The Dark Knight I guess joker just applies make-up after all

[Silver Souper]

it's such bull****. the FIRST thing the cops would do during arrest is get him to the station and WASH HIS FACE CLEAN for the mug shot. are we supposed to believe they'd shoot him IN HIS MAKEUP!?! No way in hell.

 

[Solidus]

I get it. I just think it sucks. It instantly makes me think Nolan is being arrogant and pushing drastic changes on these characters. There is NOTHING this permawhite joker couldn't do that a makeuped joker could. Ugh it sickens me.

Sucks that it does, but most seem fine with it.

As long as the spirit of the character remains that is what is important. For 70 years the Joker has gone through HUGE vast changes in his character and even at times in his personality. Change happens. People freak when it does. Then as time goes on if it is good and loved it becomes a classic years later.

Some wanted a different twist on the Joker and I see nothing wrong with that. To me I'm not going to repeat my full old post, but with the other Batman's the villains were more driven by the visual look where the costume's did more of the acting then the actual characters. Nolan focuses more on the 3D aspect that film can give, "acting" And bring the characters to life, to me to get the actors to act even more like their counterparts they do some what change/alter/dull down the costume so they are not the main focus on everything.

I would go into further detail but Socko knows how many times I've posted that lol, I've written a book on this thread it seems.

But most seem happy with this new interpretation of the Joker. A small percentage will be upset, but that happens for anything, you can't please em all, sad fact of life.

 

[Silver Souper]

Back in the nile eh!

i was already basking in the waters of said nile. but my point wasn't that he will be perma (in this most recent post), but that a perma is just as functional as a makeuped joker. therefore, there is no reason to strip the character of his core appearance especially when nothing is gained by it except a cocky actor getting to ramble on the special features about the "clown inside" vs. in appearance crap.

 

[lixdexia]

I get it. I just think it sucks. It instantly makes me think Nolan is being arrogant and pushing drastic changes on these characters. There is NOTHING this permawhite joker couldn't do that a makeuped joker could. Ugh it sickens me.

sure there is. he could...uh...take off his make upt:

 

[Mr. Socko]

happy to jump in

This is bad news: costume designer linda hemming says of the joker:

"He’s already scarred in the film, so the makeup comes from what he does to enhance that rather than to look like a clown.”

****ing ****. so the joker is a guy who only wants to "enhance his scarring"- and is not a clown looking freak? Great- Nolan and Co. just made him a flamboyant darkman.

I actually have no problem with this....

It's nothing that we haven't already known, and it also follows the Joker line of course as well.

In the comics, he falls into the vat of chemicals. It bleaches his skin white and all so he adopts the clown look and completes it with a purple suit.

This Joker is scarred, so he adopts a clown look and completes it with a purple suit...as well as makeup and a dye job.

 

[Solidus]

I don't mean on film, because, like you said, I trust Nolan enough not to show is that on film (though those set pics do make me worry a bit...). I'm really more speaking in hypotheticals. During the movie, I'm sure we won't be seeing his real face, but, in the universe he has created, you just think, it's got to come off sometime. Whether we see on film it or not, I just don't like the idea that that could happen. Know what I mean?

Yes I do, but I guess I don't do many hypothetical s outside the context as much

it's such bull****. the FIRST thing the cops would do during arrest is get him to the station and WASH HIS FACE CLEAN for the mug shot. are we supposed to believe they'd shoot him IN HIS MAKEUP!?! No way in hell.

Not necessarily. Sometimes with insane patients, or very hostile people they book, they wait until admittance to an insane asslyum to wash them. They usually do it right after they are booked and taken to county/regional cells.

And we know the Joker has information they take him to interrogation right away. There are circumstances where they need info first and foremost. With the Joker he kidnapped the Assistant DA they need to know where she is at.

Funny I actually learned something from one of my sociology classes

But yea with insane/dangerous patience they will take away weapons, but sometimes they are told to stay a distance and do not touch until the proper people take care of it.

 

[Silver Souper]

Sucks that it does, but most seem fine with it.

As long as the spirit of the character remains that is what is important. For 70 years the Joker has gone through HUGE vast changes in his character and even at times in his personality. Change happens. People freak when it does. Then as time goes on if it is good and loved it becomes a classic years later.

Some wanted a different twist on the Joker and I see nothing wrong with that. To me I'm not going to repeat my full old post, but with the other Batman's the villains were more driven by the visual look where the costume's did more of the acting then the actual characters. Nolan focuses more on the 3D aspect that film can give, "acting" And bring the characters to life, to me to get the actors to act even more like their counterparts they do some what change/alter/dull down the costume so they are not the main focus on everything.

I would go into further detail but Socko knows how many times I've posted that lol, I've written a book on this thread it seems.

