The Dark Knight I guess joker just applies make-up after all

[Keyser Soze]

So for 3/4 of the movie, he's just a normal looking man, those sadistic acts were done by a nutter who applies white makeup and then at the end of the film he's conviently bleached the same color as the makeup he applies everyday.

I'm not going for it. The way I see it, he's either perma-white since the beginning of the film and just wears flesh toned makeup as a disguise, or he's normal toned and wears white makeup throughout the entire movie. The "bleached in the very end" is bad for a number of reasons. My most important reason being that he basically wouldn't even become FULL Joker until the last act of the movie and he's only been said to have a small part in Batman 3. So that would mean we'd only get to see full Joker at the very end of this film and a minimal role in Batman 3.

I'd expect The Joker to have a large role in part 3, even if he steps back to being a secondary villain for Two-Face.

 

[TromaFreak64]

I've seen "Be A Clown". The Joker DISGUISES himself as a friendly clown. Note the horror on the face of the mayor's child when The Joker removes his disguise...

Exactly.

 

[Victarion]

So I would assume when Joker lifts the mask, he has the makeup on...

-Morzan

 

[Figs]

So for 3/4 of the movie, he's just a normal looking man, those sadistic acts were done by a nutter who applies white makeup and then at the end of the film he's conviently bleached the same color as the makeup he applies everyday.

I'm not going for it. The way I see it, he's either perma-white since the beginning of the film and just wears flesh toned makeup as a disguise, or he's normal toned and wears white makeup throughout the entire movie. The "bleached in the very end" is bad for a number of reasons. My most important reason being that he basically wouldn't even become FULL Joker until the last act of the movie and he's only been said to have a small part in Batman 3. So that would mean we'd only get to see full Joker at the very end of this film and a minimal role in Batman 3.

It doesn't have to happen at the very end, it could happen around the halfway point. Just like it was for Batman in BB. As far as the small part in the third film, what they say they want for it until they actually start writing/filming it are two different things. For all they know Warner Bros. might want to keep Joker in it a lot more.

 

[Tournée d'adieu]

I keep going back to that original high res picture of the Joker where his head is blurry...it seems all white there, but as I said, it's very blurry.

 

[Mr. Socko]

It doesn't have to happen at the very end, it could happen around the halfway point. Just like it was for Batman in BB. As far as the small part in the third film, what they say they want for it until they actually start writing/filming it are two different things. For all they know Warner Bros. might want to keep Joker in it a lot more.

Very true.

 

[Keyser Soze]

As far as the small part in the third film, what they say they want for it until they actually start writing/filming it are two different things. For all they know Warner Bros. might want to keep Joker in it a lot more.

Well said. I don't see how giving The Joker a large role in the third film would be a problem. The key is just to give him something new and interesting to do.

 

[stlblues84]

Motiveless hatred is not easy.

It isn't. But the teaser suggests that is exactly what we're getting in this film. "Some men can't be reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men, just want to watch the world burn."

 

[Penismightier]

It isn't. But the teaser suggests that is exactly what we're getting in this film. "Some men can't be reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men, just want to watch the world burn."

Isn't that he wants to watch the world burn a motive?

 

[nickyg641]

Yeah, all he did in Batman #1 was kill, kill, kill. Same with "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge" and "The Laughing Fish". Kill, kill, kill. When I read these stories, I thought "Yeah, The Joker is EXACTLY like Michael Myers here."




This argument has been used over and over, but it doesn't make it an less wrong.

With Two-Face, the disfigurement IS the character. It's the cause of his psychosis, the crux of the whole character. It's even his name: a man with two faces. The Joker's different. It's not his disfigurement that defines him. His APPEARANCE, yes, but not how he gets that appearance. What's iconic about The Joker is the white skin, the green hair, the red lips. Arguably the purple suit. All are present and correct, only with a different twist on them.

With Two-Face, his obsession with duality is tied in directly with his disfigurement. With The Joker, there's no real indication that his utter disdain for life, his twisted worldview that anything that anybody holds dear is nothing more than a sick joke, is tied in with his chemical bath. In the movie, he's most likely not even going to have an origin. For all we know, he could have been psychotic long before the chemical bath.




There have been set reports that...

Spoiler

When The Joker blows up the hospital, he was spotted inside the building dressed in a pink nurse's uniform.

If you need the character to be "fun", then I'd say that about counts for that. Also, we already know The Joker will have "a taste for the theatrical".

