I feel like DC still doesn't know what they're doing

jmc said:
This is true, however if you're trying to build a brand it's also important to have something of a vision to get the audience invested. If we look at Marvel we see a pretty clear path to Avengers each phase, with Lucasfilm we see a clear path of alternating between Star Wars episodes and Star Wars stories, with Pixar you've got a clear pattern of strong characters and unique animated worlds. Consistency is what helps build an audience. The problem with WB and their plan is that it's never been stable and you can't expect to hold on to an audience with instability. If your company has a history of inconsistency it's never going to reach its potential, so it's hard for people to get excited when they see what looks on paper to be a random selection of films.
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I'm not sure if you're just waxing poetic about what Marvel has done, or saying DCEU has no vision. I don't agree, if that's the case. There's a fairly clear "path" to JUSTICE LEAGUE, and the relevant story and themes in the DCEU have been pretty well developed. It's not the largely feel good, rah-rah version the Marvel films presented of heroism, but there is a clear story developing nontheless.

If there's been no consistency in these movies, then why did SUICIDE SQUAD make as much as it did? Why did WONDER WOMAN clean up at the box office?

There is clearly something audiences like about the "dark and serious" DCEU, it just needs to be fine tuned a bit so it can be a bit more critically successful.

The DCEU's problem would appear to be critical reaction (or was, until WONDER WOMAN). Not audience interest.
 
wb is becoming a clusterf.keeping leto as joker is bad enough but poential in 3 films?the worst joker ever?and another joker film in seperate contunity.

the batman a seperate contunity film?ok most are seeing affleck is likely gone
after JL inless he cameos in flashpoint.

the seperate contunity films is getting to cause me to scratch my head.

look i feel flashpoint could explain affleck depture like the report says they were looking to address this onscreen.minute i heart flashpoint at comic con light went off in my head.

so what is going on now is aquaman and wonder woman sequels part of eceu and joker film and matt reves the batman seperate stand alone contunitys:csad:
 
Frodo said:
Well I dont disagree with anything you've said . I actually think the reason several of the films have been underwhelming is due in large part to trying the shared universe paradigm which fanboys wanted. They have been shifting and changing all along , but then again, my concern isn't about an overall plan of a shared universe. Its about making good films.

So while I agree they've stumbled with the shared universe , I see that as a sign that maybe what is best for WB going forward isn't focus on a shared universe, but just making good films. The goal shouldn't be about a destination or a framework for a franchise. It needs to be about putting out good films. Period.
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This is so ridiculous. That's like saying DC shouldn't have a shared comic universe because at times they've F'ed up their continuity in the comics. The problem isn't the shared universe, it's that they're so badly managed that they didn't do it well. The best thing isn't making it disconnected in the same way that having none of their comics connected would make those better. The problem with BvS wasn't that it was part of a shared universe, it was that they let Snyder write and direct it. Just like the problem with Justice League that they had to do extensive reshoots isn't that it's connected, it's that they were stupid enough to let Snyder do it after he brutally crashed and burned with BvS already.
There's nothing stopping them from putting out good AND connected films except their own incompetence. Sure, taking away the connected part would make it easier, but that just shows they aren't very good creators in the first place if they're just not good enough to know how to do what Marvel already gave them the friggin model to do on a silver platter.
 
random_havoc said:
This is so ridiculous. That's like saying DC shouldn't have a shared comic universe because at times they've F'ed up their continuity in the comics. The problem isn't the shared universe, it's that they're so badly managed that they didn't do it well. The best thing isn't making it disconnected in the same way that having none of their comics connected would make those better. The problem with BvS wasn't that it was part of a shared universe, it was that they let Snyder write and direct it. Just like the problem with Justice League that they had to do extensive reshoots isn't that it's connected, it's that they were stupid enough to let Snyder do it after he brutally crashed and burned with BvS already.
There's nothing stopping them from putting out good AND connected films except their own incompetence. Sure, taking away the connected part would make it easier, but that just shows they aren't very good creators in the first place if they're just not good enough to know how to do what Marvel already gave them the friggin model to do on a silver platter.
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Apart from saying my whole comment was ridiculous, which in itself is ridiculous, I don't disagree with many you've made. You can have interconnected films and good movies. I do think trying to make an interconnected film universe was a big part of the problem WB had , not because the idea is bad itself, but because they couldn't pull it off and probably we'rent ready to. What they can pull off well are self contained films along the lines of WW and TDK trilogy which is why they're going to led with their strength in those type of films as opposed to overtly universe building films.

That's not saying they couldn't have pulled it off if there were different factors at play, but we're dealing with the way things are now the ability they have now, not what we wish or would have liked them to be able to do.

That's why I think they're going to focus more on just trying to make good stand alone films . My point is that the goal shouldn't be interconnected films and universe building over everything else, it should be good films first and foremost. That's what Marvel's goal is. To make good films. No one denies the MCU is a good model on how to do it. The point is to use the best model or formula that works for each studio.

The reality is WB isn't throwing out the shared universe and I'm not even arguing that they should, so I don't see why you would bring the analogy of tossing out DC comics continuity. That's not even an issue on the table. I want good films regardless of how they effect the time line of another film or a structure of a shared universe.

I want a good WW2 and I want a good Joker Origin elseworlds film, and I want both of them to focus on the story at hand and I don't want them to focus on building things up toward something else at the expensive of the film .

The issue alot of fans seem to have is this idea of another banner of films out of continuity, which are standalone.
 
