World I Miss X-men Evolution!!!!!

[psylockolussus]

i miss x-men evolution hoping to see season5

 

[jaydawg]

You guys all realize that until the show ditched the whole high school bull****, it sucked far more than TT? It took 2 seasons of crap to make a DECENT show. And people are already *****ing about The Batman.

 

[Kmack]

Because The Batman is horrible, and it did first 2 seasons were not as good as the others but that doesn't mean they "sucked" I thought they were rather good....

 

[jaydawg]

They were horrible and you know it. Save for the 2 part finales of each season and that Arcade episode, it was really, really bad. So 5 decent episodes in 2 season. Yeah, it was great......

 

[usagicassidy]

Oh my god. They weren't horrible. Horrible is Wiggles. And the last seasons of Evolution were fabulous in my opinion.

 

[Kmack]

I agree!

 

[Dylliel]

So buy the DVDs. That's what I did. ._.;
​

 

[Dread]

You guys all realize that until the show ditched the whole high school bull****, it sucked far more than TT? It took 2 seasons of crap to make a DECENT show. And people are already *****ing about The Batman.

They were horrible and you know it. Save for the 2 part finales of each season and that Arcade episode, it was really, really bad. So 5 decent episodes in 2 season. Yeah, it was great......

To each their own. I just feel the need to reply because you compare Evolution to "The Batman", which I don't think is fair.

The main criticism against Evolution usually was, as you noted it, "the high school bull****". Yet, for those who didn't want said bull, we had 5 seasons of the 90's X-Men cartoon (a classic in it's own right, on the same shelf as B:TAS and TMNT). Unfortunately, most fans in their comic adaptations want nothing new and only want near-blind repetition of the comic material again...and again...and again. I wonder how many times folks can see "The Dark Pheonix" story happen. This then is what brought out the hate of Evolution. It wasn't a blind carbon copy of what worked before. It dared to try something new.

True, it was far from perfect. I could write a long post regarding the fundamental flaws throughout the series. But I could also write a long post regarding it's strengths.

It revamped not only character ages and costumes, but the HISTORY of the X-Men as a team for the post "X-Men" movie crowd. It was a whole new continuity and universe, one made in many ways simplier. The characters, for better or worse were boiled down to their essence and revisioned from there. Some were actually quite faithful to some of their teenage counterparts (remember, some of the X-Men actually WERE teenagers when they joined). Others were fresh takes, most notably Rogue (who, alas, went on to hog much of the spotlight, even moreso than Wolverine). It started on a good foundation. I'd dare say the Evolution universe dared to be more original than a lot of the Ultimate X-Men's universe, frankly, in some ways.

The first season to me was a good foundation, with some core strengths and stories, but I felt it did not fully tap it's potential, and the 2-part finale to Season One, "The Cauldron", I felt was sub-par. And of course Spyke brought on more ire than Bendis killing as many Avengers as he liked.

The second season I will admit wasn't much of an improvement as they attempted to fill the screen with additional 12 or so mutants while the core 7 had not been fleshed yet. It therefore was cluttered with too many mutants vying for space and thus about half of the episodes were hit-or-miss. However, the last half of Season Two improved, and the finale for that season, "Day of Reckoning", brought on excellance that would continue for the rest of the 3rd season.

The third season ended the old status quo of mutants being a secret and established them into the public. Risks became more real and the story had more maturity and mood. Barring some stumbles it ended well.

The last season, unfortunately, had too many one-shot episodes that merely introduced new characters, rather than flesh old ones. X23 quickly became boring and Legion was a bit pointless. Still, their rendition of Apocalypse I loved not because of his power level (which is all that matters to 65% of fans), but his character, who was more than a standard "omnipotent villian" but actually felt he was doing what he had to. The series finale ended on a bang with an emotional few minutes that forever will be cemented into my memory.

I think one more season could have been excellent. But it is not to be.

"The Batman", on the other hand, offers us nothing we have not seen before and attempts to revamp Batman and his rogues for an attention starved generation raised on PS2 and dubbed, imported, merchadise-peddling anime, or at least it written like it is. It rarely has any depth, has poor lines, and even it's action oriented focus stumbles. Out of 9 episodes I can think of maybe 3 that were any good. Evolution fared much better with me in it's first season.

But...to each their own. Folks hated Evolution then and still do now. Much like anything else, we all have varying tastes.

I don't like Evolution because it was flawless, because it sure wasn't. I liked it because it was original, unique, and tried to do something new. I'll remember more of the emotions and the revamps in the series/universe moreso than the battles or costumes. But I can be funny that way.

 

[Kmack]

Whoa, you people are the first that I've encountered in my life that has hated X-men Evolution...and you talk as if it was hated by the majority of the X fans. Which I can assure you is false (on these boards anyway). Back in the "good ol days" when the X-men Evolution forum was still around I never ran across a negative thread. And I'm not saying that all X-men fans liked it, but most of the regulars in the X-forums had nothing but good things to say about the show and how they were dying with anticipation for the next episodes....

 

[Dread]

Oh, back in the "ol' days" when we had an Evolution forum, we got plenty of posters who didn't like the show, hated it, and would either bash it sporatically or such. They were a minority, though.