As for this idea that The Joker looks "harmless", I just don't see it. The Joker is a character who (the campy years aside) has always played off that primal fear of clowns. "There's nothing funny about a clown at midnight," and all that. But if you require that ambiguity, it's still there to a degree. From a distance, The Joker looks like a smiling clown, with a big huge grin. It's only when you get close that you realise the "grin" is actually scars going across his mouth.

See, I disagree with that. The scarring didn't make Two-Face. It released Two-Face, and inspired his obsession with duality. Years of abuse from his father created Two-Face.

Same with the Joker. The scarring didn't make the Joker. He was already mentally unstable, but the scarring just served as the straw that broke the camel's back, and inspired his obsession with clowns (in his first origin, he saw the clownlike appearance and ran with it, rather than having a previous association with clowns).

See? Same thing (to me, at least).

Mentally unstable individual + accident = insane criminal persona

 

[Keyser Soze]

See, I disagree with that. The scarring didn't make Two-Face. It released Two-Face, and inspired his obsession with duality. Years of abuse from his father created Two-Face.

Same with the Joker. The scarring didn't make the Joker. He was already mentally unstable, but the scarring just served as the straw that broke the camel's back, and inspired his obsession with clowns (in his first origin, he saw the clownlike appearance and ran with it, rather than having a previous association with clowns).

See? Same thing (to me, at least).

Mentally unstable individual + accident = insane criminal persona

If we're talking origins, you could say the cut-smile could serve as a substitute for the chemical bath, in that it "pushed him over the edge", made him see something clownlike in his appearance, and led him to reinvent himself accordingly. But that's only if you're interested in origins.

Like I said, I want The Joker to have no origin, no explanation. As a result, HOW he got to look the way he does (whether it be make-up or bleach) isn't so significant to me as how he IS as The Joker: his appearance, his actions, and his characterisation.

 

[Penismightier]

If we're talking origins, you could say the cut-smile could serve as a substitute for the chemical bath, in that it "pushed him over the edge", made him see something clownlike in his appearance, and led him to reinvent himself accordingly. But that's only if you're interested in origins.

Like I said, I want The Joker to have no origin, no explanation. As a result, HOW he got to look the way he does (whether it be make-up or bleach) isn't so significant to me as how he IS as The Joker: his appearance, his actions, and his characterisation.

Some might say that how he got his skin bleached is how he IS as The Joker. The bleaching is part of the character's theme, but I suppose Nolan could come up with an entirely new theme for the character.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Some might say that how he got his skin bleached is how he IS as The Joker. The bleaching is part of the character's theme, but I suppose Nolan could come up with an entirely new theme for the character.

I think how he looks and how he acts are at the very core of the character. The idea of the chemical bath, of his skin being bleached to make him that way, are, as you put it a "theme" of the character. I do think it's possible to, as you suggest, come up with a different "theme" for the character, that still ultimately serves to the same end.

From what we've seen and heard, I think we're very much getting The Joker in this film. But it's a new story, in a new medium, and they're taking a new approach.

 

[CaptainClown]

One thing that has always bothered me with the whole concept of him being Joker in the end. What are the odds of him being dyed white, when he was dressing up in white throughout the movie. It is like Sandman when he stumbled upon a secret military project. I mean I like the idea but there is that wall to consider.

 

[nickyg641]

If we're talking origins, you could say the cut-smile could serve as a substitute for the chemical bath, in that it "pushed him over the edge", made him see something clownlike in his appearance, and led him to reinvent himself accordingly. But that's only if you're interested in origins.

Like I said, I want The Joker to have no origin, no explanation. As a result, HOW he got to look the way he does (whether it be make-up or bleach) isn't so significant to me as how he IS as The Joker: his appearance, his actions, and his characterisation.

What if Two-Face acted EXACTLY as he did in the comics, did the same things, was brilliantly written, but painted his face. He would still be schizofrenic, but just didn't have scarring. How would you feel about that?

And, as I've said before, I really don't think the cut smile is enough to cause someone to go insane, let alone make them an insane clown. I would say smiling isn't really the characteristic most strongly associated with clowns. There are plenty of "sad clowns", anyway.

As an addition to permawhite, it's really perfect. On it's own, it's really weak.

 

[CaptainClown]

What if Two-Face acted EXACTLY as he did in the comics, did the same things, was brilliantly written, but painted his face. He would still be schizofrenic, just, didn't have scarring.

And, as I've said before, I really don't think the cut smile is enough to cause someone to go insane, let alone make them an insane clown. I would say smiling isn't really the characteristic most strongly associated with clowns. There are plenty of "sad clowns", anyway.

As an addition to permawhite, it's really perfect. On it's own, it's really weak.