But most seem happy with this new interpretation of the Joker. A small percentage will be upset, but that happens for anything, you can't please em all, sad fact of life.

well i appreciate your efforts, but more people should have a problem with it. it's no trivial change. I can't think of a more substantial change to the character's appearance unless you want to change his gender. Clothes are nothing- the joker we know is a bleached freak who wears tuxedos occasionally- and he's still 100% joker. What always remains is his freakish, unchangable condition. until now. thanks nolan.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Sucks that it does, but most seem fine with it.

As long as the spirit of the character remains that is what is important. For 70 years the Joker has gone through HUGE vast changes in his character and even at times in his personality. Change happens. People freak when it does. Then as time goes on if it is good and loved it becomes a classic years later.

Some wanted a different twist on the Joker and I see nothing wrong with that. To me I'm not going to repeat my full old post, but with the other Batman's the villains were more driven by the visual look where the costume's did more of the acting then the actual characters. Nolan focuses more on the 3D aspect that film can give, "acting" And bring the characters to life, to me to get the actors to act even more like their counterparts they do some what change/alter/dull down the costume so they are not the main focus on everything.

I would go into further detail but Socko knows how many times I've posted that lol, I've written a book on this thread it seems.

But most seem happy with this new interpretation of the Joker. A small percentage will be upset, but that happens for anything, you can't please em all, sad fact of life.

Praise Yahweh!

Just kidding Solidus, you always make solid points

i was already basking in the waters of said nile. but my point wasn't that he will be perma (in this most recent post), but that a perma is just as functional as a makeuped joker. therefore, there is no reason to strip the character of his core appearance especially when nothing is gained by it except a cocky actor getting to ramble on the special features about the "clown inside" vs. in appearance crap.

I agree except with the last part about "cocky actor rambling about clown inside etc". Feel free to dislike this Joker all you want but one bad word against Heath and I'll rip your lungs out, sugarbumps.

 

[Silver Souper]

sure there is. he could...uh...take off his make upt:

yeah- what a feat

I actually have no problem with this....

It's nothing that we haven't already known, and it also follows the Joker line of course as well.

In the comics, he falls into the vat of chemicals. It bleaches his skin white and all so he adopts the clown look and completes it with a purple suit.

This Joker is scarred, so he adopts a clown look and completes it with a purple suit...as well as makeup and a dye job.

i follow you but it's problematic because plenty of people have facial scarring. that's not so freakish. how many people besides michael jackson do you know that have been totally whitened?

Not necessarily. Sometimes with insane patients, or very hostile people they book, they wait until admittance to an insane asslyum to wash them. They usually do it right after they are booked and taken to county/regional cells.

And we know the Joker has information they take him to interrogation right away. There are circumstances where they need info first and foremost. With the Joker he kidnapped the Assistant DA they need to know where she is at.

Funny I actually learned something from one of my sociology classes

But yea with insane/dangerous patience they will take away weapons, but sometimes they are told to stay a distance and do not touch until the proper people take care of it.

you understand how much grief audiences are going to give that part in the movie if they leave him in makeup. I challenge you to find me proof of cops taking mugshots of people in masks or full character makeup. no way.

 

[Solidus]

well i appreciate your efforts, but more people should have a problem with it. it's no trivial change. I can't think of a more substantial change to the character's appearance unless you want to change his gender. Clothes are nothing- the joker we know is a bleached freak who wears tuxedos occasionally- and he's still 100% joker. What always remains is his freakish, unchangable condition. until now. thanks nolan.

Why should people have a problem with it? Should they have a problem with them changing the Joker to a prankster instead of a zodiac killer like he originally was in the 40's?

No change happens. Sorry you don't like it but most seem fine with it. It is not the only thing of the Joker to some people's eyes. There is so much more to the Joker then just being bleached. His mind is the most important aspect. And there are multiple ways he could of been before any deformity. They changed the nature of how he makes himself look more clown like, being a cut rather then bleach, but he still looks like the Joker.

Change happens all the time with characters. And nothing is wrong with change. There is no rule book on it. That is what being an artist is all about.

 

[lixdexia]

well i appreciate your efforts, but more people should have a problem with it. it's no trivial change. I can't think of a more substantial change to the character's appearance unless you want to change his gender. Clothes are nothing- the joker we know is a bleached freak who wears tuxedos occasionally- and he's still 100% joker. What always remains is his freakish, unchangable condition. until now. thanks nolan.

you really can't think of a more substantial possible change?!? how about if they dumped him in acid and his skin turned orange??? bottom line is he still LOOKS like the joker

 

[Silver Souper]

I agree except with the last part about "cocky actor rambling about clown inside etc". Feel free to dislike this Joker all you want but one bad word against Heath and I'll rip your lungs out, sugarbumps.

i meant director. as in nolan. cocky director nolan with his unnecessary changes.

