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The Dark Knight I guess joker just applies make-up after all

What do you think of the latest pic of heath ledger as mista J?

  • Yes its fine that he's a regualr guy that applies white make-up

  • No because his skin should be bleached like its always been


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In the context of this franchise...*sigh*...that's what does it for me.

Not the stance that Mr. Nolan is having the Joker apply makeup because he believes it could possibly be an improvement and a great change...but the possibility that he has done it because of certain 'realistic boundaries' he has set and now obliged to follow. . .

True but I think we just have to wait and see. Like I've said before we have to see the context Nolan is putting this Joker into. And not just the context of realism, but his story as well. In time. In time.
 
Maybe, but maybe not. Either way, his deformity destroys any perception of humanity. If he just had normal skin they might just give him the gas chamber. (Also, putting on makeup to get ready for a crime could be seen as premeditation--making his crimes seem more calculated). But, because he looks like he does, people assume he's insane and send him to Arkham.

Nein. Society doesn't kill him because of his ACTIONS. They deem him insane because of his ACTIONS. They don't spare the man because of his face.
 
True but I think we just have to wait and see. Like I've said before we have to see the context Nolan is putting this Joker into. And not just the context of realism, but his story as well. In time. In time.
I can't wait to see that (still out there)Joker interact with the more "normal" character of the franchise, like Gordon or Alfred. Man, this is going to be good.
 
I have always thought The Joker should NOT have a permanent smile. That it is the acts he does, the way he gets off on them, causes this freakish twitchy "grin" to occur. I think that would kick so much more ass than a permanent one or the appearance of such.
 
Nein. Society doesn't kill him because of his ACTIONS. They deem him insane because of his ACTIONS. They don't spare the man because of his face.

So you'd honestly say the appearance has NO bearing on things at all?

I think that's selling his appearance short. But, whatever. Different strokes and all that.
 
i honestly dont care if joker wears makeup anymore, he looks awesome!!
 
Well I much prefer that Joker's appearance is an outlet of his insanity rather than it being the cause of his insanity. I think the change was made so that the themes of Begins could be more easily developed with the Joker. It strongly implies that he's using the look as a conscious tool to control the way Gotham perceives him, same as Batman. The way he uses TV broadcasts and manipulates the media is really recognizing Batman's game and taking it to the next level of theatricality, using the same tools to destroy Batman's reputation. Although they'll have to be careful to show that the Joker isn't just a persona created for more mundane ends.
 
So you'd honestly say the appearance has NO bearing on things at all?

In terms of how society views him? Not a bit compared to his actions.
 
I have always thought The Joker should NOT have a permanent smile. That it is the acts he does, the way he gets off on them, causes this freakish twitchy "grin" to occur. I think that would kick so much more ass than a permanent one or the appearance of such.

I've always believed in the live action forms, these artistic choices were done for the simple purpose of making the Joker's smile 1) Appear larger than it actually is and 2) visually makes it appear as if he is always smiling from afar. In the original 60s series, Romero simply wore lipstick that extended past his lips. Nicholson wore a grin prosthetic that made it look as if he mouth cheeks were always pulled back. And now Heath has been given a cut grin and his lipstick goes over the scars. In context, I think they all work pretty well.
 
I've always believed in the live action forms, these artistic choices were done for the simple purpose of making the Joker's smile 1) Appear larger than it actually is and 2) visually makes it appear as if he is always smiling from afar. In the original 60s series, Romero simply wore lipstick that extended past his lips. Nicholson wore a grin prosthetic that made it look as if he mouth cheeks were always pulled back. And now Heath has been given a cut grin and his lipstick goes over the scars. In context, I think they all work pretty well.


I completely agree. It's ALL about context. What works for the comics is AWESOME, but what worked for the comics wasn't what worked for the cartoons, movies, etc....
 
In terms of how society views him? Not a bit compared to his actions.

Fair enough. I disagree.