Well its a deforming scar, and if you were a handsome guy. That scar really isn't going to help get the ladies. If the character is really vain then ya I could understand it.

 

[Penismightier]

I think how he looks and how he acts are at the very core of the character. The idea of the chemical bath, of his skin being bleached to make him that way, are, as you put it a "theme" of the character. I do think it's possible to, as you suggest, come up with a different "theme" for the character, that still ultimately serves to the same end.

From what we've seen and heard, I think we're very much getting The Joker in this film. But it's a new story, in a new medium, and they're taking a new approach.

Yes, which is why I said Nolan is possibly coming up with a new theme for the character. And by theme I mean the point of the character. And if they're taking a new approach, can we still very much be getting The Joker? It's a philosophical question that only Nolan can answer, and the fans have to react to his decisions.

 

[nickyg641]

Well its a deforming scar, and if you were a handsome guy. That scar really isn't going to help get the ladies. If the character is really vain then ya I could understand it.

I'm sure there would be a lot more psychotic clown murderers in the world if you could go insane from something like that, even if you are mentally unstable.

 

[CaptainClown]

I'm sure there would be a lot more psychotic clown murderers in the world if you could go insane from something like that, even if you are mentally unstable.

Well the characters motif is Clowns. For whatever reason he likes it. Now with that cut smile he has a loose resemblance to one of the things he was pretending to be. You also have to consider that Joker is probably very mentally unstable. So the whole collection of his clown alter ego, his mental instability and his deforming scar might all add up.

I mean I really don't know how many psychotic clowns are out there in the world. There was at least one I know of.

 

[Keyser Soze]

What if Two-Face acted EXACTLY as he did in the comics, did the same things, was brilliantly written, but painted his face. He would still be schizofrenic, but just didn't have scarring. How would you feel about that?

And, as I've said before, I really don't think the cut smile is enough to cause someone to go insane, let alone make them an insane clown. I would say smiling isn't really the characteristic most strongly associated with clowns. There are plenty of "sad clowns", anyway.

As an addition to permawhite, it's really perfect. On it's own, it's really weak.

The difference is that Two-Face's appearance is instantly recognisable as SCARRING. The very fact that his face is scarred is his most distinct visual characteristic. It can change from pink to purple to red to green to blue, but it's always scarred.

The Joker's distinct facial characteristic is that its WHITE. Not scarred. White. You can make your face white make-up. You can't scar and unscar yourself at will.

 

[nickyg641]

Well the characters motif is Clowns. For whatever reason he likes it. Now with that cut smile he has a loose resemblance to one of the things he was pretending to be. You also have to consider that Joker is probably very mentally unstable. So the whole collection of his clown alter ego, his mental instability and his deforming scar might all add up.

I mean I really don't know how many psychotic clowns are out there in the world. There was at least one I know of.

Well, I think he'll probably have the scarring before the movie, and, thus, before the clown robberies

 

[Keyser Soze]

Well the characters motif is Clowns. For whatever reason he likes it. Now with that cut smile he has a loose resemblance to one of the things he was pretending to be. You also have to consider that Joker is probably very mentally unstable. So the whole collection of his clown alter ego, his mental instability and his deforming scar might all add up.

I mean I really don't know how many psychotic clowns are out there in the world. There was at least one I know of.

One thing I like about the cut-smile is its ambiguity. Did he get the scar, and that made him lose his mind? Or had he already lost his mind, and he scarred himself for fun? I hope they don't spoil this sense of mystery by having him get the scar during the film.

 

[CaptainClown]

Well, I think he'll probably have the scarring before the movie, and, thus, before the clown robberies

There was talk that it happens during the bank robbery. We won't know until the movie comes out, or there is another leak. I doubt they would have a scar that seems to heal throughout a movie. You might be right though.

 

[nickyg641]

The difference is that Two-Face's appearance is instantly recognisable as SCARRING. The very fact that his face is scarred is his most distinct visual characteristic. It can change from pink to purple to red to green to blue, but it's always scarred.

The Joker's distinct facial characteristic is that its WHITE. Not scarred. White. You can make your face white make-up. You can't scar and unscar yourself at will.

Wehether it looks like it or not, it's scarring. And the Joker can't take it off.

 

[CaptainClown]

One thing I like about the cut-smile is its ambiguity. Did he get the scar, and that made him lose his mind? Or had he already lost his mind, and he scarred himself for fun? I hope they don't spoil this sense of mystery by having him get the scar during the film.

Well what appeals to me is that Batman's inexperience caused his cable to break and slice Joker at the mouth. That is his cause for obsessing about Batman, then affect his sanity.