The Dark Knight I guess joker just applies make-up after all

[Crook]

No it's not. You can apply logic to something, that doesn't make it realistic.

Logic was applied to the inhibitor chip, as well as tritium powering a potential sun to sustain nuclear fusion in Spider-Man 2. Yet all of that is still unrealistic. Applying logic to things like this only gives the illusion of being realistic. Batman Begins did a great job of it.

log·ic [loj-ik]
–noun
1. the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
2. a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.
3. the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.
4. reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move.
5. convincing forcefulness; inexorable

Under 1, 3, and 5, you'd be wrong. Majority rule.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Hey hey hey, I was only going by number 2.

 

[Some Dude]

Okay, I apologize for using the word "realistic" but I think my point still stands.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Quite so, I agree.

 

[nickyg641]

The fact that he looks different in each picture only seems to compliment the idea of The Joker wearing makeup. As I said in another thread, if he applies makeup and dye each day, it's of'course going to look different from time to time. Some days he's in a hurry and does a poor dye job, which would explain why his brown roots are showing. Other days he takes his time applying the makeup and hair dye, and it looks far more neat, as in the latest picture.

Well, the panda eyes and the lipstick are obviously makeup. And I would assume the green is dye. These are the only really inconsistent things. White, however would be harder to tell. It's just white. It's not a particular shape or size, just white.

So, if everything else is makeup, there's still the possibility of white being permanent. Slim, but possible.

To be honest, I don't think having a dude running around with make-up on all the time is that realistic. Using it as a disguise for a robbery is one thing, but there has to be a logical reason given beyond that.

Nolan made sure that Scarecrow wearing a mask made logical sense. It was shown that he used it in conjunction with the fear toxin and as a gas mask. Nolan didn't just settle for the "oh, he's an eccentric bad guy" reason.

Having part of the Joker's face perma-white would give him a sound reason to fill the rest of his face out with make-up.

Basically, he has to be hiding something with the make-up or it's going to come off as dumb, especially with how serious everyone is apparently taking the Joker's portrayal in this movie.

I guess I would agree with you. "'Cause he's crazy" seems to be the automatic excuse around here for anything out-of-character that TDK's Joker seems to do i.e. messy makeup. Given the comic character's narcissism and great care for his appearance, it would seem quite out of character for him to just not give a **** about his appearance, which seems to be the case in TDK (especially in a scene like the party-crashing, where his makeup + dye seem to be at its sloppyest, what with the hair that's only about 1/4 green and all. Comic book-Joker would take special care to make sure he looked his best before crashing a party.)

I mean, you could argue that he's crazy, and maybe messy to us is beautiful to him. But, then again, you could also argue that wearing a tight gold-and-red striped leotard with fishnet stockings and hiking boots is beautiful to him, "because he's crazy". Just because he's crazy, doesn't mean any thought spewing from the mind of Christopher Nolan suddenly becomes in-character.

 

[MaceB]

OMG, at this second - the poll is 50/50. Wicked awesome.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I guess I would agree with you. "'Cause he's crazy" seems to be the automatic excuse around here for anything out-of-character that TDK's Joker seems to do i.e. messy makeup. Given the comic character's narcissism and great care for his appearance, it would seem quite out of character for him to just not give a **** about his appearance, which seems to be the case in TDK (especially in a scene like the party-crashing, where his makeup + dye seem to be at its sloppyest, what with the hair that's only about 1/4 green and all. Comic book-Joker would take special care to make sure he looked his best before crashing a party.)

I mean, you could argue that he's crazy, and maybe messy to us is beautiful to him. But, then again, you could also argue that wearing a tight gold-and-red striped leotard with fishnet stockings and hiking boots is beautiful to him, "because he's crazy". Just because he's crazy, doesn't mean any thought spewing from the mind of Christopher Nolan suddenly becomes in-character.

I don't see what's "out of character" about The Joker. He has make-up instead of white skin, but this is a visual element rather than a character one. And I don't see what's particularly "messy" about the look. Certainly not enough to call it "out of character" for The Joker. Judging from what we've heard about the character so far, this seems set to be the most "in character" Joker ever seen outside of the comics.

I would say The Joker being insane would be enough to justify him dressing up like a hellish clown. It's enough to justify him doing so in the comics. And while you can argue all you want about how The Joker dressing up in leotards and fishnet stockings is out-of-character, it's a moot point, because we already know he wears a purple suit straight out of the comics.

 

[Nivek]

I don't see what's "out of character" about The Joker. He has make-up instead of white skin, but this is a visual element rather than a character one. And I don't see what's particularly "messy" about the look. Certainly not enough to call it "out of character" for The Joker. Judging from what we've heard about the character so far, this seems set to be the most "in character" Joker ever seen outside of the comics.