Leo is what? 42, 43? How does this fit for a Joker "Origin" story?
 
Not to mention his facial features are all wrong for the Joker.
 
If Romero and Nicholson were fine in the role, Leo should be fine too.
 
Just wish 'media & film' related sites would stop this Ben in / out flip flop routine.
 
Mandon Knight said:
Just wish 'media & film' related sites would stop this Ben in / out flip flop routine.
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I wish they would stop on him being out.

I will say, though, that if he is in The Batman, I'll be less tolerant of it than I was before being led to believe he was out, it wasn't in the DCEU, etc. Don't toy with my emotions, Batman.
 
The Guard said:
I'm not sure if you're just waxing poetic about what Marvel has done, or saying DCEU has no vision. I don't agree, if that's the case. There's a fairly clear "path" to JUSTICE LEAGUE, and the relevant story and themes in the DCEU have been pretty well developed. It's not the largely feel good, rah-rah version the Marvel films presented of heroism, but there is a clear story developing nontheless.

If there's been no consistency in these movies, then why did SUICIDE SQUAD make as much as it did? Why did WONDER WOMAN clean up at the box office?

There is clearly something audiences like about the "dark and serious" DCEU, it just needs to be fine tuned a bit so it can be a bit more critically successful.

The DCEU's problem would appear to be critical reaction (or was, until WONDER WOMAN). Not audience interest.
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I'm talking from a branding perspective. Here's thing about brands, you can launch with all the bell and whistles you have and might get a good response initially, but the issue is long term you've still got to produce a quality product otherwise people will start to lose interest as has been demonstrated with recent film franchises. Here's the thing with all the films, MoS, BvS, and SS box office was due to marketing, WW box office was due to quality. WW not only had the best box office staying power of the DCEU, it's had the best staying power of any superhero film since the original Spider Man. But there's only so many times a savvy marketing campaign can win people over, at a certain stage people catch on to the game and start turning away. Quality is far more important in the long term. WB knows this themselves by the fact one of the execs saying the DC brand was being damaged by bad movies.
 
jmc said:
I'm talking from a branding perspective. Here's thing about brands, you can launch with all the bell and whistles you have and might get a good response initially, but the issue is long term you've still got to produce a quality product otherwise people will start to lose interest as has been demonstrated with recent film franchises. Here's the thing with all the films, MoS, BvS, and SS box office was due to marketing, WW box office was due to quality. WW not only had the best box office staying power of the DCEU, it's had the best staying power of any superhero film since the original Spider Man. But there's only so many times a savvy marketing campaign can win people over, at a certain stage people catch on to the game and start turning away. Quality is far more important in the long term. WB knows this themselves by the fact one of the execs saying the DC brand was being damaged by bad movies.
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See the massive decline in the box office of franchises like POTC and Transformers. Eventually if the quality isn't there audiences start staying away.
 
That's exactly right. You get to a point where people just don't buy into what you're selling anymore, and to think that can't happen here with DC characters is silly.
 
When you have a well-received movie it takes less marketing effort to create interest for the next one. WW 2 automatically has an audience because of the response to WW.
 
STARMAN said:
When you have a well-received movie it takes less marketing effort to create interest for the next one. WW 2 automatically has an audience because of the response to WW.
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This is true. But the rest of DC cannot ride this WW wave forever. Maybe JL and the other films that Wonder Woman appears in, but what about the rest?
 
Don't forget that, even if JL benefits from WW hype, that only works once if JL isn't also actually good. If JL is crap, then it largely means future movies can't stick WW in and hope for better results. Not once the audience has learned that the character they like can't make a bad movie not-bad.
 
The Guard said:
If there's been no consistency in these movies, then why did SUICIDE SQUAD make as much as it did? Why did WONDER WOMAN clean up at the box office?

There is clearly something audiences like about the "dark and serious" DCEU, it just needs to be fine tuned a bit so it can be a bit more critically successful.
Click to expand...

I suppose that's why Wonder Woman was their most profitable film? Because it was the most dark and serious?
 
metaphysician said:
Don't forget that, even if JL benefits from WW hype, that only works once if JL isn't also actually good. If JL is crap, then it largely means future movies can't stick WW in and hope for better results. Not once the audience has learned that the character they like can't make a bad movie not-bad.
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Exactly. What the MCU and DCEU have shown is that audiences will turn out to see popular heroes, but what makes them come back for more and more are interesting, well told stories.

And WB/DC really and truly understands that, but they don't have a vision for what to do with their universe and also it appears their directors want nothing to do with a shared universe.
 
writer0327 said:
This is true. But the rest of DC cannot ride this WW wave forever. Maybe JL and the other films that Wonder Woman appears in, but what about the rest?
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I was specifically talking about the WW franchise and how the positive response to the first one already boosts the inevitable sequel.

In terms of JL, it once again comes down to the movie. A good movie is the best form of advertising. It's also the cheapest. Good word of mouth costs no money and the residual effects allow a movie to market itself.
 
STARMAN said:
I was specifically talking about the WW franchise and how the positive response to the first one already boosts the inevitable sequel.

In terms of JL, it once again comes down to the movie. A good movie is the best form of advertising. It's also the cheapest. Good word of mouth costs no money and the residual effects allow a movie to market itself.
Click to expand...

The thing is the WW franchise is a part of the DCEU, so it's difficult to separate them. Undoubtedly, one will affect the other.
 
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