The Dark Knight I guess joker just applies make-up after all

[regwec]

No stretch of imagintation is required for The Joker to use laughing gas/Nitruous Oxide to kill people. The substance and technology exists in the here and now. Was the sarin attack on the Japanese underground unrealistic?

One might claim that, coupled with The Scarecrow's gasses, The Joker's use of the same tools might seem repetitive, but I would argue that it actually just makes the imaginary Gotham seem more believable, if The Joker is adapting existing hardware with a backstory and an existing niche in the narrative. It seems better to me than inventing something new.

 

[nickyg641]

Jim Lee's Joker looked rather dishevelled too.

But even if more often than not he's presented with a snappy dess-sense (most of that wardrobe being intact in the film, might I add) I don't think it's a "pillar" of the character. It's mainly important in conjunction with his sense of showmanship, his actions having a theatrical pinache. And judging by the viral campaign alone, that is very much intact.

Yeah, I guess you're right. Not so much a pillar as it is, maybe, a lighting fixture of the character.

No stretch of imagintation is required for The Joker to use laughing gas/Nitruous Oxide to kill people. The substance and technology exists in the here and now. Was the sarin attack on the Japanese underground unrealistic?

One might claim that, coupled with The Scarecrow's gasses, The Joker's use of the same tools might seem repetitive, but I would argue that it actually just makes the imaginary Gotham seem more believable, if The Joker is adapting existing hardware with a backstory and an existing niche in the narrative. It seems better to me than inventing something new.

Yeah, I've thought that since the beginning. I always thought it would be cool if the Joker kidnaps Crane and forces him to create it for him, once again making him a pawn.

 

[nickyg641]

Edit

 

[Keyser Soze]

No stretch of imagintation is required for The Joker to use laughing gas/Nitruous Oxide to kill people. The substance and technology exists in the here and now. Was the sarin attack on the Japanese underground unrealistic?

One might claim that, coupled with The Scarecrow's gasses, The Joker's use of the same tools might seem repetitive, but I would argue that it actually just makes the imaginary Gotham seem more believable, if The Joker is adapting existing hardware with a backstory and an existing niche in the narrative. It seems better to me than inventing something new.

You have hit on the only way I could see laughing gas working in the film. Having Crane develop it with him. That way you're addressing the repetitiveness. But I'm still dubious about Gotham being gassed AGAIN.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Maybe Joker should churn the venom through the air supply throughout Gotham by an air condition emitter and face Batman on a high speeding bus about to crash into Wayne Towers in act 3.

 

[regwec]

"Gotham" per se doesn't have to be gassed- The joker could use it as a mid-range weapon, or even better, as an "insurance" against arrest, in the same way as The Professor in Condrad's The Secret Agent.

 

[nickyg641]

You have hit on the only way I could see laughing gas working in the film. Having Crane develop it with him. That way you're addressing the repetitiveness. But I'm still dubious about Gotham being gassed AGAIN.

Doesn't necessarily have to be gas. In the Joker's first appearance, it was a serum he injected into his victims.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Maybe Joker should churn the venom through the air supply throughout Gotham by an air condition emitter and face Batman on a high speeding bus about to crash into Wayne Towers in act 3.

"Gentlemen, time to spread the word. And the word is... laughter."

 

[The Sage]

Where has all this Joker Venom talk come from? It seems to be in every Joker thread!

We've been pretty sure for some time now it won't figure in the movie now, and nobody has seemed to be all that bothered about it, now all of a sudden for some it's the be-all-and-end-all of the character?

I like the laughing gas as much as the next guy, but Smylex was already used in "Batman". Plus, the evil plot of "Begins" centred around gas. It'd come across as repetitive.

Clearly I wasn't around for that discussion.

Joker using his patented Joker gas or venom is an important element. As for it coming across as repetitive, I don't really care. If it's a key part of the character, than it is what it is.

Besides, Batman attaching his bat-line to his belt after firing it from the grappling hook was used in "Batman", and it was used in Batman Begins. Batman utilizing a glider was used in "Batman Returns" and it was used in Batman Begins. Heck, the Waynes' death was scene in "Batman" and it was in Batman Begins.

If you don't want him to use gas, use injections. Or you can explain it as Joker corrupting the fear toxin.

 

[Mr. Socko]

"Gentlemen, time to spread the word. And the word is... laughter."

hehe

Clearly I wasn't around for that discussion.

Joker using his patented Joker gas or venom is an important element. As for it coming across as repetitive, I don't really care. If it's a key part of the character, than it is what it is.

Besides, Batman attaching his bat-line to his belt after firing it from the grappling hook was used in "Batman", and it was used in Batman Begins. Batman utilizing a glider was used in "Batman Returns" and it was used in Batman Begins. Heck, the Waynes' death was scene in "Batman" and it was in Batman Begins.

If you don't want him to use gas, use injections. Or you can explain it as Joker corrupting the fear toxin.

Is it anymore of an important key part of the character than, say...........bleached white skin?