 

[Solidus]

yeah- what a feat



i follow you but it's problematic because plenty of people have facial scarring. that's not so freakish. how many people besides michael jackson do you know that have been totally whitened?



you understand how much grief audiences are going to give that part in the movie if they leave him in makeup. I challenge you to find me proof of cops taking mugshots of people in masks or full character makeup. no way.

Well I'm sure not a lot of cops deal with THE most dangerous person who has killed hundreds of people and is absolutely insane that wears make up. But with insane patients or dangerous ones sometimes they try not to get too close right away. They try to ID them by Fingerprints and that is what matters first and foremost.

I mean look at No Country for Old Men, Anton was a nut job, and I bet if the cops knew how dangerous he was if he was wearing make up they might just leave him be until told otherwise.

I just say lets watch the movie and see what transpires. But you seem to want to hate it so go ahead. It aint gonna stop others from seeing it and enjoying it. And trust me I'm a huge Joker fan. Loved him for more then 20 years.

Clowns of the Joker "represent"

 

[Mr. Socko]

you really can't think of a more substantial possible change?!? how about if they dumped him in acid and his skin turned orange??? bottom line is he still LOOKS like the joker

Spoiler

i meant director. as in nolan. cocky director nolan with his unnecessary changes.

Gotcha

 

[CaptainClown]

well I am sorry you are not going to enjoy this interpretation because of a cosmetic difference.

 

[Solidus]

well I am sorry you are not going to enjoy this interpretation because of a cosmetic difference.

CC!!!

That is all.

 

[Silver Souper]

Why should people have a problem with it? Should they have a problem with them changing the Joker to a prankster instead of a zodiac killer like he originally was in the 40's?

No change happens. Sorry you don't like it but most seem fine with it. It is not the only thing of the Joker to some people's eyes. There is so much more to the Joker then just being bleached. His mind is the most important aspect. And there are multiple ways he could of been before any deformity. They changed the nature of how he makes himself look more clown like, being a cut rather then bleach, but he still looks like the Joker.

Change happens all the time with characters. And nothing is wrong with change. There is no rule book on it. That is what being an artist is all about.

because there is now an accepted, honed version of the joker's appearance, perfected over the decades. somethings you change, others you don't. the only reason people are rolling with it is because heath looks to be giving a kick ass performance and the movie looks great. it's been long enough that people have accepted the death of an important, fundemental element of this character- his permaskin. i haven't.

you really can't think of a more substantial possible change?!? how about if they dumped him in acid and his skin turned orange??? bottom line is he still LOOKS like the joker

acid turned skin orange would be more consistent with the canon of comics than normal skin with mouth scarring. it would only be a color differential. so he'd be an orange-faced clown freak t:

 

[Mr. Socko]

well I am sorry you are not going to enjoy this interpretation because of a cosmetic difference.

On a surface level, and in this case, I agree completely with your point.

But theoretically, not so much. I'm going to enjoy this Joker.

But yes, it is possible for a cosmetic change to make me not enjoy an interpretation. Say...if Joker wore a brown suit and had orange skin.

 

[Solidus]

because there is now an accepted, honed version of the joker's appearance, perfected over the decades. somethings you change, others you don't. the only reason people are rolling with it is because heath looks to be giving a kick ass performance and the movie looks great. it's been long enough that people have accepted the death of an important, fundemental element of this character- his permaskin. i haven't.

Who says it can't be changed? Batman wore Grey and blue spandex all through out the comics and still does, yet in all the movies he wears Black Armor, and most have accepted and been fine with that......

This as I have said before is like the "organic webshoters" in Spider-Man, some hated that change it was always mechanical. Then Sam changed it, but *well the first two* were quite loved.

 

[CaptainClown]

On a surface level, and in this case, I agree completely with your point.

But theoretically, not so much. I'm going to enjoy this Joker.

But yes, it is possible for a cosmetic change to make me not enjoy an interpretation. Say...if Joker wore a brown suit and had orange skin.

well socko, we clearly know all the deeper attributes that come along with a perma white clown; especially since you and I have seen and even participated in lengthy arguments about it, but overall we just don't know and unless silver has some time machine then I have no idea why he feels that the "make up" has ruined the Joker character. yes that was one giant run on sentence.

 

[Silver Souper]

Well I'm sure not a lot of cops deal with THE most dangerous person who has killed hundreds of people and is absolutely insane that wears make up. But with insane patients or dangerous ones sometimes they try not to get too close right away. They try to ID them by Fingerprints and that is what matters first and foremost.

I mean look at No Country for Old Men, Anton was a nut job, and I bet if the cops knew how dangerous he was if he was wearing make up they might just leave him be until told otherwise.

I just say lets watch the movie and see what transpires. But you seem to want to hate it so go ahead. It aint gonna stop others from seeing it and enjoying it. And trust me I'm a huge Joker fan. Loved him for more then 20 years.

