but I enjoyed its twisted pulp grit more than majority of "much better" MCU films, that's just a fact. WW is over-rated as f**k, I think MoS and BvS are vastly superior films. So give me this "still true to Zack's vision yet we've fired a guy who co-scored MoS and BvS"/"we'll reshoot Cyborg's story because it was too dark" JL of yours so I can at least enjoy some glimpses of Snyder's work and then...dunno, just try to make something interesting rather than "great fun MCU-like" films.

 

[writer0327]

It seems strange that all the goodwill DC bought itself after WW has been washed away.

 

[wnjcwjkk]

Not gonna argue whether they're just throwing s*** at the wall, because that remains to be seen. Seems like a lot of random, switching decisions and announcements, so it is completely justified to feel this way. We won't really know until we see the products.


Having said that, I've thought since the beginning that they should have their main narrative, based on the big properties, and then maybe make some films connected to that, if it fits, but also remain free to make any film they feel like (elseworlds or alternate interpretations). In other words, their films don't HAVE to fit into the main universe narrative

It's cool what Marvel is doing, every single film and show is connected to the main universe. For D.C., I feel like that would kinda dilute and water down their main story. Take away some of the impact of it.


But the main thing is, if every film has to be connected to that universe, it limits the creativity and kind of stories they can tell. Every Marvel film has pretty much the same tone, for example. And they would also have to make sure everything they do fits into the main established DCEU. Every character they create is going to be that version of the character across all films.

So I think it's a cool idea to free them up to tell different kinds of stories or present different incarnations or interpretations of the characters. Some people love the Flash CW series, and I'm not taking anything away from it. But to have that Flash be the version in the DCEU would bring every other character along with him, and stifle both the creativity of the films and the TV show