Most of those who didn't like Evolution didn't watch much of it and didn't post about it often.

But, yes, I have been aware of posters around here who didn't like it for a while. The largest complaints then, as now, were, "I hated the high school crap" and "it wasn't the 90's series", as well as "They're all kids, but some aren't...arrgh!"

Everyone's entitled to an opinion.

 

[usagicassidy]

My biggest complaint has always been with Spyke. Other than that I loved it!

The episodes with Magneto and Sabertooth, Gambit, Pyro, and Colossus...what season was it in? And was it the beginning, middle, or end of the season>?

 

[Kmack]

I agree, my only complaint also lied in Spyke...such an uninteresting (and just plain horrible) character.

 

[TheVileOne]

X-men Evolution showed signs of improvement and maturity in the second and third seasons. I'd credit some of that to Curt Geda who became a director for the show around that time. To me, it still lacked the sophistication of the 90's X-men series, which I thought was able to be pretty bold for a Saturday morning cartoon at times.

X-men Evolution in the end had 4 seasons, 52 episodes, which isn't bad. At least the series had somewhat of a formal ending, even though there were plot threads implied or hinted at if they so decided to continue. I think fans should be happy that the series didn't end on a cliffhanger like Exo-Squad whom's season 2 ending was pretty heinous because there was nothing after it.

 

[Kmack]

What's Exo-Squad

 

[Dread]

Exo-Squad was a cartoon series that ran in 1993-1994. It was based in the future where hunger and war were eliminated, until the genetically created "servant" race, Neo-Sapiens, start a war for dominance. I never watched it but TvTome lists it as having 52 episodes, 49 of which aired in the second season.

usagicassidy, the episodes with those characters you listed were "Day of Reckoning" Parts 1 & 2 from the end of Season Two; that was the 2-part season finale.

Spyke was usually the symbol of hatred on the Evolution board. I feel the writers for a while didn't know what to do with him, and as such he remained a pile of sterotypes and tidbits until he followed in the steps of his inspiration, Marrow, and joined the Morlocks.

And of course, the initially interesting, but overall bland, X23 has been tapped by Marvel, likely seeking their own version of a Harley Quinn. Quinn's legacy is safe.

 

[Kmack]

I HATED X23 WORST CHARACTER EVER!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel that I could endure D.E.R.B.I.E. even more than her

 

[jaydawg]

It was the High School thing that bothered me the most. Just the logicstics of living at a School and going to a High School... what the hell? Sabertooth was butchard and it was full of guitared After school special subplots. I didnt mind that they were in high school, because like you stated, they were teens when the X-men were created. But so much of it was like, Does he like me? Does he like her? Shadowcat was written as a typical valley girl. No one talks like that. If I wanna see school problems, I'll go watch Spider-man. If I wanna see oppression, I'll go watch X-men. The series became decent overall once 3rd and 4th season happened and started getting more in tune with the defining themes in the comics, but theres no denying it, most of season 1 and 2 episodes were just plain bad. Particularly season 2 in which the team was overloaded (JLU anyone?). I respect if for trying to be different, dont get me wrong, but it was so different that things were just bad. Look at TMNT. Its completly different than the 80s show and totally kicks that shows ash.

 

[Dread]

You're right, Season Two was overloaded with too many mutants. That was it's main problem and the episodes were hit-or-miss that season. There are a few episodes from Season Two I just want to forget...forever. But it picked up for the finale that season and went on from there. And there were some notable episodes in Season Two, even though it was the worst season of Evolution, IMO.

The "valley girl" thing for Kitty was annoying, but she WAS a major ditz in the comics when she joined at 13. Anyone remember some of her Sprite get-ups? She needed time to get smarter and she did in the show. She was leading a team of mutants in the series finale. Plus, she hadn't seen animation since the "Pryde of the X-Men" TV pilot. Evolution allowed for a lot of characters that the 90's series more or less ignored to get a chance for a new look, or just to be animated. Nightcrawler was a main star in Evo, while in the 90's series he was in all of 2 episodes (3 if you count an alternate reality, non-speaking cameo). Iceman was in one episode of the 90's series, barring flashbacks. In Evolution he had a few pivotal episodes.

As for the high school stuff, it depends on your tastes. I think a lot of people found it more relatable. It allowed them some time to be like normal teenagers before the spit started hitting the fan; but the X-Universe and it's fan are usually used to overloads of angst and darkness, so I can understand many folks not liking those bits. Functionally, it did seem a little lame to put the X-Men in the same school as the Brotherhood, but I saw it as practicing what they preached; getting out of the Mansion and INTERACTING with people, or at least learning to, as well as keeping your enemies close (as the saying goes).

That stuff may have also allowed Evolution to be a hit for an audience no one anticipated; girls. The ratings at the time showed that it was a strong seller for girls aged 9-15. Considering that half the characters were girls and Rogue got the most focus of any X-Man, it's no wonder. I don't think that fact should be overlooked so easily.