Clowns of the Joker "represent"

No hating here. Can't wait for TDK. Heath looks amazing. But I do hate this decision if indeed there is no twist and he's makeuped. Still can't wait for the film. And we disagree- at some point they're going to get him cleaned up, processed, photographed and ready for jail. If that doesn't happen in this- well let's just call that a convienance.

well I am sorry you are not going to enjoy this interpretation because of a cosmetic difference.

by the same token- are you absolutely going to enjoy this interpretation no matter what? C'mon. We're all rooting for this movie to be great. No one's praying for it to fail and no one should be conditioning themselves to love it. Get excited and go see it with an open mind. It's like some people here are almost afraid to admit to being dissapointed after the long wait. I'll be honest about it. As with Begins- I loved it but that doesn't mean I loved everything about it.

 

[nickyg641]

Why should people have a problem with it? Should they have a problem with them changing the Joker to a prankster instead of a zodiac killer like he originally was in the 40's?

No change happens. Sorry you don't like it but most seem fine with it. It is not the only thing of the Joker to some people's eyes. There is so much more to the Joker then just being bleached. His mind is the most important aspect. And there are multiple ways he could of been before any deformity. They changed the nature of how he makes himself look more clown like, being a cut rather then bleach, but he still looks like the Joker.

Change happens all the time with characters. And nothing is wrong with change. There is no rule book on it. That is what being an artist is all about.

I'll tell you, I don't believe permawhite is the only thing to the Joker. But I think it's up there.

I think your assertion that the the cut smile is just a twist on permawhite is a valid one. I just find that, in my mind, the cut smile, compared to permawhite, is a little mundane. I like the permawhite because it's just so out there. It's a deformity that perfectly matches his personality. Something so weird, and unique, and, at the same time, grim, because it gives him not only the appearance of a clown, but also that of a corpse.

A cut smile seems to be a somewhat watered-down version of that ideal.

I don't mind the cut smile in addition to permawhite. I think that would have been the perfect edge to Nolan's Joker. In fact, I would have really liked it if he was permawhite with the cut smile, and wore black & red makeup to give himself a more clownish appearance. Because, even with the removal of that makeup, he's still every bit as out there.

 

[Solidus]

well socko, we clearly know all the deeper attributes that come along with a perma white clown; especially since you and I have seen and even participated in lengthy arguments about it, but overall we just don't know and unless silver has some time machine then I have no idea why he feels that the "make up" has ruined the Joker character. yes that was one giant run on sentence.

Don't include me in your post thats cool. I guess I'll.....go outside.

 

[Silver Souper]

On a surface level, and in this case, I agree completely with your point.

But theoretically, not so much. I'm going to enjoy this Joker.

But yes, it is possible for a cosmetic change to make me not enjoy an interpretation. Say...if Joker wore a brown suit and had orange skin.

EXACTLY. thank you socko. If this joker had red-devil skin and wore a hypercolor T-shirt and MC Hammer pants, we would not be celebrating the interpretation no matter how grand-slam the performance was.

Who says it can't be changed? Batman wore Grey and blue spandex all through out the comics and still does, yet in all the movies he wears Black Armor, and most have accepted and been fine with that......

This as I have said before is like the "organic webshoters" in Spider-Man, some hated that change it was always mechanical. Then Sam changed it, but *well the first two* were quite loved.

I didn't say it couldn't be changed; I said it shouldn't. I don't care about spidey enough to worry those differences. To me- adaptations should embrace the foundation of these worlds and characters and then expand from there, not start from stripping the characters of their accepted traits.

 

[Solidus]

I'll tell you, I don't believe permawhite is the only thing to the Joker. But I think it's up there.

I think your assertation that the the cut smile is just a twist on permawhite is a valid one. I just find that, in my mind, the cut smile, compared to permawhite, is a little mundane. I like the permawhite because it's just so out there. It's a deformity that perfectly matches his personality. Something so weird, and unique, and, at the same time, grim, because it gives him not only the appearance of a clown, but also that of a corpse.

A cut smile seems to be a somewhat watered-down version of that ideal.

I don't mind the cut smile in addition to permawhite. I think that would have been the perfect edge to Nolan's Joker. In fact, I would have really liked it if he was permawhite with the cut smile, and wore black & red makeup to give himself a more clownish appearance. Because, even with the removal of that makeup, he's still every bit as out there.

Oh I see what you mean bud. And as usual your points are just as valid too. And either way I find it to be an interesting deformity, one that would be interesting to make some one go nuts, and always "joke" about things with a weird permasmile on their face.

But no I do see what you mean, and respect your way of seeing it. To me I just find the new deformity so interesting. And fresh. But yet the core of the spirit of the Joker remains.