I think if he didn't look the way he did, his actions would lead to a different end result than Arkham every time. I think that if somebody who looked more normal/human busted into Barbara Gordon's apartment and shot her and whatnot, they'd get sent to prison or worse. So--for me--the permanent nature of his appearence does affect the character.

But nobody in this thread is changing anybody else's mind, and the dead horse is pretty beaten by this point.
 
Fair enough. I disagree.

I think if he didn't look the way he did, his actions would lead to a different end result than Arkham every time. I think that if somebody who looked more normal/human busted into Barbara Gordon's apartment and shot her and whatnot, they'd get sent to prison or worse. So--for me--the permanent nature of his appearence does affect the character.

But nobody in this thread is changing anybody else's mind, and the dead horse is pretty beaten by this point.



OMG dude. The way I've always seen the Joker represented in the comics and even in the cartoon was that he was just a guy who had a badday (evil before the transformation or otherwise) who EMBRACED his insanity...call that sympathetic if you want, but the only person who's ever held that opinion of him in the DC universe was Harley Quinn. And if you're basing his character on his white makeup, on whether he'd get sent to arkham or prison, that is just ignorant. The Mad Hatter, Riddler, Scarecrow, and Calender man all got sent to Arkham and they have no deformities. That aside, to me the character needs white skin. Whether or not it's permanent is contextual.
 
OMG dude. The way I've always seen the Joker represented in the comics and even in the cartoon was that he was just a guy who had a badday (evil before the transformation or otherwise) who EMBRACED his insanity...call that sympathetic if you want, but the only person who's ever held that opinion of him in the DC universe was Harley Quinn. And if you're basing his character on his white makeup, on whether he'd get sent to arkham or prison, that is just ignorant. The Mad Hatter, Riddler, Scarecrow, and Calender man all got sent to Arkham and they have no deformities. That aside, to me the character needs white skin. Whether or not it's permanent is contextual.

No, I'm saying that I think that the Joker is completely sane and completely evil. The accident freed him to act on his true nature. But I think that the fact that he looks so messed up means that people think he'll never be reformed, so they send him to Arkham. I think his appearence helps with the perception of insanity. But hey, "ignorant" works for me, too.
 
Here's my point: Wouldn't society worry more about the man's ACTIONS than his "deformity"?

Absolutely YES, to your question. But the truth is appearnance makes an outstanding difference in society's views...especially in the subject of skin tone/race. To a casual Batman fan like myself, I've only seen Joker as an evil guy who has white skin and green hair. The lips aren't even that important to me. But when someone has abnormally different skin and hair, it's abnormal to society. It's like a new race or something. It automatically differienciates normal and abnormal. Black/white/asian/spanish/etc....we're all seen as different by a large majority just by the element of our appearance. But it's normal because it's real and you born with it. Born a man with white skin/green hair and it's unreal/abnormal to us. It's even more abnormal than an albino just because of the abnormally green hair.

The fact that you're stuck looking like something different is much different than being able to change. Being able to change a deformity to something more humane (flesh toned skin) makes you more human...or less abnormal. When you take away that permanent aspect/appearnace, you take away the tragedy of an abnormality.

Question: What do you think gives a character more dimension? What character inflicts you with more curiousity? A man who applies makeup to LOOK abnormally different? Or the looks of a man born, permanantly created/changed that IS abnormally different?
 
No, I'm saying that I think that the Joker is completely sane and completely evil. The accident freed him to act on his true nature. But I think that the fact that he looks so messed up means that people think he'll never be reformed, so they send him to Arkham. I think his appearence helps with the perception of insanity. But hey, "ignorant" works for me, too.


Why don't you email DC comics and ask them if he's insane.
 
Why don't you email DC comics and ask them if he's insane.

Some writers take that angle, slick. There's a good Paul Dini/Alex Ross story, Case Study that sets the idea out. Same with Justice. And in Dark Knight Returns, Batman says he thinks that there's nothing wrong with the Joker than he can't fix with his hands.