 

[regwec]

Is it anymore of an important key part of the character than, say...........bleached white skin?

Of course not- almost all of the most important elements are missing.

 

[smatt584]

Is it anymore of an important key part of the character than, say...........bleached white skin?

Oh man, you should not have said that, i can already already hear the wolves at the gates...

 

[Keyser Soze]

Of course not- almost all of the most important elements are missing.

Hmmm.....

White face - intact
Green hair - intact
Red lips - intact
Permawhite skin - missing
Purple suit - intact
Insanity - intact
Sick sense of humor - intact
Master planner - intact
Laugh - intact
Joker Venom - missing

Some things are missing, yes, but I'd hardly say almost all are...

 

[The Sage]

Is it anymore of an important key part of the character than, say...........bleached white skin?

About the same.

 

[regwec]

Hmmm.....

White face - intact
Green hair - intact
Red lips - intact
Permawhite skin - missing
Purple suit - intact
Insanity - intact
Sick sense of humor - intact
Master planner - intact
Laugh - intact
Joker Venom - missing

Some things are missing, yes, but I'd hardly say almost all are...

Or-

- appearance- some successes in detail, overall failure.
- personality- largely unknown, but lacks the crucial vanity and narcissism
- physical nature- fail
- backstory- fail
- methods (venom(- fail.

I am actually looking forward to seeing how it plays out, and I have no doubt that it will be interesting, but it isn't The Joker, it's something new.

 

[Baba Ghanoush]

No stretch of imagintation is required for The Joker to use laughing gas/Nitruous Oxide to kill people. The substance and technology exists in the here and now. Was the sarin attack on the Japanese underground unrealistic?

One might claim that, coupled with The Scarecrow's gasses, The Joker's use of the same tools might seem repetitive, but I would argue that it actually just makes the imaginary Gotham seem more believable, if The Joker is adapting existing hardware with a backstory and an existing niche in the narrative. It seems better to me than inventing something new.

Yes, yes its plausible and will work but is it a wise path to take from a story and entertainment standpoint? Don't you think the repetitive plot will simply bore the audience despite it being carried out by a completely new and different character?

 

[regwec]

The gas doesn't have to be a "plot", it can just be something he does. His knife doesn't have to have a "plot", does it?

 

[Baba Ghanoush]

Or-

- appearance- some successes in detail, overall failure.
- personality- largely unknown, but lacks the crucial vanity and narcissism
- physical nature- fail
- backstory- fail
- methods (venom(- fail.

I am actually looking forward to seeing how it plays out, and I have no doubt that it will be interesting, but it isn't The Joker, it's something new.

Wanna inject some more detail into those classifications? They sound pretty over encompassing and generic.

 

[jimmy]

The Joker simply applies make-up to mask his homely facial features. He has very low self-esteem.

 

[Baba Ghanoush]

The gas doesn't have to be a "plot", it can just be something he does. His knife doesn't have to have a "plot", does it?

Ok ignore it as a plot device. Don't you think the audience will simply see gas and think "hasn't this been done already?"

We are talking about the average moviegoer here. Do you think its wise to take such a risk when its likely it will confuse the audience into thinking its been done before?

 

[Axtech]

Or-

- appearance- some successes in detail, overall failure.
- personality- largely unknown, but lacks the crucial vanity and narcissism
- physical nature- fail
- backstory- fail
- methods (venom(- fail.

I am actually looking forward to seeing how it plays out, and I have no doubt that it will be interesting, but it isn't The Joker, it's something new.

Appearance - details are there ... "failure" is a relative term. they weren't trying to match the comicbook Joker note-for-note, obviously.
Personality - if the viral and set reports are any indication, it's spot-on. Joker's vanity is hardly relevant to the successful depiction of his character. And I don't understand why you have reason to believe he won't be narcissistic.
Physical Nature - I don't know what this is supposed to entail that isn't covered in appearance..?
Backstory - If you're referring to permawhite, then yes, this is different. Otherwise the Joker doesn't have any definitive backstory, and from what we've heard he won't have one in this film.
Methods - Venom is ONE thing Joker uses some of the time. We have no indication that he definitely won't use it. And you can't really completely write off this aspect of his character based on that one omission anyways.

 

[regwec]

Wanna inject some more detail into those classifications? They sound pretty over encompassing and generic.

They are intended to be thematic, so that no false equivalence between the irrelevant and the essential is created. For instance, I do not think that the inclusion of The Joker's purple suit offers any compensation for the loss of his bleached skin.

 

[shapeshifter]

i can't wait until this movie comes out and these back and forth debates have answers

 

[Baba Ghanoush]

They are intended to be thematic, so that no false equivalence between the irrelevant and the essential is created. For instance, I do not think that the inclusion of The Joker's purple suit offers any compensation for the loss of his bleached skin.

In other words you're dodging having to get into details b/c then you potentially open yourself up to some contradictions. That's why they are "intended to be thematic."

 

[regwec]

Yeah, that would be a really simplistic and lazy reading of it.