As was stated a while here ago by many fans, a messy Joker is pretty out of character. I think if the make-up design was more clean (instead of looking like he applied it in the backseat of a car without a mirror), the cheek scars were more sunk in than puffed out (like the Captain in Pans Labyrinth), you wouldn't get the negative reaction from fans and the general public.

The Jokers a classy dude, not some half-drunk Crow/ICP fan going to a concert with Pancake make-up hastily applied. I know Nolan is trying to go for something unique and put his spin on it, but if it's not the "OMG, it's NOT make-up" thing, then it's pointless.

 

[Keyser Soze]

As was stated a while here ago by many fans, a messy Joker is pretty out of character. I think if the make-up design was more clean (instead of looking like he applied it in the backseat of a car without a mirror), the cheek scars were more sunk in than puffed out (like the Captain in Pans Labyrinth), you wouldn't get the negative reaction from fans and the general public.

The Jokers a classy dude, not some half-drunk Crow/ICP fan going to a concert with Pancake make-up hastily applied. I know Nolan is trying to go for something unique and put his spin on it, but if it's not the "OMG, it's NOT make-up" thing, then it's pointless.

I don't see the Crow/ICP thing. Or it looking a total mess either. I see a white face, green hair, and a purple suit. Basically, I see The Joker. The most immediately-apparent visual change is the long hair, which I don't think is a big deal.

EDIT: Plus, where is this "negative reaction from the general public" coming from? All the movie magazines and whatnot love the look, and talk about how dark and sinister it is. Also, everyone I've talked to likes it. Not that this means much, as I've noticed that everyone who likes the look knows a bunch of non-comic fans who happen to like the look, and everyone who doesn't like it know a bunch of non-comic fans who happen to share their distaste.

 

[Nivek]

I don't see the Crow/ICP thing. Or it looking a total mess either. I see a white face, green hair, and a purple suit. Basically, I see The Joker. The most immediately-apparent visual change is the long hair, which I don't think is a big deal.

How can you NOT see a Crow/ICP look? I'm sorry, maybe I dont equate any old clown/Pantomime make-up immediately to the Joker, but Nolans look is like something out of a drunken Juggalo or Crow fan picture you would see on some 16 year olds my space page. Hell, most of these Halloween pics show how crappy this look is.

EDIT: Plus, where is this "negative reaction from the general public" coming from? All the movie magazines and whatnot love the look, and talk about how dark and sinister it is. Also, everyone I've talked to likes it. Not that this means much, as I've noticed that everyone who likes the look knows a bunch of non-comic fans who happen to like the look, and everyone who doesn't like it know a bunch of non-comic fans who happen to share their distaste.

I've heard from plenty of regular people who think it looks like s#!t. Contrary to what some Nolan leg humpers want to believe, Jacks Joker is THE definitive public Image of the Joker. When you have some guy who looks like he has a smashed cake on his face, people will notice it doesn't look Dark, it just looks sloppy.

 

[TheBatman072]

Contrary to what some Nolan leg humpers want to believe

Heh. Wow.

 

[contemporarydog]

I don't see the Crow/ICP thing. Or it looking a total mess either. I see a white face, green hair, and a purple suit. Basically, I see The Joker. The most immediately-apparent visual change is the long hair, which I don't think is a big deal.

EDIT: Plus, where is this "negative reaction from the general public" coming from? All the movie magazines and whatnot love the look, and talk about how dark and sinister it is. Also, everyone I've talked to likes it. Not that this means much, as I've noticed that everyone who likes the look knows a bunch of non-comic fans who happen to like the look, and everyone who doesn't like it know a bunch of non-comic fans who happen to share their distaste.

Furthermore, this Joker, makeup or 'permawhite', looks cool as ****. That's the most important thing. With this new pic he already looks 50 x as stylish as Jack's Joker, and I think it will go down well with the public regardless of whether he is permawhite. I think most casual film goers would be astounded to see this topic get such a ginormous thread...

 

[king Nav]

definate make up
he's just a mad man in make up
the pictures prove this!

 

[Keyser Soze]

How can you NOT see a Crow/ICP look? I'm sorry, maybe I dont equate any old clown/Pantomime make-up immediately to the Joker, but Nolans look is like something out of a drunken Juggalo or Crow fan picture you would see on some 16 year olds my space page. Hell, most of these Halloween pics show how crappy this look is.

Most of the Halloween pics show how much better (and more Joker-like) the actual make-up looks on Heath Ledger than it does with the fanmade Joker costumes.

I could see your point if The Joker's make-up was always the mess it is in the leaked pics of the interrogation room. THAT'S a mess. But it seems tidy enough in the rest of the pics we've seen. And again, as a Batman fan, when I see a white face with red lips and green hair, I tend to think "Joker" before I think "Crow" or "ICP". Acting like his movie look is unregonisable as The Joker is just being melodramatic.