But if you want fire off an email, knock yourself out.
 
look at today's new joker pic. the debate is over. he is not a normal-faced guy wearing just makeup. his face is friggen rotting off from pic to pic it's getting worse. maybe the makeup is his own blend and it's transforming him INTO a freak unintentionally because he doesn't take it off and it's toxic. that i could handle.
 
look at today's new joker pic. the debate is over. he is not a normal-faced guy wearing just makeup. his face is friggen rotting off from pic to pic it's getting worse. maybe the makeup is his own blend and it's transforming him INTO a freak unintentionally because he doesn't take it off and it's toxic. that i could handle.

Pretty much, yes. In a way, we got both Perma-white and makeup.
 
welll the new empire pic is IMO whne the truck flips over. and the truck scene is after he jumps on the party at bruces's house where he had 100% white face.

so many question and not enough info.

but where is the f..... trailer. tomorrow is the december.
 
Pretty much, yes. In a way, we got both Perma-white and makeup.

i like the new irony of him accidentally turning himself into a permanent clown by his obsession with vanity- continually applying makeup to keep his pristine clown image.
 
Fair enough. I disagree.

I think if he didn't look the way he did, his actions would lead to a different end result than Arkham every time.

I think you're a bit naiive about the way society treats criminals and why.

I think that if somebody who looked more normal/human busted into Barbara Gordon's apartment and shot her and whatnot, they'd get sent to prison or worse. So--for me--the permanent nature of his appearence does affect the character.

Yes, if that's all he'd done, he might get sent to prison. But The Joker has done far more than shoot one person, and had done far more before he hurt Barbara. If that person who looked normal had the list of crimes The Joker has...he'd be sent to an insane asylum, just as he is in the comics.

Think of it this way: People who wear scary masks to commit bank robberies or rapes and murders don't always get to sent to insane asylums. People who commit insane crimes on the other hand...do.

It's not the visuals.

It's the actions.

Absolutely YES, to your question. But the truth is appearnance makes an outstanding difference in society's views...especially in the subject of skin tone/race.

To a casual Batman fan like myself, I've only seen Joker as an evil guy who has white skin and green hair. The lips aren't even that important to me. But when someone has abnormally different skin and hair, it's abnormal to society. It's like a new race or something. It automatically differienciates normal and abnormal.

Sure does. He's abormal in appearance. I won't argue that. But they don't lock The Joker in Arkham instead of sending him to prison because he looks like a clown. They lock him away because of the nture of his crimes. They perceive him as insane.

Black/white/asian/spanish/etc....we're all seen as different by a large majority just by the element of our appearance. But it's normal because it's real and you born with it. Born a man with white skin/green hair and it's unreal/abnormal to us. It's even more abnormal than an albino just because of the abnormally green hair.

The fact that you're stuck looking like something different is much different than being able to change. Being able to change a deformity to something more humane (flesh toned skin) makes you more human...or less abnormal. When you take away that permanent aspect/appearnace, you take away the tragedy of an abnormality.

The Joker's look may well be considered an abnormality, and I won't argue that but we don't send people to asylums because they look differnt. We send them there because they cannot seem to control their actions, and their actions frighten and confuse us.

It is not about the visuals.

Question: What do you think gives a character more dimension? What character inflicts you with more curiousity? A man who applies makeup to LOOK abnormally different? Or the looks of a man born, permanantly created/changed that IS abnormally different?

The first one. Because I immediately ask myself "Why does he do this? Why does a normal person take it upon himself to become this grotesque parody of life? Why would someone with nothing to lose otherwise become something so horrible?

Someone born or saddled with a defect is someone born or saddled with a defect. There's no mystery, and no depth to that person's appearance. It's just something that happened to them.

Far more interesting is the person who CHOOSES to look like that.
 
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