And Sabretooth wasn't much better in the 90's series, frankly. He was a little creepier there, but he didn't show up too much, either. Maybe 5 episodes. Although he did lay out Wolverine in Season One. Sabretooth never made or broke anything for me anyway. He's pretty much there to be Wolverine's enemy, and that's that.

Plus, TMNT honestly had an easier time beating the 80's series fundamentally than Evolution had of beating out the classic, beloved, 90's series, of which it was always in the shadow of.

Do I think TMNT is better than Evolution? Yes. I remember being more frustrated with Evolution and disapointed in it more often than I was/am with TMNT. But I still liked Evolution quite a bit.

 

[jaydawg]

On your Iceman point, the one episode he was in was classic. The sole thing I remember Iceman doing in the several XE episodes he was in was watching Beast's back in the original 5 X-men episode. True XE did allow several minor characters spotlight, which isnt a bad thing, but it didnt really help out the show. Who honestly cared for Beserker? Boom Boom? Multipule Man (who was nothing more than a running joke that got old extremly fast.... I mean bumping him made him use his power....every god damn episode....)? BTW I'm not trying to measure XE to the classic 90s show, but it was hardly up to par with its constant quality.

 

[Dread]

In Evolution, Iceman seemed to be the unofficial "leader" of the "New Mutant" type recruits. He really shined in Season Three when he hung around the core X-Men to rescue their allies in "Day of Recovery" and then fighting Juggernaut in an excellent battle in "Stuff of Heroes". And yes, allying with the other "classic" X-Men in "Under Lock and Key".

A constant figure throughout a few seasons who had his ups and downs, or one sole episode, then never to be seen again. I'll take the former.

Boom-Boom was a waste, I'll admit, an annoying character who sadly got her own episode. Berserker was stale and his connection to the Morlocks was unrevealed (although in canon he WAS one). But while Multiple was a 12 year old kid in Evolution, in the 90's series, he...was in one episode, too. That very same one with Iceman, where the X-Men battled X-Factor.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the 90's series. But Evolution at least allowed many classic mutants a chance to be on TV, and even to have a few moments. I can recall two memories of Multiple from Evolution; when he tackled who he thought was Sabretooth fearlessly in "Self Posessed" and helping Boom-Boom (they REALLY should have went with her other codename, Meltdown) fight a posessed Xavier in "Ascension Part 2".

It's apples and oranges, and in the eyes of some fans, a no-win battle. Had Evolution been more or less the SAME cartoon as the 90's series, all we would have heard was, "Why are they just ripping off the old show" or "why didn't they just bring the old show back?" It would have been ripped for lack of originality. Instead, it's ripped for not being a carbon copy of the 90's show. As I said above, some fans just want the same thing over...and over...and over. They want to see the Pheonix Saga done 5 different ways. Days of Future Past 4 different ways. Over and over and over. This recycling of stuff is really what can kill comic-related mediums.

Evolution wasn't quite a 100% success, sure. It had many flaws and blunders. But it was something unique. And I feel it managed to carve it's own niche in the history of animated comic cartoons, not just in the shadow of the 90's series.

The 90's series had a lot of maturity and managed to include all the sci-fi, hokey bits of the X-Men comics (like aliens and time-travel) and managed to make it all work with flowing storyarcs. On the other hand, after Season 2 Wolverine pretty much was the star, and many characters were completely ignored or used rarely, despite their roles in the X-mythos. I also recall the epic battles a lot more than the interpersonal relations for a good reason.

Evolution I feel was more about interpersonal stuff than fighting. I'll remember their revamped Nightcrawler and his relationship with Kitty and then Amanda longer than I'll recall anyone he beat up.

Trying to compare the two for me is like comparing two different things, because they're very distinct, each on their own path.

 

[Jess]

Hey, I got season one box set on DVD. In "Shadowed Past" at the beginning, when Rogue is having the dream she sees Mystique running from the castle calling Magneto a monster and him chasing ehr. I dont know if this was something made for the show that just wasnt fully explained or of their is any history in the comics with this particular event. I know its her son, but did Magneto do somethign to maker him blue, what would he have done to him that made her so frightened,a nd why would she still end up working for him 15 years later. Hmmm.

 

[Dread]

Magneto likely tested an early version of his "genetic enhancer" on Kurt, since that is the machine he made in the season finale of the first season. As for why Mystique would continue to work for him years later...I don't know. One of the flaws of the series is that a lot of the focus was slanted towards the teenagers, and a lot of interesting bits from the adults were ignored.

 

[Jess]

Oh. I spoke to soon. Just watched the spcial features. producer Boyd Kirkland said in the castle it was puposely unclear because they were doing something that wasnt true to thye comics to a tee. But he said Magneto awoken Kurt's x-gene as a baby.

 

[Dread]

Which makes sense, therefore, that he tested an early prototype for his Genetic Enhancer on baby Kurt. That was always my assumption, since that machine would turn up shortly after "Shadowed Past" aired.

 

[apexone09]

Yeah, now I've seen commercials for some stupid Robot Monkeys ? How stupid.
Atleast the original 90's version of X-Men is still on.

Really?? What channel in SCV can u watch it on?? I wanna watch!!