I've heard from plenty of regular people who think it looks like s#!t. Contrary to what some Nolan leg humpers want to believe, Jacks Joker is THE definitive public Image of the Joker. When you have some guy who looks like he has a smashed cake on his face, people will notice it doesn't look Dark, it just looks sloppy.

Good thing it doesn't look like a smashed cake then.

And again, you've proved my point. How everyone who hates The Joker's look knows a bunch of people who all hate it too. It's a strange phenomenom. And I am part of this strage trend, as any regular person I've shared the pictures with has loved them, and is pumped for The Joker. By sharing the marketing campaign with non-fans, I've made them want to see "The Dark Knight". People who hadn't even seen "Begins" went out and bought the DVD purely on their response to the Joker pics I showed them, and in one case I was asked to recommend a comic that would introduce them to Batman - I recommended "The Long Halloween".

And yes, to the general public, Jack IS The Joker. I've said it myself. Overcoming that perception will be a FAR bigger hurdle than comparitively minor issues like a cut-smile or make-up. But that said, much of the praise for this Joker stems from the fact that he IS different from Jack. The general impression is that he looks darker, edgier, more dangerous.

 

[brobdingnag]

I'm not even gonna watch the movie.

I probably will when its on free tv but no, I won't go to the theatre to see this or in any way give them any money for this. But, did you need the joker makeup issue to reach this conclusion? I knew after snoozing through Begins that I wouldn't be seeing any more Bats films by this director.

 

[king Nav]

bats was boring
we need some hip hop in tdk
u know bruce listening to hip hop, going clubbing, meeting some girls and fighting a few villians in between

that will make batman more up to date -2007 u know!

 

[TheBatman072]

I probably will when its on free tv but no, I won't go to the theatre to see this or in any way give them any money for this. But, did you need the joker makeup issue to reach this conclusion? I knew after snoozing through Begins that I wouldn't be seeing any more Bats films by this director.

Then...why are you here?

 

[CeeJay]

Second that.

 

[brobdingnag]

log·ic [loj-ik]
–noun
1. the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
2. a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.
3. the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.
4. reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move.
5. convincing forcefulness; inexorable

Under 1, 3, and 5, you'd be wrong. Majority rule.

Sorry, but you are wrong. Nothing contained in the definition of logic has anything to do with the concept of realism.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I probably will when its on free tv but no, I won't go to the theatre to see this or in any way give them any money for this. But, did you need the joker makeup issue to reach this conclusion? I knew after snoozing through Begins that I wouldn't be seeing any more Bats films by this director.

As much as I disagree with you on "Begins" - which I thought was an excellent movie - I have to say that not liking "Begins" is a more valid reason to not see "The Dark Knight" than boycotting it purely because of The Joker makeup issue.

Odds are, if you didn't like the tone set with "Batman Begins", you won't like this one either. That's fine, different strokes for different folks. Plenty of us DID love "Begins", and WILL be going to see "The Dark Knight" when it arrives in cinemas July 2008. I hope you find another film that's better suited to your tastes.

 

[brobdingnag]

Then...why are you here?

Well this is a board for discussing the films. Even you should be able to figure that out without help.

 

[TheBatman072]

Well this is a board for discussing the films. Even you should be able to figure that out without help.

Sigh. Here we go.


You hated Begins. You've already decided that you won't see any more Bat-movies directed by Chris Nolan.


I say again, why are you here? You're obviously not here to discuss anything, becuase you hated the first movie and have no intention on seeing the second.

Do you just want us to KNOW that? Are you so desperate and craved for attention that you MUST let us no that you will not be seeing this movie? That you MIGHT see it on free tv? MAYBE?

 

[brobdingnag]

Plenty of us DID love "Begins", and WILL be going to see "The Dark Knight" when it arrives in cinemas July 2008. I hope you find another film that's better suited to your tastes.

Really? And I thought that everyone would just give up on the movie because I have lol. Anyway, Iron Man looks much more promising even with its anti american vibe, also Watchmen looks like it will be a good film (not as good as the novel of course).

 

[king Nav]

bats was boring
we need some hip hop in tdk
u know bruce listening to hip hop, going clubbing, meeting some girls and fighting a few villians in between

and batman needs to hang aound more blacks , he needs a click u know
that will make batman more up to date -2007 u know!

 

[brobdingnag]

Sigh. Here we go.


You hated Begins. You've already decided that you won't see any more Bat-movies directed by Chris Nolan.


I say again, why are you here? You're obviously not here to discuss anything, becuase you hated the first movie and have no intention on seeing the second.

Do you just want us to KNOW that? Are you so desperate and craved for attention that you MUST let us no that you will not be seeing this movie? That you MIGHT see it on free tv? MAYBE?

Well if you actually read the post (which you clearly havent) you'll see that my point was to ask someone else who isnt going to see the movie why they are basing it all on the Joker's makeup. I know the grownup world where people have different opinions is scary, but when you become an adult you'll learn that no matter how many tantrums you throw people just arent going to do or think as you tell them.